Iran Accuses US and Israel

[torahboy]

I don't want to diminish the suffering of anyone.............

 

 

Your posts make sure that you don't.

[silverlining]

I don't want to diminish the suffering of anyone, but isn't that kind of the point of war, to do more damage to your opponents than they manage to do to you?

 

I mean, so far as I can see, nobody here is complaining that there were fifteen times more dead Germans after WWII than Brits.

 

 

I bet no Jews were complaining. The Germans were *beastly* towards the Jews. Really, really horrible.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Fair enough chaps, I consider myself educated re their missiles, although they're fired indiscriminately and if they wipe out an Israeli family I'm sure they're delighted. I struggle to see the difference between them and Israelis' delight at having a Palestinian family wiped out by their government. I don't understand how any neutral can be on anyone's side here. It's all fucked.

 

There's a reason why people side with the Palestinians, mate. The Israelis are illegally stealing their land and homes, controlling how they live (right down to the water and food supplies), and killing women and children from the sky.

 

It's a tragedy what's happening to the Palestinians. Israel is a nuclear armed super-power backed by the world's only hyper-power, the Palestinians struggle to feed themselves. Gaza is a hellish place.

 

I don't support Hamas, either. They're cunts. However, you don't get good democratic results in areas under siege. You don't get peace out of a swamp of hatred like that. You get anger at injustice.

 

OCZ is right about 'Bibi'. Total cunt of a man and a lunatic. The funny thing is that Jews were historically left wing, socialist (communist, even). The unfunny thing is the Zionist regime in Israel and around the world are mainly not even Jews.

[Section_31]

Shalom

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Shalom

 

Downhill?

[KMD7]

There's a reason why people side with the Palestinians, mate. The Israelis are illegally stealing their land and homes, controlling how they live (right down to the water and food supplies), and killing women and children from the sky.

 

It's a tragedy what's happening to the Palestinians. Israel is a nuclear armed super-power backed by the world's only hyper-power, the Palestinians struggle to feed themselves. Gaza is a hellish place.

 

I don't support Hamas, either. They're cunts. However, you don't get good democratic results in areas under siege. You don't get peace out of a swamp of hatred like that. You get anger at injustice.

 

OCZ is right about 'Bibi'. Total cunt of a man and a lunatic. The funny thing is that Jews were historically left wing, socialist (communist, even). The unfunny thing is the Zionist regime in Israel and around the world are mainly not even Jews.

 

Great post Hank. In the bit in bold are you referring to Christian Zionists or something even more sinister?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Great post Hank. In the bit in bold are you referring to Christian Zionists or something more sinister?

 

Christian and Atheists. Zionism, to me, is fucking grim and sinister anyway.

[vanball]

They're probably not much different from those of the Palestinians'. There's no 'right' side here. They're all human beings with children. Because one of their governments is a set of cunts doesn't mean the others aren't.

 

You left out the part where Hamas doesn't acknowledge the other side's right to exist as a state. The entire conflict rests on this.

 

Also, as many muslims have pointed out, school age kids are raised thinking that Jews eat babies.

 

There may not be a right side, it does take two to tango, but one side is working on the right to live and the other is not. One side questions itself constantly, the other side kills people who may disagree.

One side has contibuted and continues to contribute to advances in medicine and technology, the other wants to import rockets instead of getting on with their lives.

 

Both sides have their nutcases, granted - that is common everywhere.

[torahboy]

See Mark Regev has joined the forum.

 

One side has for over sixty years had their lands confiscated, their businesses destroyed, their homes demolished, had laws denying them re-entry to the land of their birth while immigrants from all over the world are welcomed as 'returning' natives, been corralled into a ghetto and are constantly harrassed by Israeli police and military. I suppose they don't have much time to develop their 'medicine and technology' as they try to survive the embargoes and sanctions placed upon their government by the whizz kids of Israel.

 

That's only one side of the story. For the other side's story just watch any news bulletin on the TV. Unless you've got Al Jazeera.

[stringvest]

You're way off the mark there. I don't believe I painted Israel as the victim.

 

Both countries have taken civilian casualties because they're both run by a set of fucking arseholes. But the right on brigade seemingly choose to ignore Israeli civilian casualties.

 

Fuck em eh, they're only yids.

 

We could name the three of them if you want Lurtzy. They have been creating the headlines after all

[stringvest]

You left out the part where Hamas doesn't acknowledge the other side's right to exist as a state. The entire conflict rests on this.

 

Also, as many muslims have pointed out, school age kids are raised thinking that Jews eat babies.

 

There may not be a right side, it does take two to tango, but one side is working on the right to live and the other is not. One side questions itself constantly, the other side kills people who may disagree.

One side has contibuted and continues to contribute to advances in medicine and technology, the other wants to import rockets instead of getting on with their lives.

 

Both sides have their nutcases, granted - that is common everywhere.

 

you're as much a victim of the US/Israeli propaganda machine as those simple headed muslims you're having a go at.

 

One side is killing hundreds of people through discriminate use of high tech weaponry, the other has killed three through indiscriminate use of low tech weaponry. The US has provided Israel with the weaponry to kill hundreds of innocent humans with their precision bombing, the Iranians and Egyptians have provided the fireworks to make Israeli lives a misery. Both sides have their nutcases. Only one side has the means to kill hundreds of people, and the brass neck to attempt to take the moral high ground.

[stringvest]

You left out the part where Hamas doesn't acknowledge the other side's right to exist as a state. The entire conflict rests on this.

 

only to liars, simpletons and the spoon fed American public.

 

[Jonjo Baldy]

I don't want to diminish the suffering of anyone, but isn't that kind of the point of war, to do more damage to your opponents than they manage to do to you?

 

I mean, so far as I can see, nobody here is complaining that there were fifteen times more dead Germans after WWII than Brits. Indeed, I'd go so far as to suggest that most people here would likely consider it a good thing that only half a million Brits were killed.

 

It is, hence why war by nature is indiscriminate, people are fighting to survive or to win so they will do anything to meet their goal. But that is a generic scenario and it doesn't make it right for someone to do whatever they like i.e. kill babies, torture, cut of water supplies etc. But you have to look at each conflict on an individual basis and the 'story' behind it.

[Jonjo Baldy]

You left out the part where Hamas doesn't acknowledge the other side's right to exist as a state. The entire conflict rests on this.

 

Also, as many muslims have pointed out, school age kids are raised thinking that Jews eat babies.

 

There may not be a right side, it does take two to tango, but one side is working on the right to live and the other is not. One side questions itself constantly, the other side kills people who may disagree.

One side has contibuted and continues to contribute to advances in medicine and technology, the other wants to import rockets instead of getting on with their lives.

 

Both sides have their nutcases, granted - that is common everywhere.

 

The entire conflict rests on this? LOL whats pill you been taking? What about the immigrants occupying the land acknowledge it doesn't belong to them and they stole it off from a group of people? The only time peace looked like a reality, some extreme zionist nutjob went and assassinated the Israeli PM, they refuse to acknowledge Palestine and its people.

 

It's also laughable that you expect a group of oppressed people living under siege, without a proper state or government, and are bombed back into the stone ages every year to contribute to medicine and technology. Whilst Israel that is entirely funded by America flourishes... Israel wouldn't even be able to function without the aid they get from the 'great' U S of A, rather they would be joining the Palestinians in circumcising themselves with sharpened stones.

[Stu Monty]

SL applying his massively superior intellect to throwaway pisstaking, and not bothering to respond to the gaping holes of moral logic and consistency in his views when pointed out.

 

Standard.

[stringvest]

they certainly wouldn't all be two fridge households.

[stringvest]

SL applying his massively superior intellect to throwaway pisstaking, and not bothering to respond to the gaping holes of moral logic and consistency in his views when pointed out.

 

Standard.

 

I think you may be expecting too much.

[vanball]

you're as much a victim of the US/Israeli propaganda machine as those simple headed muslims you're having a go at.

 

One side is killing hundreds of people through discriminate use of high tech weaponry, the other has killed three through indiscriminate use of low tech weaponry. The US has provided Israel with the weaponry to kill hundreds of innocent humans with their precision bombing, the Iranians and Egyptians have provided the fireworks to make Israeli lives a misery. Both sides have their nutcases. Only one side has the means to kill hundreds of people, and the brass neck to attempt to take the moral high ground.

 

Just a minute - ask yourself why? Forget about who has what weapons (the israelis really don't need the US for weapons, I don't think) - your focus on big dog little dog is misleading. The reason for this conflict is that Israel is a state that is not acknowedged as having a right to exist by the Palestinians and they won't stop with the rockets etc. Further, they are being used by the Iranians but lets ignore that for now.

 

Are you saying that whatever the differential in strength, that the Israelis should ignore the thousands of the rockets and bombs being lobbed at them? What would you do in this situation then - leave your country to them, and where would you go? Seriously, what would you do if you were Israel?

[RedRazor]

Yeh cos all those illegal immigrants living on stolen land with one of the strongest nuclear and heavily armed armies in the world are being bombed back into the stone ages and dying in the hundreds by the all mighty and powerful palestinians with their home made rockets that either get shot down or fall into the sea.

 

Glad to see more and more people realising the truth of the ZioNazi's, something the biased fucktards in the mainstream media will never show.

 

Poor old Israel always the victim. I'm sure Netanyahu is well pleased that his election campaign has a head start with the blood of those nasty arab goy babies.

 

Home made rockets that can target Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? ermmmm

 

As usual lots of finger pointing and not one realistic solution offered by anyone. There is no solution - the Israelis won't give land back to the Palestinians and the Palestinians won't rest until they get back the land that has been taken.

 

It will go on until, one day, the Israelis lose a war. Any guesses what might happen to the Jews at that point? I doubt that it will be very nice.

[ChippyTeaFriday]

Heavy shit this for 3am. It's all a set up anyway i recon. Haven't the yanks given Israeli this iron dome missile system that shoots enemy missiles down. Not much point attacking Iran if it doesn't work. What better way to test the fucker than get Hamas lads to throw a few hundred mini rockets over the border so the Israelis can have a practise. That Tim Marshall bloke off sky can fuck off, I can do his job piss of piss

[ODZ]

only to liars, simpletons and the spoon fed American public.

 

 

Since people like to throw this one, thought I'd clear this up a bit.

 

This scheme is very misleading, the guy who made it did a pretty good job of propaganda. The 1946 map doesn't mean anything, it was never in a partition plan. It's just a map depicting Jewish settlements. White marks areas of Jewish populations and green marks areas where there are no Jewish settlements. That doesn't mean Arabs were settling in all of those areas marked in green. The negev for example (the south) was hardly populated at all, but of course it's convenient to make this the first map to add the dramatic effect of Jews stealing land from the Arabs.

 

The 1947 map is the UN partition plan, a plan Jews accepted and the Arabs didn't. The Arabs instead went on to start a war in order to eradicate the Jews and wipe off them of the map. They failed and the lines that were drawn at the end of the war were the 1967 borders. West Bank was controlled by Jordan and Gaza was taken by Egypt. I wonder why Jordan and Egypt didn't grant the Palestinians that lived within their own borders independence? Isn't that weird? They basically had the entire West Bank and Gaza under Arab control and for some reason, Palestinians were occupied by their fellow Arab nations and nobody gave a fuck...

 

The map in 2010 doesn't really mean anything either, it just marks the land that is in full control of the Palestinian authority (by the way, Gaza is completely 'free' of Jewish settlements, so that's important to note). It's not a demographic map, it's more of a legal authority map. It's a bit misleading to think that all the bits in gray in the West Bank are filled with huge Jewish settlements that Israel are occupying. In a two state solution, Palestine will get 100% of the land in the West Bank, 2% will be lands swapped in a 1-1 ratio, a principle agreed by Ehud Olmert and Abu Mazen. That will only require 100,000 Israeli's to relocate. That's not as daunting as what the map suggests.

[stringvest]

 

Home made rockets that can target Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? ermmmm

 

As usual lots of finger pointing and not one realistic solution offered by anyone. There is no solution - the Israelis won't give land back to the Palestinians and the Palestinians won't rest until they get back the land that has been taken.

 

It will go on until' date=' one day, the Israelis lose a war. Any guesses what might happen to the Jews at that point? I doubt that it will be very nice.[/quote']

 

They'll bombard the Ham and High with letters of indignation, of that I'm fairly sure. And they will be forced from the land that they forced the Palestinians from, I'm fairly certain of that. But they won't be 'wiped out' or annihilated.

[VladimirIlyich]

 

Home made rockets that can target Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? ermmmm

 

As usual lots of finger pointing and not one realistic solution offered by anyone. There is no solution - the Israelis won't give land back to the Palestinians and the Palestinians won't rest until they get back the land that has been taken.

 

It will go on until' date=' one day, the Israelis lose a war. Any guesses what might happen to the Jews at that point? I doubt that it will be very nice.[/quote']

 

That's a fair point about 'homemade' rockets reaching Tel Aviv as its a fair distance isn't it? But the fact remains that Israel could prevent or stop most of their punishment by simply sitting down and negotiating rather than using all its western provided toys on a small group of mostly normal people who hate them partly for not simply doing that.

 

This is largely a one sided conflict but its one which has the potential to cause bigger and more devestating ones.

[Stu Monty]

Just a minute - ask yourself why? Forget about who has what weapons (the israelis really don't need the US for weapons, I don't think) - your focus on big dog little dog is misleading. The reason for this conflict is that Israel is a state that is not acknowedged as having a right to exist by the Palestinians and they won't stop with the rockets etc. Further, they are being used by the Iranians but lets ignore that for now.

 

Are you saying that whatever the differential in strength, that the Israelis should ignore the thousands of the rockets and bombs being lobbed at them? What would you do in this situation then - leave your country to them, and where would you go? Seriously, what would you do if you were Israel?

 

If you're the superpower and you occupy and butalise people then they get to fight back. When you're the massive underdog getting crushed people will frown a lot less on you biting and kicking the big guy in the balls. If they were to stop with the collective punishmnet (a war crime) and the Palestinians continue to be cunts then they've got a point. When they try to use the massive power differential to force a solution other than brutality then they'll command more respect. One of the sad things is that the more Israel acts the cuntthe less chance the progressive Arab voices have of making any impact. Like the US in Pakistan it leads inevitably to the extremists getting more and more traction and influence.

 

Also, the idea that a lot of the powerful people in Israel want the conflict to stop is nonsense. Israel's arms and security trade is booming because they've got the best R&D testing lab in the world.

 

Let's clarify one more time though: these people dying now aren't dying for security reasons, they're dying because there's an election coming up.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Stu Monty

[stringvest]

 

Since people like to throw this one' date=' thought I'd clear this up a bit.

 

This scheme is very misleading, the guy who made it did a pretty good job of propaganda. The 1946 map doesn't mean anything, it was never in a partition plan. It's just a map depicting Jewish settlements. White marks areas of Jewish populations and green marks areas where there are no Jewish settlements. That doesn't mean Arabs were settling in all of those areas marked in green. The negev for example (the south) was hardly populated at all, but of course it's convenient to make this the first map to add the dramatic effect of Jews stealing land from the Arabs.

 

The 1947 map is the UN partition plan, a plan Jews accepted and the Arabs didn't. The Arabs instead went on to start a war in order to eradicate the Jews and wipe off them of the map. They failed and the lines that were drawn at the end of the war were the 1967 borders. West Bank was controlled by Jordan and Gaza was taken by Egypt. I wonder why Jordan and Egypt didn't grant the Palestinians that lived within their own borders independence? Isn't that weird? They basically had the entire West Bank and Gaza under Arab control and for some reason, Palestinians were occupied by their fellow Arab nations and nobody gave a fuck...

 

The map in 2010 doesn't really mean anything either, it just marks the land that is in full control of the Palestinian authority (by the way, Gaza is completely 'free' of Jewish settlements, so that's important to note). It's not a demographic map, it's more of a legal authority map. It's a bit misleading to think that all the bits in gray in the West Bank are filled with huge Jewish settlements that Israel are occupying. In a two state solution, Palestine will get 100% of the land in the West Bank, 2% will be lands swapped in a 1-1 ratio, a principle agreed by Ehud Olmert and Abu Mazen. That will only require 100,000 Israeli's to relocate. That's not as daunting as what the map suggests.[/quote']

 

We've got maps like that in Europe, you know, legal authority maps. They represent the areas controlled by legal authorities representing the people living in them.

 

It will be fascinating to see the same map in 30 years time.