Man City (H) - Sun 10th Mar 2024 (3:45pm)

[manwiththestick]

52 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Anywhere else on the pitch and it’s a free kick and a yellow card. Cunt ref 

If that was Diaz on Rodri at the other end, Oliver is giving a pen,  I'm certain of that.

[halewood pete]

1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

The bullshit justification of it all just makes it worse “he got a touch on the ball first” when everyone has seen that a) he probably didn’t and b) that hasn’t mattered in dozens of decisions already this season.

Just call it for what it is - Oliver didn’t give it and the VAR didn’t send him to look at it, because they both shit out of the decision as it was in the last minute.

Less to do with the last minute and everything to do with being fucking corrupt

[an tha]

What a load of bollocks here from Gallagher.

 

Just absolute bullshit - very eye opening into how badly he and his mates think.

 

I have sat and watched that video and it just staggers me.

 

Just can't have any faith in people who think like this - which lets face it we all know his mates still reffing do.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13075492/ref-watch-why-var-backed-referees-call-to-deny-liverpool-last-gasp-penalty-against-man-city

[Barrington Womble]

5 hours ago, an tha said:

What a load of bollocks here from Gallagher.

 

Just absolute bullshit - very eye opening into how badly he and his mates think.

 

I have sat and watched that video and it just staggers me.

 

Just can't have any faith in people who think like this - which lets face it we all know his mates still reffing do.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13075492/ref-watch-why-var-backed-referees-call-to-deny-liverpool-last-gasp-penalty-against-man-city

 

 

"The pictures will support whichever way he goes". What a telling line. And there you have in a nutshell, what I and many others have been saying for a long time. VAR exists to allow the officials to get to whichever outcome they want. 

[Rushies tash]

7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

The issue for me is the English press. They are petrified of the narrative that there may be corruption amongst referees. The know a very large and vocal part of the English football fan base believes refereeing integrity being a problem is an issue for Johnny foreigner. And anyone who suggests otherwise, is a tin foil hat merchant. So the align themselves time and time again with the whole idea it can't possibly be  corrupt, it's just shit. Listen to any of those weekly podcasts, the times, guardian, athletic etc, they're all the same. Until one of them stands up and says "can't we at least remove the impression of a conflict of interests", this is going to just continue. I find it all quite depressing. 

 

The Romans had the arena to keep the plebs distracted - we have VAR.

[Redder Lurtz]

17 hours ago, col06 said:

Wasn't he one of the refs that went over to ref a game makes you think

At least twice. Business class flights and a nice fat wedge, all paid for by man city owner sheikh mansour. 

[Dapower]

Kyle walker doing the media rounds for the cheats saying how well Oliver reffed it

[Vincent Vega]

It’s quite mad that a Man United fan can see exactly what is going on and doesn’t allow his bias to excuse what is the referees in this league blatantly fucking us over.

 

[Redder Lurtz]

7 hours ago, an tha said:

What a load of bollocks here from Gallagher.

 

Just absolute bullshit - very eye opening into how badly he and his mates think.

 

I have sat and watched that video and it just staggers me.

 

Just can't have any faith in people who think like this - which lets face it we all know his mates still reffing do.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13075492/ref-watch-why-var-backed-referees-call-to-deny-liverpool-last-gasp-penalty-against-man-city

 

Everything in that article stinks. Look at the state of the contradiction here:

 

"You also think Havertz goes over Collins' leg - when you see it from an alternative angle it's not the case. But baring in mind the referee decides no penalty. The VAR has two decisions - is it a penalty? No.

 

"VAR says no penalty, and he cannot recommend a second yellow card. The only time he can say it's simulation is if the penalty is awarded. There is no halfway house, it's all or nothing.

 

"I think there is enough contact - if you're going to send a player off for diving it's got to be a clear dive."

[The wanderer]

9 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Really good this, thanks.

[Redder Lurtz]

Best part of 30 years ago when I studied law, I remember an absolute fundamental of constitutional law was that in a public or governing body not only should there be no bias in decision making but that there should be no suspicion, or reason to have suspicion of, bias. Premier league referees on Manchester City's payroll absolutely pisses in the face of that fundamental. They're fucking laughing at us. 

[Dapower]

17 minutes ago, Dapower said:

Kyle walker doing the media rounds for the cheats saying how well Oliver reffed it

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2024/03/kyle-walker-claims-michael-oliver-showed-character-in-liverpool-penalty-decision/

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I'd be more than happy if the VAR simply just pointed out to Oliver "you do know the defenders studs landed forcefully in the middle of the attackers chest. ". There should never be a time when studding someone in the middle of the chest isn't a foul. Those simple words would force Oliver to give a pen.. but none of the refs.csre about getting to the right decision. The care about protecting each other, they care about being seen as it's their game, they want to remind all the participants, there'd be no game without them. 

It's one reason why I think VAR should be staffed by people who aren't on the roster for reffing Premier League games.  It's like getting schoolkids to mark each other's homework; I'll give you an A in Maths and you give me an A in Geography.

[VladimirIlyich]

9 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That mantra of "he got the ball first" is the reason I went to look up the actual rules.  Turns out I had remembered correctly: the definition of what is or isn't a foul makes fuck all reference to who got the ball.

Is correct.

[Carra_is_legend]

11 hours ago, Lee909 said:

Michael Oliver,Darren England and Dan Cook all with a nice midweek paid trip to tbe UAE. 

 

Arrive back on Friday morning

 

Saturday

Oliver gives no red card for this

 

 

 

Sunday

Cook and England on VAR and we play Spurs away. They demand Curtis tackle I relooked at and only show contact not the foot sliding over the ball and then disallow Diaz goal. 

 

A week later Oliver intervenes to give City the softest of penalties in against the red mancs

 

 

 

Don't like conspiracies much but when it quacks

 

Them officials have taken money from Cities owners and have given decisions that benefit them all season. Even if its not a bribe its influencing them to not bite the hand that's feeds them

 

 

Look at the reaction of the City player near the half way line. Even he thought it was going to be red.

[Code]

How come Ederson did not get sent off?

[Jose Jones]

13 minutes ago, Code said:

How come Ederson did not get sent off?

They changed the rule a couple of years ago as penalty and a red card was deemed too much punishment.

[Carra_is_legend]

1 hour ago, Redder Lurtz said:

Best part of 30 years ago when I studied law, I remember an absolute fundamental of constitutional law was that in a public or governing body not only should there be no bias in decision making but that there should be no suspicion, or reason to have suspicion of, bias. Premier league referees on Manchester City's payroll absolutely pisses in the face of that fundamental. They're fucking laughing at us. 

 

PGMOL in many ways, is an encapsulation of this country. They will do what the fuck they want.

 

Qataris are cunts, they kill gays, they treat workers like shit, but its ok for Charles to go and take suitcase full of cash because there is no suggestion that the money is illegal. Its ok for Neville and Beckham to go there and take money during the WC. Its ok for BBC and Linekar to go there and take money but look, we are not showing you the opening ceremony, we are protesting you know!

 

It is ok for Saudi to take over a PL club because they can bully Boris. It is ok for a chancellor's wife to not pay millions in tax with the non-dom status but hey ho, it is an issue when he wants to be the PM. 

[Pidge]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's one reason why I think VAR should be staffed by people who aren't on the roster for reffing Premier League games.  It's like getting schoolkids to mark each other's homework; I'll give you an A in Maths and you give me an A in Geography.

The maddening thing for me is who does this situation look better to? Who does this blatant incompetence appeal to? Put the conflict of interest stuff to one side for a second, the culture must be so fucked up if "I wasn't contradicted" is more important than "we made the right call".

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Redder Lurtz said:

Best part of 30 years ago when I studied law, I remember an absolute fundamental of constitutional law was that in a public or governing body not only should there be no bias in decision making but that there should be no suspicion, or reason to have suspicion of, bias. Premier league referees on Manchester City's payroll absolutely pisses in the face of that fundamental. They're fucking laughing at us. 

 

It's like this thing they have, a Liverpool fan ref can't ref a Liverpool or Everton game or any of Liverpool's rivals. And they enforce this it seems if there's a suspicion that it could be conflict - like mike dean, despite coming from the Wirral and supporting Tranmere, only got Liverpool and Everton games once COVID came along. Yet half the leagues referees come from Manchester, yet seem allowed to referee both Manchester clubs and their rivals. You can't have these regional conflict of interests, but only enforce them when you feel like. Either it's an issue or it isn't. 

 

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's one reason why I think VAR should be staffed by people who aren't on the roster for reffing Premier League games.  It's like getting schoolkids to mark each other's homework; I'll give you an A in Maths and you give me an A in Geography.

 

Yeah, it's another issue. But really you'd want someone who's also not under the control of PGMOL too. 

 

30 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

They changed the rule a couple of years ago as penalty and a red card was deemed too much punishment.

That's only for last man if they make a genuine attempt for the ball. It wasn't a real last man situation anyway right out there. But it was a dangerous challenge, proved actually by the fact he injured himself. And was lucky not to have injured Nunez. Earlier in the day, mcginn was sent off for exactly that type of challenge and ederson should have been too. His objective was to wipe out Nunez, he had no chance of getting the ball. 

[Carra_is_legend]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

It's like this thing they have, a Liverpool fan ref can't ref a Liverpool or Everton game or any of Liverpool's rivals. And they enforce this it seems if there's a suspicion that it could be conflict - like mike dean, despite coming from the Wirral and supporting Tranmere, only got Liverpool and Everton games once COVID came along. Yet half the leagues referees come from Manchester, yet seem allowed to referee both Manchester clubs and their rivals. You can't have these regional conflict of interests, but only enforce them when you feel like. Either it's an issue or it isn't. 

 

I said this sometime ago, its not even about them supporting a Manc club or not, they will 100% have family members or friends supporting one of the Manc clubs. Its fucking scandalous when thinking about it. They don't even need to give a penalty frequently (or not for the other side), they just have to go easy on bookings, fouls so players avoid suspensions for important games. There are so many things they can do to ensure nothing is suspicious or obvious and that it is death by thousand cuts mostly to the opposition. And when the same cunts officiate our games, their whistles work overtime.  

 

Dave mentioned it in the match report - Rodri got booked early against us and it was clear that it affected him. How many times does he get away with murder in countless number of games only to not get booked until late in the game, once the game is won? Rodri has the same number of bookings as Darwin! 

[aws]

Replace the team in Stockley Park by a team in Stutgard.

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

3 minutes ago, Carra_is_legend said:

 

I said this sometime ago, its not even about them supporting a Manc club or not, they will 100% have family members or friends supporting one of the Manc clubs. Its fucking scandalous when thinking about it. They don't even need to give a penalty frequently (or not for the other side), they just have to go easy on bookings, fouls so players avoid suspensions for important games. There are so many things they can do to ensure nothing is suspicious or obvious and that it is death by thousand cuts mostly to the opposition. And when the same cunts officiate our games, their whistles work overtime.  

 

Dave mentioned it in the match report - Rodri got booked early against us and it was clear that it affected him. How many times does he get away with murder in countless number of games only to not get booked until late in the game, once the game is won? Rodri has the same number of bookings as Darwin! 

 

They don't even have to be cheating is my view though. What they need to be seen as is fair. If there is a possibility they may not be seen as fair, be that because of where they were born or the fact they're on the payroll of on of the competing teams in the league, then they will never be seen as impartial. From that point on, they can't really win if they're selected despite conflict of interests. 

 

Let's assume Oliver made an honest mistake yesterday (and in the Manchester derby). The fact he has been earning money freelancing for Manchester city's owners means he will be under suspicion. Equally, he must realise it's a thing. Instead of his mind being clear on his refereeing, he's viewing these incidents through the prism he will be judged based on his relationship to city. If he gives us the pen, there will be people out there would claim he did so to prove he's not on their payroll. Or others claiming he did, because he hasn't had enough gigs off them. 

 

There doesn't need to be impropriety, there just needs to be a perceived potential conflict and the whole system's credibility is undermined. 

[El Rojo]

The last three paras of Ken Early's match analysis in the Irish Times on Monday are excellent:

 

The other big call was the decision by Michael Oliver not to award a penalty in the last minute when Jérémy Doku kicked MacAllister in the chest. It will surely go down as one of the worst refereeing decisions of the season. We can at least look forward to the spectacle of the PGMOL boss, Howard Webb, having to discuss a ref botching a studs-to-chest incident on his TV show with Michael Owen. The most famous (non-) decision in Webb’s own refereeing career was his failure to notice Nigel de Jong kicking Xabi Alonso in the heart in the 2010 World Cup final. Webb, at least, could plead in his defence that he didn’t have VAR. Oliver could have gone to take a second look at the incident, but he decided he didn’t need to.
 

It’s not that Oliver, who earlier this season officiated a game in the UAE Pro League, has an objection to making big decisions on video evidence. He was on VAR duty when Manchester City played at Old Trafford earlier this season. He instructed referee Paul Tierney to give a penalty to City after seeing that Rasmus Højlund had held on to Rodri at a City set-piece. It was a surprising decision in the context of a season where all manner of premeditated holding, blocking and shoving has become so normalised at set pieces.

Oliver was also the referee when Manchester City played Arsenal in October. Kovacic committed two big fouls in quick succession, against Martin Ødegaard and Declan Rice. Oliver let him away with a single booking, to the fury of the Emirates. Webb later admitted that Kovacic should have been sent off. “He doesn’t want to have a negative impact on the game by overreacting to something,” Webb said. Why should he “overreact” when he can have just as big an impact by doing nothing at all?

[Barrington Womble]

9 minutes ago, aws said:

Replace the team in Stockley Park by a team in Stutgard.

 

 

 

I was thinking about this the other day. Why do they need to talk to the referee and give each other guidance on what has happened and the outcome? This is here to get big decisions right. Why not operate it in a way where the onfield decision is upheld until there's a massive clanger and then there's no communication other than to look at the screen? This decision could even be made by the pointless 4th official.