Liverpool 1 Aston Villa 1 (May 20 2023)

[tlw content]

 

We’ve had a lot of low moments this season and plenty of games that I found difficult to process. Really in the grand scheme of things this one shouldn’t even register on that list but somehow it’s really got to me. My head was so done in that I left at full time and didn’t even stay for the lap of honour and the goodbyes to Bobby and Big Games James.

 

I couldn’t do it, I just needed to get the fuck of there as it was one of the most frustrating, unpleasant afternoons I’ve ever spent at Anfield.

 

There were three reasons for that. Our performance was a small factor as it was not good at all. I can deal with that though, and besides, it wasn’t even THAT bad. We’ve played far worse than this. The lads kept going, found an equaliser and they were absolutely not the reason my head was so cabbaged. I felt sorry for them if anything, because that game was a fucking abomination.

 

The conduct of the Aston Villa players all afternoon was beyond a disgrace. Hardly anything seems to have been made of it in the media but the carry on from them all day was fucking disgusting. This is a cancer in the game now and it needs addressing. Newcastle are the worst for it but this from Villa was every bit as bad as anything we’ve seen from Beheddie Howe and his Saudi shills.

 

I’ve got plenty to say on that and I’ll get to it shortly. The third factor that tipped me over the edge was the officiating. It could not have been more obvious what was going on. Revenge is a dish best served cold and John Brooks will have been laughing his tiny cock off after this. He really showed Klopp didn’t he? Again, I’ve got a lot to say and I’ll get to it.

 

The game itself was shit. We didn’t start well and it was a little disconcerting how Villa were playing out from the back and doing it really well. How can it not be a bit worrying when we’re not getting anywhere near Tyrone Mings and they’re popping passes through and around us?

 

Emery is a good coach and he clearly knew what they needed to do to shut down our passing lanes, as we struggled to get in between the lines and everything was in front of them and posing no threat. It was all way too bunched in the centre and they dealt with it easily. They also knew that the key to getting at us was to use Watkins in the space Konate was having to cover.

 

They got a penalty via that route. Mo lost the ball cheaply and a ball was played into space for Watkins to chase. He got there first but Konate looked like he had it under control. Then Watkins toed the ball past him as Konate made a challenge and down he went. The ref immediately pointed to the spot but with VAR you always think there might be a twist. From my vantage point I thought there was a chance that Ibou may have got a touch on the ball as he seemed to be telling the ref he did. This was going to be one of those rare clear cut ones where he either got the ball or he didn’t. It’s an easy call.

 

Having seen the replays since, he didn’t get anything on it and it’s a clear penalty. You have to wonder why players are so adamant about this stuff when the video is there to expose them. Konate didn’t get the ball and he knew it. Protesting isn’t going change anything when there’s VAR. He wouldn’t have even got away with that if the ref hadn’t given it, as it was so blatant that VAR would have had to intervene. There was never a danger the ref wouldn’t give it though, but I’ll get to that.

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[alles ist gut]

Top, top jobsworths analysis there, Dave.

[halewood pete]

Great report Dave,agree with every word.Jurgen really does need to try and control his outbursts,because as you say the officials will always fuck us over 

[CrownPaints]

I gave up at half time, took the dog out for a walk and tried to ignore the updates.

 

If this is how football is going to be in future with cheating on an industrial scale off the pitch and cheating on it, count me out in future. Who wants to be part of a sport where you enter the season knowing you have to sprint every second and still not win, where your opponents waste so much time and are never punished for it.

 

On a positive note, the new kit looks nice.

[Carra_is_legend]

Agree with everything you have said about revenge, every single word. I said in the referees thread (I think!) that I am not sure where we go with refs now because they are all clearly targeting Klopp, especially at Anfield. Someone replied to that post asking what the ref did wrong, I thought of replying but then thought fuck it......if someone could not see the agenda from Brooks in that game then I don't know what to say.

 

There is a clear pattern here - first he appointed Taylor against Brentford and then Brooks, who was obviously at the end of a stupid thing Klopp did. I am concerned that its not a simple "ok lads, go and take your revenge in a game and forget about it" from Webb either. I am genuinely concerned that this will carry on into next season unless we do something about it. What can we do about it? I don't have a fucking clue because if the club extends an olive branch it might only tickle Webb's ego to do it more often. 

 

[bossy]

As to why Villa stopped ‘playing’, I think our press started well and they got out of it by the skin of their teeth once or twice which then gave them confidence to play through us. Consequently our press became disjointed. Towards the end of the first half and start of the second our press became better again, so they decided not to take it on as they were going to end up in trouble. Hence Plan B; act the cunt all the time. 
I think you’re spot on about the ref’s subjective calls, his whole being was primed to only give us the undeniable. Klopp needs to control himself. 

[Kevin D]

Opposition players missing penalties at Anfield never gets old.

[aws]

The trouble with being nice to officials and smiling as the bad calls against you mount up gets you nowhere. Ask Mo.  

I thought Villa tired after 30 minutes of chasing about and we just took over more and more as their pace dropped.  

[Frank Dacey]

I've got mixed emotions about going after the refs. On the one hand, Tierney's incompetence (or worse) was responsible for a four point swing to City last season and effectively gifted them the title. His persistent appointments to ref ruin our games is just like trolling us. It used to be the case that if a cup tie was drawn the same ref took the replay, in the days  when replays took place within 3 or 4 days of the original tie. They gave up the idea because they realised that the system tended to make problems foe referees. So how come Tierney got to ref 2 home games out of 3? I can't remember that ever happening before. On the other hand, the worst officiating I ever saw against us was by Webb at Chelsea in the Rodgers 'nearly' season after Rodgers had complained about Lee Mason reffing our game against City and disallowing a perfectly good goal. We ended up losing the Chelsea game when any unbiased ref would have sent off a Chelsea player and given us two pens. We lost the league that season by two points, I think. As for John Brooks, was he out for revenge, or is he just a weak and ineffectual ref? The latter, I think.

[dave u]

A South Yorkshire copper is never going to be fair with Liverpool. Webb should never have been allowed anywhere near any of our games due to that massive conflict of interest. Now he's the one deciding who is in charge of all of our matches. It's a living hell.

[aws]

I think the allocation of refs is something we could legitimately gripe to the Prem League about without being seen to question the impartiality of some of the refs. Maybe link it to a suggestion that there should be some independent oversight of the refereeing setup generally. Just the threat that he might end up losing some of his power might encourage Webb to rein it in a bit. 

[redrosetints]

I see the club has officially written to PGMOL about the Mings challenge and offside goal. Maybe we’ve recognised it’s not going to get anywhere with Klopp kicking off and trying to put some pressure on them. 

[CapeRed]

5 hours ago, redrosetints said:

I see the club has officially written to PGMOL about the Mings challenge and offside goal. Maybe we’ve recognised it’s not going to get anywhere with Klopp kicking off and trying to put some pressure on them. 

This will be blown off by the PGMOL . SYP shitebag will ensure that.

[DaveT]

11 hours ago, dave u said:

A South Yorkshire copper is never going to be fair with Liverpool. Webb should never have been allowed anywhere near any of our games due to that massive conflict of interest. Now he's the one deciding who is in charge of all of our matches. It's a living hell.

This. I’ve made this point countless times over the years on national forums and I genuinely think people in the wider football world just don’t get the connection.

[dave u]

We don't have a leg to stand on regarding the goal. It's subjective, there's no definitive answer as to whether he 'made a play' at the ball or not because the wording of the rule is vague as fuck. Dale Johnson on ESPN explained it in detail. They won't be apologising for that.

 

The Mings challenge is one we might perhaps get an apology for, but again I doubt it. 

 

As for aws' point on complaining about the allocations of refs, nobody gives a fuck about this aside from us. Webb can do whatever the hell he likes as there's no-one going to tell him otherwise. We're fucked here. We either accept it and get shafted, or complain about it and get shafted even worse.

[Peter Cormack]

Absolutely brilliant report Dave, it sums up how many of us must feel; Webb, Tierney, Taylor and Brookes, the hierarchy at the club needs to go full ferguson on each of them. I lasted till I threw the remote at the tv, and stormed out saying there‘s no point watching this. Only once before in50 odd years have I done this….walking out of the Irish pub in Munich at half time in 2005. You also made a great point about not having an enforcer ( reminder is a better word) , something we‘ve lacked since StevieG went.

[Peter Cormack]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

We don't have a leg to stand on regarding the goal. It's subjective, there's no definitive answer as to whether he 'made a play' at the ball or not because the wording of the rule is vague as fuck. Dale Johnson on ESPN explained it in detail. They won't be apologising for that.

 

The Mings challenge is one we might perhaps get an apology for, but again I doubt it. 

 

As for aws' point on complaining about the allocations of refs, nobody gives a fuck about this aside from us. Webb can do whatever the hell he likes as there's no-one going to tell him otherwise. We're fucked here. We either accept it and get shafted, or complain about it and get shafted even worse.

Fuck apologies from Webb and co they are worthless and meaningless. 

[redrosetints]

2 hours ago, dave u said:

We don't have a leg to stand on regarding the goal. It's subjective, there's no definitive answer as to whether he 'made a play' at the ball or not because the wording of the rule is vague as fuck. Dale Johnson on ESPN explained it in detail. They won't be apologising for that.

 

The Mings challenge is one we might perhaps get an apology for, but again I doubt it. 

Agreed, but maybe it’s recognition, as you’ve all pointed out on the POD that Klopp needs to keep out of these things as it’s not helping, indeed worsening the situation and the club are taking a different approach to opening dialogue.

 

Im not sure it’ll make any difference but the treatment of Mo, or lack of penalties, for example needs to be bought up and a wider discussion prompted.

[Mathewbet1]

Have you seen/heard the footage they released calling Antony Taylor 'tails'. 'tails', 'tails' go look at the monitor tails, tails did you see it? Says it all. The VAR system  is run be incompetent muppets, and those were the best examples that they released, imagine how bad the other ones are, sound like some blokes in a pub. Policemen at generally not the smartest cookies and are rarely impartial. 

[Guest]

 

[StevieMax]

12 hours ago, dave u said:

We don't have a leg to stand on regarding the goal. It's subjective, there's no definitive answer as to whether he 'made a play' at the ball or not because the wording of the rule is vague as fuck. Dale Johnson on ESPN explained it in detail. They won't be apologising for that.

 

The Mings challenge is one we might perhaps get an apology for, but again I doubt it. 

 

As for aws' point on complaining about the allocations of refs, nobody gives a fuck about this aside from us. Webb can do whatever the hell he likes as there's no-one going to tell him otherwise. We're fucked here. We either accept it and get shafted, or complain about it and get shafted even worse.

Right - so Brooks says that it is subjective and Brooks' decision rests on whether he thinks Konsa is trying to play the ball or not (i.e. it hits Konsa whilst he's looking the other way).

Konsa is clearly looking at the ball.

If Konsa misses the ball it will fall to Konate 7-8 yards from goal.

So what is not deliberate about Konsa playing the ball?

Finally, the last touch by a Liverpool player is the header from Diaz - he heads the ball back i.e. away from goal. I thought that offside can only be given from a forward pass.

I think that the PGMOL need to explain what offside actually means in this instance.

PS Even MOTD thought that the decision was incorrect.

[Rushies tash]

The ball doesn't have to be played forward, just played (as in the last touch comes from an attacking player).

[s(k)aturation]

So, if you're leaving before the end of season lap of "honour" @dave u ... and, of all people, @Barrington Womble is "done with football", or some such words and feels the same... when will people, at 70-80 quid a throw, pack this shit in?

It's only getting worse, not better.

If you'd have said to me as a kid, we'd beat United 7-0, I'd have slit my own grandmother's throat to secure that type of win.

Now, a few weeks on... meh.

Shithousery from players, shithousery from officialdom... when do we jib all this shite off?

We don't of course, I guess.

But fuck, I'm certainly starting to confuse myself with all this faux ambivalence.

 

 

 

[StevieMax]

21 hours ago, Rushies tash said:

The ball doesn't have to be played forward, just played (as in the last touch comes from an attacking player).

Wow!

Are you sure?  When did that sneak into the rulebook?  The Offside Law must have a whole section to itself by now.

 

So, now we're left with the "subjective" call.

Who would think that a professional referee (or two, if you count the knob twiddler on VAR) could believe that a defender on the edge of the six yard box would not actively try to intercept a pass from one forward to another who is closer to goal?

 

It seems that PGMOL are taking their time on the answer to this - perhaps some tapes are being edited.

[Rushies tash]

10 minutes ago, StevieMax said:

Wow!

Are you sure?  When did that sneak into the rulebook?  The Offside Law must have a whole section to itself by now.

 

So, now we.re left with the "subjective" call.

Who would think that a professional referee (or two, if you count the knob twiddler on VAR) could believe that a defender on the edge of the six yard box would not actively try to intercept a pass from one forward to another who is closer to goal?

 

It seems that PGMOL are taking their time on the answer to this - perhaps some tapes are being edited.

 

Jota (the corner taker) is offside here as his trailing leg is ahead of the ball and the last defender when the ball is played to him. Offside, regardless of the direction of the ball.