Venezuela

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

You do understand that the US has bet on both horses for decades in South America right?

 

If Guaido was center-left I don't think Trump wouldn't be supporting him and we'd not know of him. Trump all of a sudden supporting a left-wing government? I don't think so. It wouldn't help him get oil so it wouldn't happen.

[Red Phoenix]

Trump is a fascist puppet of Putin!*

 

 

* but he wants to replace the leader of a foreign government to get oil and doesn't give a fuck about the people in that country, so we should argue against the current leader of that foreign government. Because that makes a whole fucking load of sense.

[Strontium]

22 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Ok he might not be far right, maybe that's me getting wound up at the stupidity of your posts that are basically supporting this and then trying to make out he's left wing, but he is right wing and there's clear evidence for that. Trump supporting him is 100% evidence. Trump is right wing and it'd be stupid to think that he all of a sudden supports the installation of a center-left government anywhere. Then you have all the other right-wing leaders that support him, that's more evidence.

 

Then the fact that he declared himself as the new president without even checking to see if the Venezuelan people support that. Doesn't sound too democratic.

 

Then you can have a read of some of his past and tell me if this is social democracy in action : https://www.mintpressnews.com/the-making-of-juan-guaido-how-the-us-regime-change-laboratory-created-venezuela-coup-leader/254387/

 

 

"Trump supports him" is not 100% evidence.

 

A Max Blumenthal article? Dear lord...

[Red Phoenix]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

"Trump supports him" is not 100% evidence.

 

A Max Blumenthal article? Dear lord...

 

Trump and his mob want oil from Venezuela. Right or wrong?

[TheHowieLama]

8 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Trump and his mob country want buy oil from Venezuela OPEC. Right or wrong?

 

[Red Phoenix]

Haha, the efforts to avoid the fact that this is clearly wrong are just too over the top now, I'm out for a bit.

[TheHowieLama]

Mate -- you do understand how oil works right?

 

Nobody gets any oil for free, or for blood, which you have probably read a few thousand times - it is a commodity and the prices are per barrel and are set and controlled by OPEC. Venezuela is a founding member of OPEC. 

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

Mate -- you do understand how oil works right?

 

Nobody gets any oil for free, or for blood, which you have probably read a few thousand times - it is a commodity and the prices are per barrel and are set and controlled by OPEC. Venezuela is a founding member of OPEC. 

 

 

 

I'd have stayed away for a while but I thought this post was just insane so went to have a further look around at the "why" of Trump and his mobs desire for oil. Have a read of this, and OPEC is included, and tell me why a similar strategy can't also apply to Venezuela :

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/mar/20/iraq-war-oil-resources-energy-peak-scarcity-economy

[Red Phoenix]

Bolton to Fox news : "It will make a big difference to the United States economically if we can have American oil companies really invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela."

 

Trump according to Andrew McCabe : "That's the country we should be going to war with. They have all that oil and they're right on our back door."

 

Rubio on Twitter : "Biggest buyers of Venezuelan oil are @ValeroEnergy & @Chevron. Refining heavy crude from #Venezuela supports great jobs in Gulf Coast. For the sake of these U.S. workers I hope they will begin working with administration of President Guaido & cut off illegitimate Maduro regime."

 

I see no reason to budge from the idea that a big reason the US wants Maduro out is to get at the oil.

[Jairzinho]

Guaido is centre left... top banter.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

According to The Onion, US aid to Venezuela is "just a lit stick of dynamite painted to look like a carrot".

[SasaS]

8 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Bolton to Fox news : "It will make a big difference to the United States economically if we can have American oil companies really invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela."

 

Trump according to Andrew McCabe : "That's the country we should be going to war with. They have all that oil and they're right on our back door."

 

Rubio on Twitter : "Biggest buyers of Venezuelan oil are @ValeroEnergy & @Chevron. Refining heavy crude from #Venezuela supports great jobs in Gulf Coast. For the sake of these U.S. workers I hope they will begin working with administration of President Guaido & cut off illegitimate Maduro regime."

 

I see no reason to budge from the idea that a big reason the US wants Maduro out is to get at the oil.

 

They want him out now because they think he is weak. They have always wanted a regime change there because this regime was always hostile to their national interests, as they see them.  

[Red Phoenix]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

They want him out now because they think he is weak. They have always wanted a regime change there because this regime was always hostile to their national interests, as they see them.  

 

There's no point even arguing the oil subject now because it's already proven. Bolton and Rubio have openly stated it as a reason. Of course there'll be other reasons too though, I'm not denying that.

[Red Phoenix]

 

WaPo article linked there by Omar is by one of Sanders' campaign co-chairs. He seems like a good guy and might help talk some sense into Bernie if/when needed.

[SasaS]

10 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

There's no point even arguing the oil subject now because it's already proven. Bolton and Rubio have openly stated it as a reason. Of course there'll be other reasons too though, I'm not denying that.

[TheHowieLama]

RP -- nobody is arguing that oil has to do with it -- least of all for Venezuela, they only have one fucking thing pal.

And the US already has the oil - we buy most of it. Nobody would give a hoot (Russians and China included) if there was no oil.  Unfortunately for them the one thing they have a shitload of is of the lowest grade and can only be purchased by a few countries who have the means to refine it - they don't. 

So they can sell to probably four countries who have that infrastructure - one ( Russia) is not a buyer. So they have three potential customers in reality. The US being by far the biggest - and those transactions have never stopped. Even now with the sanctions of just a couple weeks ago the US still buys their oil - the funds are in escrow atm.

 

If Venezuela had invested into their oil infrastructure 30 years ago they would be in a much better position. The realized and potential value of those resources have been criminally under mined by a complete clusterfuck of their own creation.

 

You are correct that there are US companies that would be happy to invest in that infrastructure for profit. Thats what they do. In reality it would probably allow Venezuela to sell more oil - but that is conjecture.

 

Nobody on here is suggesting or supporting military intervention - get off the conspiracy youtubes mate.

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

You are correct that there are US companies that would be happy to invest in that infrastructure for profit. Thats what they do. In reality it would probably allow Venezuela to sell more oil - but that is conjecture.

 

Nobody on here is suggesting or supporting military intervention - get off the conspiracy youtubes mate.

 

That's what I was getting at, that the companies want to profit off the oil instead of just buying it. Stop it from being nationalized. Same old shit with Iran and their oil company too, which just happens to be who Trump has also been going against. I don't think I was really going at people supporting military intervention either, just think it's stupid that so much focus is on Maduro when the US could make things way worse.

 

I don't remember watching any conspiracy youtubes recently either. Am about to start reading a UFO book though, which should be better than most of the conspiracy bullshit on yt.

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

That's what I was getting at, that the companies want to profit off the oil instead of just buying it.

Well, they buy it either way. And they profit off it now - as said it needs to go through refinement. That is currently done in the US -- as alluded to by Rubio.

There is a chance they could make more profit if they invested in putting those refineries in Venezuela. 

And there is a chance Venezuela would sell more oil as a result.

 

 

The focus is on Maduro because of the election issue.

[Red Phoenix]

I've no issues if you believe that, I guess we're never going to agree either so will try and leave it. Thanks for mentioning OPEC too, helped me understand a bit more about the oil side of things after looking it up a bit.

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

There is a chance they could make more profit if they invested in putting those refineries in Venezuela. 

And there is a chance Venezuela would sell more oil as a result.

 

There's no chance about it, it's a racing certainty. One of the reasons Venezuela's oil production has slumped is because they booted out all of the foreign oil companies when they forcibly nationalised the oil industry. Venezuela obviously had enough of experts. This is what happens when you put ideology above practical concerns.

[Red Phoenix]

[TheHowieLama]

Why is the Venezuelan white??

Is that a crown of thorns on the mantel?

[Red Phoenix]

13 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Why is the Venezuelan white??

Is that a crown of thorns on the mantel?

 

Way to miss the point. I don't know I didn't draw it and don't know who did. Maybe his colour doesn't matter too much because the same situation could be applied to other countries too. But yeah, I didn't draw it and it's not the main point of the image.

[TheHowieLama]

What about the crown of thorns?

 

Ideas?

 

I am worried that while your macro concerns may have some merit they have little to do with Venezuela.

Those fellas are brown.

[Red Phoenix]

5 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

What about the crown of thorns?

 

Ideas?

 

What about the thing outside trying to get in, that you've so far ignored and is the main point of the entire thing?

 

Ideas?