Why firefighters have to strike

[Paulie Dangerously]

That's all right, then. So long as one side gives in to blackmail everything'll be cushty.

 

Of course it's not "all right." S31 said he's lost sympathy for the fire fighters (implying they're to blame in his eyes), I said that I would put said blame on the management.

 

In an ideal world no-one would be affected by this and it's a sad case that we're potentially going into Playful Explosives Night without full fire service but this situation clearly hasn't come to a head overnight. It would've taken lots of careful negotiations, offers and counter offers before the unions felt there was no option but to strike.

[dennis tooth]

That's all right, then. So long as one side gives in to blackmail everything'll be cushty.

 

Whoa there, stop a horse. Who is blackmailing whom? This is a result of the banks blackmailing the government with having lost all our money so we the people pay double and reduce our public services to our own detriment to prop up their profits and our savings.

 

Get real my freind.

[Guest TK-421]

Here is my semi-informed but completely biased view on the matter.

 

I have no sympathy because they work 4 days on 4 off. That's jammy as fuck.

 

Plus they all have second jobs which they don't pay tax on, giving them an unfair advantage over your average citizen for life.

 

They also get copious amounts of minge for looking like fucking Lego men in stupid uniforms.

 

And then they try to pull this shit.

 

Remember remember

The 5th of Novembarrrrggggghhhhhh!

OUCH! Where is the fireman!? Oh..FUCK.

 

No sympathy.

[melons]

I have to go with the loss of sympathy, i had little sympathy in the first place, but the walk out on bommy night is taking the piss.

 

In rural communities most fire fighters are volunteer. Their bleeper goes off you see them legging it down the high street to the station. Now those i appreciate, and i'm grateful for, they're doing more then a job in my book.

[Section_31]

I must say also, as someone who monitors firefighter activity, their attendance at 'traditional' blazes like house fires and what not has diminished over the years due to greater fire prevention advice and things like the fact people no longer use chip pans. It tends to be petty arson like bin fires that keeps our lot round here busiest these days. I also have it on good authority that they spend a great deel of time playing pool and watching porn.

[TheBitch]

4 on 4 off?!?!?!?!

 

Fuck that shit. I ain't gettin' outta bed for that shit shift pattern.

 

4 on 6 off is where it's at, and every 7 blocks, 20 days off, no fucking wonder they're out on strike. The union reps need to get their sorry arses in gear, I'm afraid.

 

[dennis tooth]

Here is my semi-informed but completely biased view on the matter.

 

I have no sympathy because they work 4 days on 4 off. That's jammy as fuck.

 

Plus they all have second jobs which they don't pay tax on, giving them an unfair advantage over your average citizen for life.

 

They also get copious amounts of minge for looking like fucking Lego men in stupid uniforms.

 

And then they try to pull this shit.

 

Remember remember

The 5th of Novembarrrrggggghhhhhh!

OUCH! Where is the fireman!? Oh..FUCK.

 

No sympathy.

 

Be sure to tell them that when they are about to cut you out of a car crash.

[Furmedge]

Do you know something he doesn't?

[Cardie]

And maybe if Vodaphone were made to pay their tax bill we'd be able to pay them what they are worth.

 

Don't disagree

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Its there own fault for putting the publics lives at risk on Bonfire night.

 

Nobody else's.

 

The public do a good job of that on there own every night not just bonfire night.

[lifetime fan]

They work on average over 40 hours a week, lets not forget that when people slag them off for having 4 on 4 off.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I support the firefighters' right to strike over this. I don't support a strike on the night when people are most at risk. Pretty simple really.

[migs]

I've got no sympathy. They've had the same shift pattern for 31 years, and now they're kicking off because it's changing. For God's sake, how many other places of employment have never changed a shift pattern in over 3 decades? They're not being asked to work longer hours; their day shift will change from 9 hours to 12 hours and the current night shift will be reduced from 15 to 12 hours. They do 2 days of days, 2 days of nights and then have 4 days off.

 

I'm not disputing they do a great job, and put their lives in danger etc, but striking on Bonfire Night is a right cunt's trick.

This attitude just baffles me every fuckin time. I despise this country's "I haven't got it, so why should you?" attitude.

 

It's absolutely right that anybody, not just Firefighters, should fight to protect their working conditions, and it's absolutely right that they should retain the option to withdraw their labour when all else fails. Otherwise, what we'll be left with is a workforce who will be convinced that they should be grateful to have a job, when it's their fundamental right to work, if they so wish. Let's face it, we're already 3/4 of the way there.

 

Why should any working man or woman simply accept any detrimental changes to their terms and conditions? Nobody should ever give away T&Cs which have been hard won over the years, unless it suits them to do so. It's funny how contracts of employment always appear to be totally binding for the employee, and totally flexible for the employer.

 

This isn't about the Firefighters attempting to gain more, it is simply to protect the status quo. Such a fight shouldn't be condemned by anybody.

[She Knows It]

This attitude just baffles me every fuckin time. I despise this country's "I haven't got it, so why should you?" attitude.

 

It's absolutely right that anybody, not just Firefighters, should fight to protect their working conditions, and it's absolutely right that they should retain the option to withdraw their labour when all else fails. Otherwise, what we'll be left with is a workforce who will be convinced that they should be grateful to have a job, when it's their fundamental right to work, if they so wish. Let's face it, we're already 3/4 of the way there.

 

Why should any working man or woman simply accept any detrimental changes to their terms and conditions? Nobody should ever give away T&Cs which have been hard won over the years, unless it suits them to do so. It's funny how contracts of employment always appear to be totally binding for the employee, and totally flexible for the employer.

 

This isn't about the Firefighters attempting to gain more, it is simply to protect the status quo. Such a fight shouldn't be condemned by anybody.

 

But Migs, you have completely misunderstood my point. I don't understand why working a 3 hour shorter nightshift is such a terrible change to your working conditions? Will there be less staff, or less money, or are you going to be forced to perform someone else's duties as well as your own? I just really don't understand.

[Section_31]

This attitude just baffles me every fuckin time. I despise this country's "I haven't got it, so why should you?" attitude.

 

It's absolutely right that anybody, not just Firefighters, should fight to protect their working conditions, and it's absolutely right that they should retain the option to withdraw their labour when all else fails. Otherwise, what we'll be left with is a workforce who will be convinced that they should be grateful to have a job, when it's their fundamental right to work, if they so wish. Let's face it, we're already 3/4 of the way there.

 

Why should any working man or woman simply accept any detrimental changes to their terms and conditions? Nobody should ever give away T&Cs which have been hard won over the years, unless it suits them to do so. It's funny how contracts of employment always appear to be totally binding for the employee, and totally flexible for the employer.

 

This isn't about the Firefighters attempting to gain more, it is simply to protect the status quo. Such a fight shouldn't be condemned by anybody.

 

When most people withdraw their labour, people don't die - 'the man' just gets pissed off, which is fine.

 

Certain careers have extra responsibilities, it is - afterall - probably what attracts them to that career in the first place, the idea that they are doing something more important with their lives than merely serving the 9-5.

 

Police, fire, the military, security services, the NHS, are rightly lauded for their role, they attract people who want more out of their working life than simply money, they get respect for that, but they have to pay the price for it too - and fulfilling a duty beyond simply thinking about their own working lives is part of that price.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Isn't the issue that if they do not sign a new contract, that they will get sacked.

 

Surely nobody would stand for that, and surely it can't be legal that they are threatened with that.

 

I know I wouldn't sign anything if anyone threatened me, I would certainly seek legal advice.

 

And as for the union, they will back down eventually and agree to the terms stated in the new contract, they always do, they aint worth a carrot these days, it's all about being the loudest mouth, but when it comes down to doing anything, they can't, other than cause a bit of unrest. They don't look after their members when it really matters, because they have no power.

[migs]

But Migs, you have completely misunderstood my point. I don't understand why working a 3 hour shorter nightshift is such a terrible change to your working conditions? Will there be less staff, or less money, or are you going to be forced to perform someone else's duties as well as your own? I just really don't understand.

It's not for us to decide whether it's good. or not. If the current incumbents feel it's a change for the worse, then it is correct for them to object.

 

I currently work 12hr shifts, days and nights. Not on a 4 on 4 off, as many do, but 12hrs all the same. If my employer suddenly decided to change me to 3 8hr shifts - earlies/lates/nights/ - then I would object. I'd be working 4hrs less on a night shift, so wouldn't that be a good thing? No, not for me, so I'd object.

 

When such a campaign is launched to protect workers' interests, there is usually a contra media campaign to portray the protesting employees to be lazy, workshy good for nothings. Unfortunately, the general public fall for it hook line and sinker, and resent someone having something they don't.

 

If someone appears to be better off that someone else, the way to look at such situations isn't "Everybody else has had to change, so why shouldn't they?", as you did in your original post, but "I like what they have, so how do I get it?". I'm not saying you do want the Firefighters' T&Cs, but it's a sound argument, in general.

 

We have very few trade unions left in this country who are still willing to fight with the gloves off, and we should be applauding every one of them, instead of condemning them. Strikes aren't pretty, and it's rare that every single person doesn't lose something along the way, but there are principles which need protecting. The erosion of such principles, over the past 20 years (and the past 2 years in particular) has led us to the stage where people are all but shaking their employer's hand for not giving them a pay rise in 3 years, instead of realising that their wages have actually reduced by 7 or 8% in that time.

[Strontium]

I don't understand why working a 3 hour shorter nightshift is such a terrible change to your working conditions?

 

 

It's not, it's entirely reasonable, and there is no excuse for such intransigence. This is opposition for opposition's sake. Expect to see a lot more of it now that the "Evil Tories" are in government. That's all this is about.

[lifetime fan]

It's not, it's entirely reasonable, and there is no excuse for such intransigence. This is opposition for opposition's sake. Expect to see a lot more of it now that the "Evil Tories" are in government. That's all this is about.

 

Don't talk absolute bollocks.

 

Grown up politics is it now?

 

Negging and saying 'fuck off' because you don't like what someone says, proper grown up politics that aint it?

 

Who was in power when the fire brigade went on strike over a 30k a year salary?

[elBooth]

It's not, it's entirely reasonable, and there is no excuse for such intransigence. This is opposition for opposition's sake. Expect to see a lot more of it now that the "Evil Tories" are in government. That's all this is about.

 

Don't worry mate I'm sure when the "Super, great, good for the rich Tories" get their way we'll have to go and fight our own fires for free, as part of the "One Big Society", or risk burning to death while they all sit round living it up at £25k parties.

 

"It's about working together, except us because we've got more money than you."

[Dirk]

Go 'ead, Migs! You learn 'em.

[dennis tooth]

It's not, it's entirely reasonable, and there is no excuse for such intransigence. This is opposition for opposition's sake. Expect to see a lot more of it now that the "Evil Tories" are in government. That's all this is about.

 

Why is it reasonable? Are you allowed to change your T AND C with your employer?

[Dirk]

Totally disagree. They've chosen the busiest night of the year to hold people to ransom. It's their choice to strike when they do.

 

Threatening somebody with the sack unless they sign the T&Cs is the epitome of holding somebody to ransom. There's a clear power differential between the fire fighter and the managment. The fire fighters have my backing, bonfire night or not. Once the erosion of the powers of the group occurs and we arrive at the point where dissenters - no matter how numerous - have no credible voice, we will have become a dictatorship by consent. This is about far more than 12 hour shifts, 2nd jobs, and 3 day weeks.

[Liverpool lad]

 

When such a campaign is launched to protect workers' interests, there is usually a contra media campaign to portray the protesting employees to be lazy, workshy good for nothings. Unfortunately, the general public fall for it hook line and sinker, and resent someone having something they don't.

 

We have very few trade unions left in this country who are still willing to fight with the gloves off, and we should be applauding every one of them, instead of condemning them. Strikes aren't pretty, and it's rare that every single person doesn't lose something along the way, but there are principles which need protecting. The erosion of such principles, over the past 20 years (and the past 2 years in particular) has led us to the stage where people are all but shaking their employer's hand for not giving them a pay rise in 3 years, instead of realising that their wages have actually reduced by 7 or 8% in that time.

 

Fantastic first paragraph, sums it up nicely. The working classes and their innate jealousy of anyone getting ahead. Good second paragraph as well.

[Section_31]

Threatening somebody with the sack unless they sign the T&Cs is the epitome of holding somebody to ransom. There's a clear power differential between the fire fighter and the managment. The fire fighters have my backing, bonfire night or not. Once the erosion of the powers of the group occurs and we arrive at the point where dissenters - no matter how numerous - have no credible voice, we will have become a dictatorship by consent. This is about far more than 12 hour shifts, 2nd jobs, and 3 day weeks.

 

I won't be throwing my weight behind the firefighters to take a stand for the working man Dave, I will do if it's Ford workers or post men, because when they down tools people don't die.

 

I venture you'd change your mind if some scrote throws a roman candle through your window on bommie night, and all that's standing between you and a good tan is a squaddie with a thousand yard stare and a ladder that's too short.

 

Erosion of working rights has been going on for decades. My entire group was effectively made redundant a year ago and offered new contracts, the contracts contained such nuggets as the company reserving the right to send me on an unmpaid 12 month 'sabbatical' at any time of its choosing.

 

How come the people's army weren't willing to stand beside me while I ate my big bowl of shit?