Who was responsible for the "demise" of Liverpool?

[The Owld Fecker]

I know everything is relative and that is why I am asking the question.

 

When I was a lad Liverpool seemed to win (or be capable of winning) everything whilst my club, Sunderland, never had a "cat in hell's chance".

 

My, personal, candidate would be Dalglish - Controversial, maybe, so please let me explain.

 

Prior to his appointment players that were signed were, normally, consigned to your reserves, to learn to play the "Liverpool way".

 

That then stopped and players seemed to go straight into your first team and (I think) that, whereas his tenure started in glory he destroyed the culture that had been built up over decades.

 

Fear of your name IMHO, initially, allowed that to happen but once teams realised that Liverpool were not the "team of old" it then became a downhill slide which you have been attempting to correct ever since.

 

I know Souness is, normally, seen as the "Demon Destroyer" but what do YOU think?

[shaunstrudwick]

Moores

[zigackly]

I think you're very wrong indeed. We were as good under Dalglish at his peak as we have ever been in the league, probably better. The problem was that towards the end of his reign we needed to rebuild the team as it was aging. Kenny stepped down after the aftermath of the Hillsborough tragedy broke his will to carry on in the job, and Souness came in with a hatchet, replacing too many great players too quickly with too much dross.

[Red Nick]

It started with Dalglish walking out so you could say its down to him.

 

Reality was the team just need tweaking with 2 CM players as Whelan and McMahon were always injured so Souness really didnt help.

 

However Roy Evans put us back on track and if he had been a stronger manager would have won the title with the team he put together.

 

So at that point things were ok

 

Houllier did the same and undid his good work

 

Rafa looks like following in Evans & Houllier's footsteps

 

But the person who has destroyed the club the most and is most resposnible and should die a truly horrible death is David Moores as he is the one person that has totally done his best to destroy LFC,

[King Emlyn]

Souness and Moores.

[col06]

When I was a lad Liverpool seemed to win (or be capable of winning) everything whilst my club, Sunderland, never had a "cat in hell's chance".

 

why you on here if you Support Sunderland ??

[goatboy59]

Not so much about how much goes wrong but about everything being right.

 

You've got Shankly or Paisley at the helm, you're going to do great things. Much as I hate Ferguson he can claim to be on a similar level. We were run well back then, obviously Noel White David Moores and TwitTwat don't even begin to compare.

 

And a bit of luck, though not as much as the blueshite say!

 

Kenny replaced Twentyman with Ron Yeats, which wasn't smart. We still managed to find good players, and the local lads in the 90's was as good a harvest as we ever had.

 

Kenny got out just before we needed to start rebuilding, and Souness' judgement of players and man-management and especially fitness was way off. It's been catch-up ever since

 

Even so there's been times when I thought we'd got back in the game and we've fucked up.

 

The only thing that keeps me going now is the memory of believing we were fucked in 94 99 and 04. The debt makes it worse, but there's still hope.

[WhiskeyJar]

This:

[Dicko]

Kenny replaced Twentyman with Ron Yeats, which wasn't smart. We still managed to find good players, and the local lads in the 90's was as good a harvest as we ever had.

 

He also replaced Chris Lawler with Phil Thompson, which I don't think was a wise move either. If you were to ask me though Kenny would be a long way down the list.

Moores

White

Souness

Robinson*

Parry

Gillett & Hicks

 

*As great an administrator as he was his role along with White in setting up the puppet that was Moores eventually set us back years.

 

As for Ground sharing with Everton in Old Roan....Deary me.

[The Owld Fecker]

I think you're very wrong indeed. We were as good under Dalglish at his peak as we have ever been in the league, probably better. The problem was that towards the end of his reign we needed to rebuild the team as it was aging. Kenny stepped down after the aftermath of the Hillsborough tragedy broke his will to carry on in the job, and Souness came in with a hatchet, replacing too many great players too quickly with too much dross.

 

I'm sorry but I will stand by my (outsiders) assessment.

 

Who signed the players?

 

Who went for short term glory?

 

Who destroyed the Liverpool "culture"?

 

I still say (sadly) Dalglish.

 

Before his tenure (as an outsider) one of the reasons I had so much respect for your club was that it seemed to be unique.

 

You seemed to say to every player (Shanks et all) Join us and we will teach you how to play the game properly - and how to win!

 

Paisley seemed to carry on with the same ideal, as did Moran & Fagan.

 

Then the rules changed (Dalglish).

 

For me he is the man responsible for your "demise" - Nobody else!

 

Souness?

 

Great player (but a lousy manager) just caused the problems to be compounded by attempting to change too much, too soon.

[Unrighteous]

Moores.

[Ted]

Paul Stewart.

[zigackly]

I'm sorry but I will stand by my (outsiders) assessment.

 

Who signed the players?

 

Who went for short term glory?

 

Who destroyed the Liverpool "culture"?

 

I still say (sadly) Dalglish.

 

Before his tenure (as an outsider) one of the reasons I had so much respect for your club was that it seemed to be unique.

 

You seemed to say to every player (Shanks et all) Join us and we will teach you how to play the game properly - and how to win!

 

Paisley seemed to carry on with the same ideal, as did Moran & Fagan.

 

Then the rules changed (Dalglish).

 

For me he is the man responsible for your "demise" - Nobody else!

 

Souness?

 

Great player (but a lousy manager) just caused the problems to be compounded by attempting to change too much, too soon.

 

Sorry, but that's complete fucking bollocks. I can't even be arsed, you're so far away from the truth that there is no point engaging with you.

[Red Hot]

David Moore's without a shadow of doubt. He was born with a silver spoon in his gob. His old man bought his numerous businesses which all failed and went bust, ie Powerboat and high performance cars etc. He ran away while his wife was drowning from a myserious acceident.

In inherrited LFC and from that day on LFC has declined, as did the John Moores empire. Then for an extra £8M in his kitty, he sells out to H & G, under the guidance of Parry. Parry that piece of sh-t don't get me started on him. niether of them should set foot in merseyside ever again never mind Anfield.

[Thants]

It's so wrong it's gotta be a wind up. Going on a Liverpool board and stating Dalglish ruined the club?

[The Owld Fecker]

why you on here if you Support Sunderland ??

 

Because I enjoy banter and Liverpool were always my "second team".

 

I assume you are still at school - I think that most older supporters will understand.

[Red Hot]

It's so wrong it's gotta be a wind up. Going on a Liverpool board and stating Dalglish ruined the club?

 

Dalglish always did his best for LFC as both player and manager. The only problem that I can see with Dalglish was under his hour of need he didn't get the correct backing from the board!

[Uncle_Meat]

Istvan Kozma.

[Whelan]

Souness.

 

Sorry but nothing and no-one else comes close to what that prick did to the club, in three years he managed to rip the clup apart from the top to the bottom.

 

Kenny, was sick and needed a rest, but in his last year he had bought Redknapp, Don, Harkness and rumour has it, had spotted Rob Jones, he had realised the need for more English players and had set about developing the youth team. Souness just spent moneyon shite and relied upon the youth team.

 

Other than that I agree with Ted.

[G Richards]

Welcome our Mackem friend. You are more than entitled to your opinion and it makes a nice change to chat with a fan from another team.

 

Who is responsible for Liverpool's demise?

 

I think the right answer is many people.

 

Moores

You might say Moores is the biggest culprit. Under his ownership we didn't capitalise commercially and from a previous position of being able to compete financially at the top end of the market we slipped back, while Man Utd capitalised on the money in the Prem era and things came together for them. Moores then did his worst by selling to a couple of asset strippers; leveraged buy-out specialists who are the wrong owners for us in every imaginable way. The club is in huge trouble right now under these owners, and the wider media have only really caught on to that in glimpses. A much tastier story is to stick the boot in on Rafa.

 

Souness

The next biggest culprit is Souness. He undid loads of things at Liverpool and brought in some really poor players. Whenever things have been bad under Houllier or Rafa, we only need look back to Souness' days to get some perspective on how bad it could have been. I think Souness wanted the best for Liverpool, and he did try, but I just don't think the man-management skills are there. He can bully lesser players and do a respectable job at a mid table outfit, but he doesn't have the nous to harness thoroughbreds.

 

Alex Ferguson

The next man responsible for Liverpool's demise is Alex Ferguson. This will be an unpopular thing to say with my fellow reds on here, but this man has single handedly built winning team after winning team after winning team. He is old school and ruthless, but he has steered Man Utd from also rans in the 70s and 80s to the top team of the past two decades. He is the reason why Man Utd now stand level with us on 18 league titles. They were lucky to get him. Of course, it all could have ended before it got started, so you might want to add Mark Robbins a minor role as a man being responsible for Liverpool's demise.

 

Kenny Dalglish

I will mention Kenny, but only because you did. Kenny is, rightly, a legend at Anfield. He was one of our best players ever (perhaps the best) and he went straight into the manager's chair as his playing career wound down and went toe to toe with Fergie (I remember Kenny holding up his daughter and saying to the interviewer 'you'll get more sense out of her than Fergie'). Kenny comfortably got the better of Fergie and under different circumstances it could easily have been Dalglish with the 20+ years of managerial dynasty at Liverpool - and we'd be on about 30 titles now. Kenny did make some suspect decisions but that should not be overplayed. The thing that most affected him was, of course, Hillsborough. Something broke deep inside him and he was never the same in my eyes. He came back and won the league with Blackburn, and he also guided Newcastle to second spot (how they would love that now!)

 

I wouldn't say Kenny is responsible in any way for our demise, but were it not for Hillsborough I think he would be the Scottish managerial legend with multiple titles and Alex Ferguson would be that bloke who won something with Aberdeen but didn't quite make it down here.

Edited November 6, 2009 by G Richards

[Hermes]

My, personal, candidate would be Dalglish - Controversial, maybe, so please let me explain.

 

Prior to his appointment players that were signed were, normally, consigned to your reserves, to learn to play the "Liverpool way".

 

 

When Kenny resigned we were top of the league, he couldn't have been any higher.

 

As for the comment in bold, that can be explained by the quality of his signings. Look through the list ++ / LFChistory.net -- Past Present Future, not many expensive failures there and several Liverpool legends.

 

I'm glad you put "demise" in quotations. Since Kenny resigned only Man Utd and Arsenal have won more trophies than Liverpool. Even in recent times, Steve Gerrard has won more trophies for instance than any player in Everton's history and probably more than 95% of other clubs.

 

Plenty of clubs would love to have suffered such a demise.

[G Richards]

Well said Hermes. Puts the 'demise' thing into perspective.

[Ginny]

Lucas

[RedinSweden]

Dave Usher.

 

Good post hermes. I did spend half an hour looking for the pun though.

[Delmar]

I hate Sunderland.