Who was responsible for the "demise" of Liverpool?

[The Owld Fecker]

Oi Grandad, you might get more respect if you didn't go 'round dissin the kids. These lads have been brought up on the greatest footie Europe has to offer. We've seen the best players in the world play in L4. Your knowledge of the Liverpool team pre-Sky can be little more than MOTD and Saint & Greavsie.

 

Ok m8 - seems to be your style.

 

I ain't dissin no one.

 

I has respect for yuur club.

 

More than u!

[Strontium]

Hillsborough. Simple as that. You can blame Moores, Souness, money and lack of commercial nous all you want, the fact is all our 'problems' can be traced back to that day. It ripped the heart and soul out of the club and fanbase, which we're still recovering from.

 

 

Yes, you're quite correct. The question should not be who but what. Hillsborough and, to a lesser extent, Heysel.

[Cath]

Ok m8 - seems to be your style.

 

I ain't dissin no one.

 

I has respect for yuur club.

 

More than u!

 

And you work that out how exactly?

[The Owld Fecker]

You're right, you have a vast superior knowledge from seeing us play twice a season and in 5 minute highlights on MOTD every week.

 

Please, educate me on my football club.

 

Ok.

 

I will take that request as I see it.

 

Liverpool is spelt with a capital letter.

 

What would you like to know next?

 

Information about Smith, Case, Callaghan?

 

Grow up!

[zigackly]

You could be the next Sinatra.

[Funkasy]

no one mention Lucas yet ? strange.

[Delmar]

You could be the next Sinatra.

 

If I were him, I'd get scared now, seriously scared. He does not know what he might be unleashing.

[The Owld Fecker]

If I were him, I'd get scared now, seriously scared. He does not know what he might be unleashing.

 

Tuch,tuch kiddo!

 

I added 100 punches to his face!

 

;)

[Delmar]

Tuch,tuch kiddo!

 

I added 100 punches to his face!

 

;)

 

Why bother, but you are obviously old, and hopefully not a 100% WUM. If you're a WUM, you know about Sinatra. It was not pretty. If you're not a WUM, you should find out about Sinatra. It was not pretty.

 

And BTW, I hate Sunderland.

[Liverpool lad]

We have won a fair few trophies since we last won the lague so I think demise is a bit of an emotive word to use. I think all the relevant points have been covered so far in this thread. Some might answer this question next year and include Rafa in it.

[Little Sammy]

Moores.

 

End of.

[Dicko]

Hillsborough is what changed everything for us, and what it did off the field is what we rightly focus on.

 

But it wouldn't have had the same impact on the field if only the board of the time had thought it through a bit. Ronnie Moran should have been caretaker until Kenny had been given enough time to rest.

 

That might have been time for him to mend relationships with any players in those many rumours, but even if it hadn't and he'd come back and sold them it would have only been a small number.

 

But Graeme Souness came in. And sold practically everyone. He was too arrogant to risk getting any accusations that he'd only won the league because he'd inherited Kenny's side. So he set about ensuring we'd never win the league again. (At least that's how it looks when you look back).

 

Players bought:

 

Dean Saunders: 2,900,000

Neil Ruddock: 2,500,000

Paul Stewart: 2,300,000

Nigel Clough: 2,275,000

Mark Wright: 2,200,000

Michael Thomas: 1,500,000

Mark Walters: 1,250,000

David James: 1,000,000

Stig Inge Bjornebye: 600,000

Torben Piechnik: 500,000

Istvan Kozma: 300,000

Rob Jones: 300,000

Lee Jones: 300,000

Scott Patterson: 25,000

Julian Dicks: (Swap deal, Marsh and Burrows)

 

Players sold:

Dean Saunders: 2,300,000

Steve Staunton: 1,100,000

Peter Beardsley: 1,000,000

Gary Gillespie: 925,000

Ray Houghton: 900,000

Steve McMahon: 900,000

Gary Ablett: 750,000

Mike Hooper: 550,000

Jimmy Carter: 500,000

David Speedie: 400,000

Barry Venison: 250,000

Ronny Rosenthal: 250,000

Istvan Kozma 0

Glenn Hysen 0

Mike Marsh (Part-ex for Dicks)

David Burrows (Part-ex for Dicks)

 

Total Buys 17,950,000

 

Total Sales 9,825,000

 

 

Neil Ruddock was one of the biggest (arsed) problems at LFC from the time he arrived. Compare him and his pound-passing to Gillespie, who Souness got rid of.

 

Two words. Paul Fucking Stewart. 2.3million. That was big money then. People were laughing all around us when it turned out not to be tabloid bollocks, that we really were going to pay all that money for all that shit.

 

Probably his best buy was Rob Jones. He completely obliterated any credit for that though by swapping Mike Marsh and David Burrows for Julian Dicks.

 

He sold Staunton when he was still really good. Houghton still had a fair bit of football in him. Why get rid of McMahon?

 

When he arrived we had a squad that at worst needed a few changes, a little bit of freshening up maybe where the older players were concerned. Instead he just ripped it apart, replaced it with complete shite and then when he finally fucked off we had the biggest rebuilding task in front of us since the day Shanks agreed to come and manage us.

 

Souness gets the blame from me.

Both wanted to leave.

Houghton's wife wanted a move back to London so much they moved to Birmingham.

[RedLiberation!]

Words cannot express how sickened I am by the two cancers at our club.

 

I was know for a number of years as "the one who utterly despised David Moores".

And so many people couldn't understand why I hated his very existence.

To say I despise him for who he sold our club to is a HUGE understatement.

 

But our utter destruction is the 2 sewer rats. Moores would be very worthy of the 3rd bullet.

 

I was actually pleased we fucked up in Europe in some strange way. Hopefully the rats will panic and lower the price. Hopefully the idiots will realise that we cannot stand by.

 

As long as Reds still care, the disease can be removed.

[col06]

Because I enjoy banter and Liverpool were always my "second team".

 

I assume you are still at school - I think that most older supporters will understand.

 

more like you enjoy being a WUM supporters whatever age will understand that

[torahboy]

Hillsborough is what changed everything for us, and what it did off the field is what we rightly focus on.

 

But it wouldn't have had the same impact on the field if only the board of the time had thought it through a bit. Ronnie Moran should have been caretaker until Kenny had been given enough time to rest.

 

That might have been time for him to mend relationships with any players in those many rumours, but even if it hadn't and he'd come back and sold them it would have only been a small number.

 

But Graeme Souness came in. And sold practically everyone. He was too arrogant to risk getting any accusations that he'd only won the league because he'd inherited Kenny's side. So he set about ensuring we'd never win the league again. (At least that's how it looks when you look back).

 

Players bought:

 

Dean Saunders: 2,900,000

Neil Ruddock: 2,500,000

Paul Stewart: 2,300,000

Nigel Clough: 2,275,000

Mark Wright: 2,200,000

Michael Thomas: 1,500,000

Mark Walters: 1,250,000

David James: 1,000,000

Stig Inge Bjornebye: 600,000

Torben Piechnik: 500,000

Istvan Kozma: 300,000

Rob Jones: 300,000

Lee Jones: 300,000

Scott Patterson: 25,000

Julian Dicks: (Swap deal, Marsh and Burrows)

 

Players sold:

Dean Saunders: 2,300,000

Steve Staunton: 1,100,000

Peter Beardsley: 1,000,000

Gary Gillespie: 925,000

Ray Houghton: 900,000

Steve McMahon: 900,000

Gary Ablett: 750,000

Mike Hooper: 550,000

Jimmy Carter: 500,000

David Speedie: 400,000

Barry Venison: 250,000

Ronny Rosenthal: 250,000

Istvan Kozma 0

Glenn Hysen 0

Mike Marsh (Part-ex for Dicks)

David Burrows (Part-ex for Dicks)

 

Total Buys 17,950,000

 

Total Sales 9,825,000

 

 

Neil Ruddock was one of the biggest (arsed) problems at LFC from the time he arrived. Compare him and his pound-passing to Gillespie, who Souness got rid of.

 

Two words. Paul Fucking Stewart. 2.3million. That was big money then. People were laughing all around us when it turned out not to be tabloid bollocks, that we really were going to pay all that money for all that shit.

 

Probably his best buy was Rob Jones. He completely obliterated any credit for that though by swapping Mike Marsh and David Burrows for Julian Dicks.

 

He sold Staunton when he was still really good. Houghton still had a fair bit of football in him. Why get rid of McMahon?

 

When he arrived we had a squad that at worst needed a few changes, a little bit of freshening up maybe where the older players were concerned. Instead he just ripped it apart, replaced it with complete shite and then when he finally fucked off we had the biggest rebuilding task in front of us since the day Shanks agreed to come and manage us.

 

Souness gets the blame from me.

 

 

 

What I always remember is Souness, when he took the manager's job, stated that he felt he had inherited ""arguably, the best squad of players in the country". One argument with himself that he appeared to lose. And when you look at the spending power he had, and what he actually spent, in relative terms it must have been greater than Rafa's.

 

Just looking at the above list makes me fucking well fume.

[Dicko]

Fair enough, if players want to leave then there's no point trying too hard to change their minds. Might be worth asking yourself if it's your fault, but there'll always be some who can't handle a big change.

 

But you lose two players like that, two players who'd made as much of a contribution as they did, you can't afford to lose too many more.

 

Indeed, Houghton wasn't a crowd favourite but he was player of the year in his last season.

 

Mcmahon & Souness never saw eye to eye on anything to be fair.

 

It's fair to say though that your general point stands, as even the players who wanted to leave were probably trying to get away from Souness as much as the club.

[RedLiberation!]

Hmm it seems a long time ago now, the Souness era.

 

The end of the Kenny era, he could see there were ageing players.

Souness inherited but didn't have the money to spend that he was expecting.

Plus there was the utter nonsense of non English player stipulations.

 

His plan was 3 foreign superstars and( inevitably) having to play some utter dross from England.

 

He sold Houghton because he didn't have enough money available to give a wage increase.McMahon I believe, there were queries re his longterm fitness level post a major injury.

 

So it was shit finances, shit UEFA rules, stronger rivals, and his own personal cuntishness.

But he's almost a Saviour compared to the two slugs we have now.

[Dicko]

Hmm it seems a long time ago now, the Souness era.

 

The end of the Kenny era, he could see there were ageing players.

Souness inherited but didn't have the money to spend that he was expecting.

Plus there was the utter nonsense of non English player stipulations.

 

His plan was 3 foreign superstars and( inevitably) having to play some utter dross from England.

 

He sold Houghton because he didn't have enough money available to give a wage increase.McMahon I believe, there were queries re his longterm fitness level post a major injury.

 

So it was shit finances, shit UEFA rules, stronger rivals, and his own personal cuntishness.

But he's almost a Saviour compared to the two slugs we have now.

 

He broke the British transfer record for a defender (Wright £2.2m) and then for any player (Saunders £2.9m) in the same week. Just how much more was he expecting.

[Kevin D]

[RedLiberation!]

When Wright settled in he was great.Shame about his injuries.

 

Deano, we didn't lose a huge lot on. We were robbed of the fastpaced Barnes, and the other clubs ( Europe and Britain) began roaring ahead financially.

 

It wasn't enough cash to be number one in England, let alone Europe.

All the "spare" cash went to make a crap old stadium, modern and crap.

 

Pay for the best, and u get the best. Other than the odd blip ( eg Porto and the Champions League) that is ALWAYS the case. Much as Sourness was a cock, he can't be blamed that much.

 

Now if we're talking Roy Evans... :whistle:

[Liverpool lad]

[Carlos Durninio]

When Wright settled in he was great.Shame about his injuries.

 

Deano, we didn't lose a huge lot on. We were robbed of the fastpaced Barnes, and the other clubs ( Europe and Britain) began roaring ahead financially.

 

It wasn't enough cash to be number one in England, let alone Europe.

All the "spare" cash went to make a crap old stadium, modern and crap.

 

Pay for the best, and u get the best. Other than the odd blip ( eg Porto and the Champions League) that is ALWAYS the case. Much as Sourness was a cock, he can't be blamed that much.

 

Now if we're talking Roy Evans... :whistle:

 

Complete bollocks from start to finish, especially about other clubs 'roaring ahead financially'. The mancs apart, who were always well off, we were among the biggest spenders in the league right up until Chelsea changed the footballing landscape forever.

 

Anfield has never been crap either and is still one of the best grounds in the country.

 

If you've got something to say about Roy Evans, a great servant to the club, who brought us out of the doldrums of the Souness years, lets hear it.

 

The problem with the internet is it give people with no frame of reference a platform to spout rubbish about any topic they fancy, even if they rewrite history in the process.

[RedLiberation!]

Complete bollocks from start to finish, especially about other clubs 'roaring ahead financially'. The mancs apart, who were always well off, we were among the biggest spenders in the league right up until Chelsea changed the footballing landscape forever.

 

Anfield has never been crap either and is still one of the best grounds in the country.

 

If you've got something to say about Roy Evans, a great servant to the club, who brought us out of the doldrums of the Souness years, lets hear it.

 

The problem with the internet is it give people with no frame of reference a platform to spout rubbish about any topic they fancy, even if they rewrite history in the process.

 

Oh Anfield isn't crap is it? Duhh, all those hundreds of millions were gonna be wasted were they ?:whatever: Just as well your bosses "Tom and George" rescued us then ... :whatever: (sarcasm)

 

Why don't you just go back to Texas and report to your boss "Honest" Tommy? :whatever:

 

Judging from that you must be another Jamie Kanwank. Or David Moores.

 

I think its abundantly clear why this club is in its death knell currently.

So who do u blame? Two cancerous fraudsters, or someone else?

 

( Like I remotely care what u have to say, after that drivel..)

[Kevin D]

 

Negged. The tears flowed in my house the day Igor left.

[INTORRESTING]

Moores and Souness

We were the best for 20 years, we should have built a stadium, jumped on the sky bandwagon and dominated

 

Our history is what we are about but it also hurt us as the bootroom policy failed us.