European Football RIP

[philyhamann]

UEFA will find some way to shift the balance back to Italy/Spain.

[Fugitive]

I think it will be bad news for English Football in the long term for one horrible cunt of a reason....

 

Platini.

 

He will not rest until we are back in an era where the Spanish and Italian teams are dominant.

 

I predict his next proposed rule change will include 'no players with the following names are allowed to compete in England... Torres, Gerrard, Ballack, Essien, Ronaldo, Rooney, Van Persie and Fabrigas plus all English teams must play without Keepers in Europe'.

[The Thong]

They play a much more intelligent way now, post Quiroz.

 

GK - Better then

CB- Miles better now

FB- Better now- Evra especially

Outlet winger- Miles better now. Giggs was good, but he was never the best player in the world which LadyBoy was last year.

CM- Better then but play deeper & more intelligently now

Attack- Berbatov,Tevez & Rooney shit on their 4 strikers then.

 

This is their best ever team.

 

It is more rounded as opposed to the passion, flkat-track bully sides which used to invariably get found out in Europe.

 

 

That's absolutely right. Ince Keane, Robson Keane or Robson Ince was more powerful but power is nothing in Europe without intelligence and now they have that. That is why they were so shockingly shit in Europe yest so dominant in the EPL.

 

As for Chelsea, they are just as good as they were two years ago. Only a fool would think otherwise. Carvalho and Essien are two massive players for them and they are now back. I'm not comparing them for like for like but they are as important to Chelsea as Nando and Gerrard are to us. When MoanyHo won his two EPLs Terry, Cavalho was the outstanding defence. Essien was probably the most consistent top level box-to-box midfielder in the EPL.

 

The fact that Hiddink is turning around Chelsea is further proof that money does not buy you titles, it merely gives you a better tool box (Ranieri, Grant, Scolari ...), but that the manager is the most important peice in the jigsaw (in fact IMO it further enhances MoanyHo's rep). I have no doubt that the Chavs will come good. Hiddink even has Queresma playing well and he was dogshit at Inter. Le Arse are also only a couple of notches below. Don't underestimate Winger, the Gooners are two plus a goaly away from an awesome squad. They will come good, that squad has too much talent.

 

Currently, English football has the right mix of power, intensity and intellgence.

 

Only Sacchi's Milan of the 90's had that same blend and I would even say that Zidane's Juventus would also get beat by us, Chavs and the Mancs.

[jackofdk]

I read a good article about italian football's decline in Wall Street Journals online version. It's a pretty good read if you ignore the use of the word "soccer".

 

Why Can't Italy Beat England in Soccer? - WSJ.com

 

I especially like this pseudo scientific explanation from Vialli:

 

Gianluca Vialli, 44, a former star striker for Juventus and the Italian national team who went on to coach for Chelsea in England, thinks these stylistic differences have historical roots. "The British are islanders who conquered and colonized throughout their history. After the Roman Empire, Italians have always been invaded and dominated, so we had to learn how to defend ourselves. We developed a very shrewd mindset where I defend myself but in the meantime I quietly move my pawns underground."

[hamstrung]

Happens in cycles.

[The 5th Benitel]

When we got back into Europe and were getting twatted by Spanish and Italian teams there were endless debates about why they're so much more technically gifted etc. Now we've bridged the gap and we're the dominant force people are saying 'it's shit how the other teams aren't as good as us anymore'.

 

This country is nuts. I wonder how many Italians were moaning that their league was too good when the Milan teams met in the final with Juve going out in the semis.

[Barrington Womble]

This says to me that you rarely watch the Italian League, i maybve wrong though. For me its really developing and will be for at least two more years, their current venture into the champs league for Juve was a big step for them they havent had that sort of exprience in a long time. The likes of Pato, Giovinco, Hamsik, Levazzi, Thiago Silva, Santon etc are all breathing a new life into Serie A and it looks likely to continue. Their whole footballing atittude has changed it isnt so defensive it looks to play football and not just based around tactics and all of these changes and developments need time.

 

As in 2010 they the top four i think have signed a tv deal that will be worth more the premiership, i think i even heard it will be the most in the world, this is likely to keep many of the stars and payers and their current clubs as they will be able to afford bigger contracts and fees etc.

 

Their are two leagues that are really becoming a joke and that is the french and dutch they are simple shite and to be ohnest its sad to see. Maybe like Italy they will rebound one day but it isnt going to be soon.

 

Italy is far from dead in fact we should be looking over our shoulder as they are coming.

 

I thought the top clubs TV deals were pretty good now - they sell their own rights don't they?

[3 Colours Red]

As has been said, it goes in cycles. Spain, Holland, Italy have all had there time at the top. Even Eastern Europe dominated at one time. In the 1970's Red Star Belgrade gave Liverpool a footballing lesson.

[Red Phoenix]

Barca on their day would wipe the floor with all of us. Remember I said on their day, if we played to our best at the same time it'd be a brilliant match, and I don't think anyone could really say who'd win.

 

Happens in cycles.

 

Agreed, but the powerwhores at FIFA and UEFA probably won't want to let things naturally happen. They're bound to fuck things up because they're probably too impatient, and want to be seen as big powerful men changing things and being the saviours of the other countries.

[havarantagain]

UEFA will find some way to shift the balance back to Italy/Spain.

 

I minor incident will lead to all the english clubs being banned for a thousand years.

[Red Phoenix]

Hamann is Burkil with a namechange isn't he? I've not been on much lately.

 

edit :nm, he's a trekkie I think, the avatar confirms it. :D

[Dave D]

Happens in cycles.

 

Agreed. Uefa will find some way of balancing it out. Either that or a couple of zillionaires will buy Lazio and Chievo!! You heard it here first.

 

Its great for us to enjoy the glory at the moment but it does seem that the big European clubs seem to be in decline.

In many ways its thier own fault after years of putting all their eggs in one basket and blowing their whole budget each summer on one big name. Not forgetting the match fixing and hooliganism and sacking the manager every 3 weeks.

 

Last night the top dogs of Italy played United and started with Viera.The guys a legend but not up to that kind of intensity anymore. I suppose the real big names are going to continue to head here for the wages. Surprising given the weather!!

 

Anyway, much as Ive enjoyed the past 3/4 European campaigns, Im still gunning for revenge over Genoa and Branca and his long free kicks. They cant hide forever!!

[The Acolyte]

Yes it happens in cycles but I can't see a Belgian team dominating again.

As for French football. That died on its arse the day Marseille decided to cheat, The French people don't like being taken for mugs, unlike the Italians who prefer winning at any cost. Not being racist its just fact.

The fans stuck with Milan and Juventus and the rest with match fixing of the 70's and of a few years ago. What happened to Marseille's?

What happened to the French league after that?

Don't they hold a record of being the first national team that won the world cup not having a single player that actually played in Franch?

Anyway, the only way I can see it going pear shaped for the English teams is if changes are made to the number of foreigners or "home grown " players in the team. Another reason for Rafa's obsession with the Academy?

Have the managers got wind of a rule change.

[Kevin D]

Is right and it's a massive shame too. What are fucking Chelsea doing putting out Juve in their own back garden? United strolled past Inter in the San Siro and I can't think of a single place we've been outplayed in Europe since Rafa took over ( Liege apart).

 

As an admirer of clubs like Milan it's very disappointing to see not to mention that having all 4 English teams in the QF takes away the special atmosphere of the European cup.

 

 

We would snot Barca over 2 legs, but if they were in England they'd walk the league. They're fucking amazing going forward. We'd beat them because we're a more clever, more tactically aware team, they're far more talented though.

 

I reckon we'd walk their league and win it at a canter.

[Vincent Vega]

Good article from Henry Winter in tomorrow's Telegraph on this subject (disagree about the 2003 final between Milan and Juventus being awful though, the football was brilliant for the first 75 minutes, despite being scoreless):

 

Plenty for Michel Platini to admire as Premier League rules

 

The Premier League has come up with a cunning plan for playing its controversial '39th game', the money-spinning competitive match between English clubs on foreign soil. It is called the Champions League final.

 

By Henry Winter

Last Updated: 9:13PM GMT 12 Mar 2009

 

The joke being told in English footballing circles yesterday will certainly not elicit any laughter on reaching the sensitive ears of Michel Platini. Uefa's president does not want his beloved Champions League becoming the Premier League on tour.

 

But after years in the cold, following the Heysel ban, and then Manchester United's early travails in the Champions League, including all those dispiriting trips to Italy, all those breakaway goals by Alen Boksic, English football should be allowed to revel in its moment in the sun.

 

United famously prevailed in 1999 but the Age of the Enlightened English really started with Liverpool's victory in 2005 with an English presence in the final ever since, including United's triumph over Chelsea last year. Following a fruitful midweek, Liverpool, United, Chelsea and Arsenal are all through to the quarter-finals. If Platini's hopes are realised by the luck of the draw next week, and some of the Fab Four are pitted against each other, at least Uefa will know that the broadcasters who pay their bills will be drooling in anticipation.

 

If English clubs were combining to produce turgid encounters, as Milan and Juventus did in a 2003 final so scarily awful it should not have been allowed to start until after the 9pm watershed, then Platini's fears about the English hegemony would have more substance.

 

As a lover of beautiful football, Platini should surely have relished the effervescent way Liverpool dismantled Real Madrid. He may also have noted that Pepe, the Brazilian centre-half Real lavished £25 million on, was constantly embarrassed by Steven Gerrard, nurtured for nothing by Liverpool.

 

Just as Madrid were pre-eminent for a decade or more, just as Ajax, Bayern Munich and Milan enjoyed golden eras, so the English clubs are currently replicating the prominence of Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa from 1977 to 1984. Football is full of cycles and the Italians and Spanish will doubtless come good again.

 

The common sense that flows through many of Arsene Wenger's observations was apparent in yesterday's remark that English clubs "mustn't be fooled'' into believing they have checked permanently into Shangri La. Heartbreak Hotel could be the next destination. Wenger pointed out the closeness of the midweek games against Italian opposition, Arsenal even requiring penalties to defeat Roma.

 

Barcelona are still around to rock the English boat. Inspired by Thierry Henry, Samuel Eto'o and Lionel Messi, luminaries who were hardly born in the shadow of La Sagrada Familia, Barcelona could prevail in the Rome final, triggering a debate of "why La Liga's better than the Premier League?'' Football is fickle.

 

Wealth helps yet Madrid have spent fortunes and struggle. If invested wisely, as Rafael Benitez did with Fernando Torres, money clearly can bring dividends on the pitch and the wages on offer add to the Premier League's honey-pot allure. The quality of coaching is also exceptional with Benitez, Wenger, Guus Hiddink and Sir Alex Ferguson all astute tacticians. This combination of top-class managers and accomplished players means the Premier League is irresistible. For now.

 

Other factors add to "the English are coming'' headlines. Because of the physical demands of the Premier League, players train harder. Skill is not enough, the stamina of a player such as Wayne Rooney is impressive. After Inter's 2-0 loss at Old Trafford, Jose Mourinho talked of the "intensity'' of United's football. In terms of athleticism, pace and power, the Premier League has moved the game up a gear. In terms of psychology, English clubs have also shed their fear. United, Chelsea and Liverpool now believe they will succeed.

 

Scarcely had Claudio Ranieri, Juventus coach, taken his seat at Monday's press conference in Turin then he was asked by a local reporter: "Why do Italian teams have an inferiority complex against the English.'' It used to be the other way round.

 

For all the champagne corks whizzing across the landscape of English football, the evisceration of Madrid and vanquishing of Serie A clubs like Roma, Inter and Juventus cannot mask the reality that Spain won Euro 2008, a tournament England failed to qualify for, while the Italians are champions of the world.

 

The trick for the English now is to build national success on the back of club achievements. Enough good players have emerged. Rooney's skill in creating space, throwing Maicon off-balance and then crossing for Cristiano Ronaldo to score was exceptional. Rio Ferdinand and Michael Carrick have matured into class European acts.

 

Gerrard's composed penalty and stunning shot took Real's breath away. Theo Walcott converted his spot-kick in Rome. Frank Lampard has been outstanding for Chelsea. Ashley Cole, when behaving himself, is a first-class left-back. Fabio Capello has talent to work with.

 

Of course, many will be exhausted by the 2010 World Cup, some will be hobbling with snapped metatarsals while the proliferation of overseas goalies keeps prospects such as Ben Foster and Joe Hart on the bench. But Capello appears to possess the ability to work on players' minds, filling them full of confidence so that they perform for their country as they do for their clubs.

[Monkeywool]

I read a good article about italian football's decline in Wall Street Journals online version. It's a pretty good read if you ignore the use of the word "soccer".

 

Why Can't Italy Beat England in Soccer? - WSJ.com

 

I especially like this pseudo scientific explanation from Vialli:

 

Gianluca Vialli, 44, a former star striker for Juventus and the Italian national team who went on to coach for Chelsea in England, thinks these stylistic differences have historical roots. "The British are islanders who conquered and colonized throughout their history. After the Roman Empire, Italians have always been invaded and dominated, so we had to learn how to defend ourselves. We developed a very shrewd mindset where I defend myself but in the meantime I quietly move my pawns underground."

 

We have been conquered more times than Danielle Smith.

[Lupin]

Three of the 'top four' are in decline too though and yet they're smashing their way through Europe - season in and season out - like a wrecking ball.

 

Chelsea are an inferior side to what they were two-three years back, so are we, so are the arse. In terms of personnel - the Mancs are a shadow of their late 90s treble winning side, not a patch on them in the slightest - yet winning at home and abroad has become almost pedestrian to them.

 

Something is seriously wrong with the game, the quality has gone.

 

Chelsea are not as good as a couple of years back, the mancs are still good but certainly not unbeatable and the Arse are struggling to be convincing - all true...but to say we are not as good a two-three years back, I'd agree - I think we're a sod of a lot better.

 

Despite too many draws in the league this year, overall we're the only ones who are actually progressing on what we were.

[RSM]

We would snot Barca over 2 legs, but if they were in England they'd walk the league. They're fucking amazing going forward. We'd beat them because we're a more clever, more tactically aware team, they're far more talented though.

 

I think they'd struggle at the back big time. Teams with any sort of ariel threat will cause them no end of problems. They'd be a better version of Arsenal going forward but even worse at the back.

[redrosetints]

All the European superpowers are now shit.

 

Discuss.

 

Its all in cycles isnt it. Some may argue that this was true in the late 70s early 80s, do we believe that ? I dont.

 

Certainly Spain isnt as strong as it was, but i thought the Italian teams stood their ground last week. Juve and Roma were both close to going through, whilst Inter had united on the back foot for most of the first half and had they had someone other than 'best striker in the world' Zlatan, they'd have probably won the game.

 

A few years back it was Spain in the ascendency, then Italy, now us, in time it will change.

[redrosetints]

European Super League ?

 

Reuters - Today, 12:50

 

 

PARIS - UEFA is prepared to discuss plans from European teams to create a continental league to replace the Champions League and UEFA Cup, its president Michel Platini was quoted as saying on Tuesday.

The European Club Association (ECA), which represents 137 leading teams such as Manchester United and Real Madrid, talked about a "Super League" during a meeting last week in Nyon, Switzerland, France Football reported.

Italy's Gazzetta dello Sport said the project also had some backing from within UEFA.

The Super League would be made up of three divisions with 20 to 22 clubs in each tier, the two newspapers said. Promotion and relegation would occur between the divisions each season.

"Everybody knows my philosophy about European competitions...but the world is changing and we must be careful about that," Platini told France Football.

"If it was up to me, I would revert to European Cups as they were at the beginning, with just knockout rounds. But we must listen carefully to any suggestion. If (clubs) come and talk to us, we would listen to them and then decide."

Gazzetta said the global economic crisis had prompted the often-mooted Super League idea to resurface but gave no indication over when advocates wanted the tournament to start.

European domestic leagues would remain if a Super League ever got the go-ahead, Gazzetta said, but the number of matches in individual championships would have to be reduced so that top clubs could play in both competitions.

The UEFA Cup is being rebranded as the Europa League next season.

[Barrington Womble]

i never understand how these super leagues work though - so if we move to a league where there is promotion and relegation from, how will teams qualify? And do they not get, the knockouts are actually better viewing for the neutrals?

[WaltonRed]

If it aint broke dont fix it.

[Original202]

Platini is also open to the idea of a straight knock out according to what was on SSN at lunchtime, but he knows it wouldn't be popular.

 

I had an idea about it going back to knock out every round, with no group stage. But, there'd be an extra round 1 for the losers to play each other so they all get a second chance.

 

e.g

 

Round 1

 

Liverpool v Standard Liege (Liverpool win and progress to round 2)

Real Madrid v Partizan Belgrade (Real win and progress...)

 

Round 1a

 

Standard Liege v Partizan Belgrade (Liege win and progress to round 2)

 

From round 2 onwards it's knock out as normal.

 

The extra round for the losers means they have a second chance, but it also gives them 2 guaranteed home games which guarantees them some revenue.

 

I don't know how many teams you'd need in round 1 to make the maths work but I can't see it ever going to a straight knock out as teams like the guarantee of the 6 group games. My way is a bit of a compromise.

[Section_31]

Money money money, must be funny, to leave something the fuck alone.

 

Catchy

[bobhorse]

Its simple 10 or 20 years ago players like Ronaldo Drogba Torres Fabragas Alonso would all be laying in Italy or Spain now the best want to come here partly money partly because the type of football we play and the coverage it gets around the world and the fact that the TV is spread equally rather than individual rights which means that more treams can be competative within the league