Chris Bascombe

[Zippy]

Carra wasn't MOTM, Mascherano was. Javier was head and shoulders above anyone else.

 

 

Fair enough I agree - but I was referring to who was nominated as MOTM.

 

I totally disagree with Dirk's insinuation that Gerrard and Carragher are refusing to do their jobs properly. Carra played right back despite being very ill suited to the role but gave his all and set up a goal in the process so how that can be ot doing his job properly I don't know.

[Original202]

If the clear out of players is true, why the hell did we not sell crouch and risse in January when we might have got a decent fee there contracts are up in 17 months so we'll be lucky to get 50% of there value e.g owen to madrid. What way is the club been run on every level? Rick parry after Mcmanaman left said any player with less than 2 years left on his contract will be sold then we had the Owen fiasco and Gerrard nearly going now crouch and Risse(dont get me wrong i'll be glad to see the back of risse as he's shit, but we turned down a £6m bid for him in the summer we'll be lucky to get half that next summer), Crouich will also go on the cheap, if Darren Bent was worth £16m so was crouch.How the fuck has Parry still got a job, how much money has he cost the club in the years hes been there.

 

Juventus apparently wanted Momo in the summer too and were offering £11m. Ok we still got a good deal with him anyway, but £3m would make a big difference to us.

[Zippy]

That other article is more what I expect from Bascombe and it seems wierd that he contradicts the other article so much, I am hoping that the match report one was changed by the editors or something as it doesn't seem Bascombe's style. Anyway here it is Dirk:

 

Rafa plans summer blood-letting

£40m KOP OUT FOR BENITEZ

By Chris Bascombe

 

RAFAEL BENITEZ'S plan to keep a grip on his Liverpool job involves a £40million summer bloodbath at Anfield.

 

As many as 10 players are earmarked for the cull, providing the Kop boss can convince new-owners-in-waiting DIC to give him another season to transform Liverpool's Premier League form.

 

Benitez's patience has finally run out with the enduring mediocrity of John Arne Riise, Peter Crouch, Harry Kewell and Andriy Voronin.

 

Most surprisingly, Benitez will allow Xabi Alonso to return to Spain after the midfielder fell out of favour with the boss.

 

Alonso signed a new long-term contract last summer and is valued at over £15m by Liverpool — but he's long attracted the interest of La Liga giants Barcelona and Real Madrid.

 

Visit

 

And the capture of Javier Mascherano on a permanent deal will keep Alonso below the Argentinian and skipper Steven Gerrard in the pecking order.

 

Alonso, Riise and Kewell were all left out of the Liverpool squad for Saturday's visit of Sunderland.

 

And although out-of-form Steve Finnan, who only recently signed a new contract, still has time to change Rafa's mind, long-serving legend Sami Hyypia is out of contract in June.

 

Striker Dirk Kuyt's position is under threat after a poor goal return since his £10m move from Feyenoord two years ago. Injury-prone Fabio Aurelio and calamity reserve keeper Charles Itandje are also in line for the axe.

 

Whether Benitez can convince his employers he's the man to lead yet another summer of rebuilding is a different matter altogether.

 

Chaos

 

Players such as Crouch were denied a January move because of the continued uncertainty surrounding the boss.

 

Matters off the pitch have been echoed by ongoing chaos on it — and while Benitez is inevitably making long-term plans, whether he'll be given the chance to see them through looks less certain.

 

A change of ownership AND manager remains more likely before the start of next season.

 

After admitting the plot to sack Benitez, revealed by the News of the World last November, co-owner Tom Hicks has now delivered a U-turn and promised he'll allow Benitez to see out the last two years of his contract.

 

However, few at Anfield believe the relationship between the Americans and Benitez is workable.

 

Prospective owners Dubai International Capital also recognise Benitez's popularity on The Kop and may give him a final chance — but that's not guaranteed.

 

Ally

 

The off-field political battle is crippling the club, with Hicks believing he's overcome the initial storm of protest against his leadership.

 

The Texan's chief ally at Anfield is commercial director Ian Ayre, who was appointed last summer with a view to eventually replacing chief executive Rick Parry.

 

Ayre has been briefing Hicks the fans have been won over by the recent £350m refinancing package — a claim which will be undermined by further demonstrations in the coming weeks.

 

The scale of the Anfield turmoil is unprecedented, but there remain hopes a DIC move will happen in ‘days rather than weeks'.

 

On another note its sad that that guy Ayre rather than revolutionizing our marketing as he was meant to do has merely become Hick's eyes and ears!

[Alias75]

In regards to not selling Crouch and Riise in the window, if we couldnt get replacements for them, its a tough decision because Rafa may think he needs them to get 4th place, and the money we'd lose out on for not getting CL football would be greater than any loss in value for these players.

[Mr T]

 

On another note its sad that that guy Ayre rather than revolutionizing our marketing as he was meant to do has merely become Hick's eyes and ears!

 

'Boyhood red' wasn't he? What a whopper.

[Rashid]

Are is a fucking tit, what an absolute cunt.

[StevieH]

I think Ian Ayre is someone that we should be targetting so that he gets the message back to his friends from across the pond.

[RedPower]

That other article is more what I expect from Bascombe and it seems wierd that he contradicts the other article so much, I am hoping that the match report one was changed by the editors or something as it doesn't seem Bascombe's style. Anyway here it is Dirk:

 

<-Snip->

 

 

This excuse has surpassed the 'but things can change quickly' excuse for allowing journalists in general, and Bascombe in particular, carte blanche to write utter tripe. :D

[RedPower]

Are is a fucking tit, what an absolute cunt.

 

Wasn't it you who said Bascombe has got a hotline to Rafa which he uses daily? Will this hotline now be slightly below freezing?

[Rashid]

Chris must know that Rafa's days are numbered hence why he won't be bothered about the hotline ;)

[zigackly]

Something I don't understand: I can see why people might think Rafa is not the answer in the long term (although I evidently disagree), but how can he not be the answer in the short term? You say you're worried about not finishing fourth: just explain to me how sacking the manager now would help? Who would you appoint as caretaker? What makes you think they would improve results in the short term? Or do you have another permanent candidate in mind? What makes you think they are available and would want the job?

 

I'm calling bullshit on that. If Rafa has to go, do it in the summer when we've either sealed fourth place or not. In the meantime, bite your lip and get behind the team because talk of sacking the manager is not going to help them to play better. Keep your powder dry until you can use it effectively, otherwise you're just shooting wildly in the dark.

 

I also don't fully understand the wailing an gnashing of teeth over the possibility of not clinching CL qualification: did it fuck up Barcelona a few years ago? Can you see Bayenr Munich slipping into mid-table mediocrity? Bullshit. The reason you're worried is that you can see the real problem we've got: those two clubs invested in the squad when they failed to qualify, and came back stronger. We can't afford to under the current owners.

 

The real problem we have is two incompetent, dishonest bunglers in charge of our club who don't know what they're doing and couldn't afford to do it if they did. Address the real problem first and if you want to reassess the situation with the manager in the summer then let's talk about it then.

 

This may not be the most coherent of posts because my head is suffering this morning. Hopefully the point is still clear enough for me not to have to wrangle out every detail over the next few hours, because I'm going back to bed.

[Thants]

Twill be a sad day in the Thants household when Xabi is sold.

[willard grant]

I don't know where to begin with that. It seems to suggest that you think Rafa has been doing his own job as effectively as Carra has been doing his. If you think that, I come back to my first point - I don't know where to begin.

 

How about beginning with two European Cup finals in three years, Paul? How many did we play in all together? What about the FA Cup? Highest point total in the League? Above Wenger's Arsenal twice? Not effective enough?

 

Fucking hell, Paul, we are half a season since Athens and that's it for Rafa?

[Brownie]

I totally agree with what Paul has said in this thread, and he's put it far more eloquently than I ever could.

 

The issue of the ownership is exascerbated by the problems on the pitch IMO, i.e. we're now in shitloads of debt which will become a major problem if we don't manage to secure CL football for next season. I'm surprised that some people can't see the link between the two.

 

We haven't improved enough over the last three and a half years and as sad as it is, the manager has to take responsibility for that. The players stopped believing in him months ago and it's clearly manifested itself on the pitch. I think there's a common misconception about 'losing the players' as well by the way. People are accusing Carra and Gerrard of stopping to try because they have lost faith in Rafa, which couldn't be further from the truth and is an insult to them as well to be honest.

 

When you lose faith in the manager, it doesn't mean you stop trying. It's more of a case of losing an edge - a little 5% that can make a difference, but it isn't something you're consciously doing.

 

There's also a lot of 'no player is bigger than LFC' going on, to which you could also say 'there's no manager bigger than LFC'. Carra and Gerrard had lost faith in GH by the end but they still gave their all - indeed Gerrard was fantastic that season and dragged us kicking and screaming into the CL.

 

It's a worrying development that the players have lost faith in the manager but it's difficult to argue with them and there's also only one way it will end up. If the players lose faith in their boss, you don't allow the manager to sell them all and buy a whole new set of players, you need to bring someone in who the players will respond to and want to play for.

[zigackly]

The issue of the ownership is exascerbated by the problems on the pitch IMO, i.e. we're now in shitloads of debt which will become a major problem if we don't manage to secure CL football for next season. I'm surprised that some people can't see the link between the two.

 

Don't put words in people's mouths. And please explain how you fix the problems on the pitch in time to qualify for the CL by sacking the manager because I don't get it. I don't understand why constantly having a pop at him is going to get us fourth place either.

[Anubis]

The issue of the ownership is exascerbated by the problems on the pitch IMO, i.e. we're now in shitloads of debt which will become a major problem if we don't manage to secure CL football for next season. I'm surprised that some people can't see the link between the two.

Kindly tell me when Rafael Benitez took out loans putting LFC in 'shitloads' of debt. Ta.

[africanherbsman]

You know what? Fuck this shit. I've fucking had it. Gloves are off now.

 

We have a manager with a proven record of WINNING big trophies. 2 La Ligas, 1 European Cup, 1 UEFA Cup, and 1 FA Cup - all in the last 6 years.

 

We have a manager who is hailed by many, and rightly so, as being a tactical genius.

 

This is a guy who has turned Liverpool around into being a force, a real genuine honest to fucking goodness force in Europe. Are we nervous ahead of the Inter tie? Yes. You can also bet your bottom dollar that Inter are shitting a brick at having to play Benitez in a 2 leg Euro tie.

 

I would kindly like to remind you that, despite our history, we have been - for the best part of 15 years (with the honourable exception of 01) - plainly average. How the FUCK have so many Liverpool supporters developed amnesia? Something in the half time beer?

 

THE ONLY FUCKING REASON WE ARE JUMPING UP AND DOWN AT THE START OF THE SEASON, THINKING WE HAVE A CHANCE OF THE LEAGUE, IS BECAUSE RAFA BENITEZ TURNED LIVERPOOL FROM A DISTINCTLY AVERAGE TEAM, TO EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS - AND RUNNERS UP, IN THREE YEARS.

 

So we're not going to win the League this year. Well, get fucking over it. With all the shit Rafa has had to deal with behind the scenes - ON HIS FUCKING OWN BY THE LOOKS OF IT - its not surprising.

 

I'm not one of the "Gerrard is a cunt" brigade. But honestly, if Stevie, or Carra for that matter, think that THEY know better how to get no.19 to Anfield this season, then I'm sorry - they sound about as clueless about footie as Lawro, Redknapp, and many other ex-players.

 

Rafa is the manager. He is not God. He makes mistakes. Whisper it quietly, but Shanks made mistakes too. Fuck it, Bob Paisley misjudged how quickly he needed to rebuild the late 70s side - so we fell from double champions in 79 and 80, to 5th in 81. And in 82, we were lagging far behind by Christmas.

 

But you know what. Bob knew he had misjudged it in 81. He fixed it. We snagged the League in 82, with a great comeback.

 

Because Bob was a top manager.

 

And so is Rafa. If Steve G, Carra, or anyone suddenly thinks that someone who could drag an average Liverpool to Champions League finals year after year is not - THEN THEY'RE WRONG. We are NOT going back to the Spice Boys days. The manager is the boss. The players shut the fuck up and play. The rest of us get behind the manager, and support the team.

 

Thems the rules. Follow them, or fuck off.

 

Good post that, and I agree with most of it. My opinion only differs from yours in the sense that I am in the "Gerrard is a cunt" brigade, great player though he is. Gerrard going running to Bascombe doesn't really surprise me as I and many other reds realised he was a selfish, arrogant, tosser back in the summer of 2004. He spent most of yesterday's game with his hands on his hips complaining about miss placed passes from team mates, in short he hasn't looked happy for weeks. I'm disappointed in Carragher though, to backstab Rafa in this way and further undermine his position at the club at a time when management, playing staff and fans need to be united is disgraceful. Like you say if they're not happy then they know where the door is. If Carra is pissed off at playing right back then maybe he should consider putting a decent performance in at centre back because he's been shite for the best part of this season.

 

Bascombe deserves credit for exposing the yanks for what they are but this report does our club no favours and if it was written by a London hack then it would be treated with the disdain that it deserves. Can someone please tell me why he has go at Skrtel? This is a lad who has started one game before yesterday, he wasn't great on his debut by all accounts but was solid yesterday and did not look out of place. Whatever happened to giving new players time Chris? The way he mis-represents the protest is completely out of order and stinks of agenda driven journalism, he knows full well why us supporters stayed behind last night yet he implies we were making a stand against the manager. I'd be lying if he said I wasn't in any way concerned by Rafa's decisions and state of mind at the moment but he's pretty much the only one at the club fighting for the values of the club and for that alone he's got my support.

[gkmacca]

Bascombe is now being paid to deliver regular 'exclusives' - whether they're based on hard fact, rumours or desperate speculation doesn't matter much to his employers. Nor does it matter if one story contradicts the other. So Bascombe's list of contacts can now be extended from insiders to insiders, bitter ex-insiders, wannabe insiders, disaffected ex-players, Steve Mad Dog Morgan, Noel White...the names go on and on, all of them with particular agendas and axes to grind. All that matters to Bascombe is that he goes from a blank piece of paper to a full piece of paper in the shortest possible time. His job has become easier. If only one could believe his conscience has grown more compromised.

[zigackly]

Serious question: how does criticising the manager help us to get CL qualification in the next month or two?

[Moschops II]

The issue of the ownership is exascerbated by the problems on the pitch IMO, i.e. we're now in shitloads of debt which will become a major problem if we don't manage to secure CL football for next season. I'm surprised that some people can't see the link between the two.

 

And I'm surprised people can't see how that link works between the ownership issue and the way we're performing on the pitch.

 

You've said yourself the players just don't seem to be giving as much for the manger anymore – might that not have something to do with the fact he was made a lame duck by the owners months ago?

[Moschops II]

Not going to offer anything to the thread then, chrisb?

[Moo]

I totally agree with what Paul has said in this thread, and he's put it far more eloquently than I ever could.

 

The issue of the ownership is exascerbated by the problems on the pitch IMO, i.e. we're now in shitloads of debt which will become a major problem if we don't manage to secure CL football for next season. I'm surprised that some people can't see the link between the two.

 

We haven't improved enough over the last three and a half years and as sad as it is, the manager has to take responsibility for that. The players stopped believing in him months ago and it's clearly manifested itself on the pitch. I think there's a common misconception about 'losing the players' as well by the way. People are accusing Carra and Gerrard of stopping to try because they have lost faith in Rafa, which couldn't be further from the truth and is an insult to them as well to be honest.

 

When you lose faith in the manager, it doesn't mean you stop trying. It's more of a case of losing an edge - a little 5% that can make a difference, but it isn't something you're consciously doing.

 

There's also a lot of 'no player is bigger than LFC' going on, to which you could also say 'there's no manager bigger than LFC'. Carra and Gerrard had lost faith in GH by the end but they still gave their all - indeed Gerrard was fantastic that season and dragged us kicking and screaming into the CL.

 

It's a worrying development that the players have lost faith in the manager but it's difficult to argue with them and there's also only one way it will end up. If the players lose faith in their boss, you don't allow the manager to sell them all and buy a whole new set of players, you need to bring someone in who the players will respond to and want to play for.

 

Reina

Arbeloa

Carragher

Hyypia

Riise

Benayoun

Gerrard

Mascherano

Babel

Kuyt

Torres

 

That's probably the closest we've had to a first choice 11 this season. How many of those do you believe has 'lost faith' with Rafa?

We might be talking 2 or 3.

 

So on your last point, yes one could argue that those 2-3 could be fucked off in favour of new players who aren't too big for their boots and will get on with doing their jobs to the best of their ability, who won't whine like a twat, and who just might take a look in the mirror if they have performed like shite.

[James Dean]

Most surprisingly, Benitez will allow Xabi Alonso to return to Spain after the midfielder fell out of favour with the boss.

 

I'll be crying blood if that happens. I'd rather see Stevie Me out the door.

[coop]

Another good post africanherbsman.

 

I wonder how Rafa must feel now when hes reading two of his most influential players are having a go at. Im just glad our best players in Torres and Mascherano have at least backed Rafa.

 

Like its posted Carra has been poor by his standards but seems almost untouchable because he is a local lad but just take a look at midweek as a fine example once again Carra jumped in at a stupid challenge and gives away another penalty and we lose.

 

Ive stated in this thread and others over the last couple of days that i do think Rafa has his tactics wrong and some of his choices as regards Lucas playing on the left i think are stupid but i think he is a great manager and im confident of him getting us challenging.

 

I think circumstances off the field are not helping things on the field and even if we were top of the league and playing well we still need Hicks and Gillett out of the club.

 

For all Gerrard whinging he should do a google image search for Champions League Final 2005 and FA Cup Final 2006 and see who is the captain of the winning team proudly holding the trophy aloft and both Gerrard and Carra should go check their medal cabinet and then realise they have a fucking lot to thank Rafa for.

 

As for the Bascombe article that is the worst one i have seen from him in a long time and i must admit im very dissapointed chrisb.

 

Like its been said if that was by a London hack having a go at the club like that then we would have pulled it to pieces but to say that the protests were about getting shut of Rafa and then having a go at Skrtel (who i thought had a good game yesterday) is way way below you Chris and you are capable of a lot better.

 

Bascombe is pretty much spot on with his articles and thanks to him the whole Hicks calamity is now out in the open and hopefully articles such as that brought DIC further into buying the club after witnessing the fans protests against Hicks and SOS messages for Dubai.

 

We need to let Hicks know he isnt wanted and also put our attentions on the Ayre tosser but if he reads Bascombes report and that the fans are against Rafa then that makes the fight even harder.

[Brownie]

Reina

Arbeloa

Carragher

Hyypia

Riise

Benayoun

Gerrard

Mascherano

Babel

Kuyt

Torres

 

That's probably the closest we've had to a first choice 11 this season. How many of those do you believe has 'lost faith' with Rafa?

We might be talking 2 or 3.

 

So on your last point, yes one could argue that those 2-3 could be fucked off in favour of new players who aren't too big for their boots and will get on with doing their jobs to the best of their ability, who won't whine like a twat, and who just might take a look in the mirror if they have performed like shite.

 

Okay, let's sell Carra and Gerrard then eh and give Rafa the money to buy some more players.

 

If you don't think those two have major influence in the dressing room, then well I don't really know what to say...