Chris Bascombe

[rebel23]

IF Bascombe's article is based on private briefings by any of our players, and that's not certain but it's the assumption that this whole discussion is based on, then they are clearly not capable of acting professionally.

 

for me that kind of attitude is unacceptable, we will never be champions IF players are going to act unprofessionally no matter who the manager is. I firmly do think if there are troublemakers, however senior, they should be booted out before the manager is

[WaltonRed]

can you explain the highest points total then? sure we didnt challenge but he has shown he can accumulate a high amount of points in the league

 

any players who have lost faith should leave not Rafa.

 

If it was someone other than JC i would take no notice but...

[RedKnight]

Rafa lost the senior players the moment they were asked who they'd like to replace him.

[05 Milan]

Rafa lost the senior players the moment they were asked who they'd like to replace him.

 

You've heard this?

[RedKnight]

Yes.

[hamstrung]

Well, that was a sensible move.

 

Fucking hell.

[05 Milan]

Fucking yank cunts. "Oooh Carra, speak scouse for my business associate here! By the way, Rawfa is history, me n'George were thinking Klinsmann, what you boys think?"

[Code]

But since then Arsenal, United and Chelsea have all improved and we have not. We are going backwards. Off the field matters haven't helped, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse to cover up Rafa's flaws. The players are not blameless either.

 

You are right if Carra had not been utter shite and Agger out injured so he cant replace this has been, we would probably be up there.

[rebel23]

If it was someone other than JC i would take no notice but...

 

i dont give a shit about names I do believe if there are troublemakers boot them out for the good of the club, otherwise it'll never end

 

Rafa has shown he can attract top players like Torres, Mascherano and the likes of, he should be the constant and the players play for him , if they don't want to im sure we can find someone else to

[WaltonRed]

Rafa lost the senior players the moment they were asked who they'd like to replace him.

 

and who did they say? Curbs?

[Paul]

Rafa lost the senior players the moment they were asked who they'd like to replace him.

 

Oh, Christ. Really? Fuck me - talk about self-defeating.

[zigackly]

To be honest with you mate, I've pretty much not thought about that article in terms of my view of things on the pitch. My belief that Rafa has lost the players is based on watching us play and observing the decisions he has made over the last eigtheen months or so - nothing else.

 

Regardless, they should be able to act professionally. And if they can't, then there are as many questions about them as there are about him.

[StevieH]

You are right if Carra had not been utter shite and Agger out injured so he cant replace this has been, we would probably be up there.

 

We aren't killing teams off. Defensively we have been sound. Not as good as past seasons, but still decent enough. We are not positive enough going forward & don't put teams to the sword.

[Thants]

and who did they say? Curbs?

 

Kylie

[Rafa Shankly]

Rafa lost the senior players the moment they were asked who they'd like to replace him.

when did this happen:wow:

[redrosetints]

Okay, let's sell Carra and Gerrard then eh and give Rafa the money to buy some more players.

 

If you don't think those two have major influence in the dressing room, then well I don't really know what to say...

 

Brownie, forget the off field stuff, if Gerrard and Carra are really getting too big for their boots, something has to give, we dont want areturn to the Spice Boys days or even our very own shearer, giving a thumbs down to a new cesaer every few months.

 

Either Rafa stays and sells them to get in his own players or a new manager has to come in. The problem with a new manager coming in, is that if SG and JC remain their influence could undermine the next manager and so on, just as Shearer did at Newcastle.

 

Trouble with the former is that G&T will be called assest strippers, no matter what their intentions, while Rafa will be criticised.

 

Gerrard and Carra need to play for their manager, the Managerial position is, IMHO, more important than the players. Fergie and Wenger have both weeded out players whose dressing room influence became too great, Keane, Ince, Viera and Henry all got moved on, to the benefit of their old teams. However, it just wont happen, as i can't see them being sold.

 

So where does that leave us ? It leaves us with Sg and JC staying, Rafa leaving and us having to find a manager who can get JC and Sg on side, with great man management and while Im not sure JC would be too keen i think Gerrard would jump at the chance to play for Mourinho. So with great regret, if this is all true, then the only workable solution is for Jose to replace Rafa.

[rebel23]

We aren't killing teams off. Defensively we have been sound. Not as good as past seasons, but still decent enough. We are not positive enough going forward & don't put teams to the sword.

 

and who do you think is more likely to attract the attacking talent we need? Benitez or someone unknown that the yanks may appoint (bearing in mind they wanted to appoint a rookie like Klinnsmann). for me Benitez any day of the week, he knows the transfer market well and should be backed accordingly.

[Code]

We beat Sunderland 3-0 at home, then mancs struggled to beat them 1-0, Arsenal was lucky to get away with a 3-2 win and Chelsea beat them 2-0.

 

People moaning after a 3-0 win is pretty pathetic, the match finishes after 90+ minutes not after the first half.

 

If it did, this is how it would look like.

 

1. Man Utd 25 13 9 3 22-6 48p

2. Arsenal 25 14 5 6 20-9 47p

3. Everton 25 12 9 4 17-7 45p

4. Liverpool 24 10 11 3 15-5 41p

5. Chelsea 25 11 8 6 16-9 41p

6. Fulham 24 9 11 4 13-10 38p

7. Tottenham 25 9 9 7 20-14 36p

[fin-bat]

and who did they say? Curbs?

 

Moyes, I heard.

[theRedHorse]

P.s.

 

I don;t by this "we're declining" bullshit.

 

We were playing very well at the start of the season and we're just in bad form mainly due (IMO) to the Owners undermining the Manager.

I think they approached klinsmann in November, Rafa knew about it, and If what RedKnight is saying is true, so did the players.

 

Rafa can have us challenging for the title, he can have us winning. Give him money, give him time.

 

unforunately our fans see it more progressive to start from square one again.

[StevieH]

and who do you think is more likely to attract the attacking talent we need? Benitez or someone unknown that the yanks may appoint (bearing in mind they wanted to appoint a rookie like Klinnsmann). for me Benitez any day of the week, he knows the transfer market well and should be backed accordingly.

 

If we cannot attract a better manager than Rafa, then obviously there is no point in changing the manager. I'm not disputing that he can attract players, but he has had the opportunity to bring in the players that he wants and quite a few have fallen short of what is required. He may not have had £20-30m to spend on individual players like Fergie has, but he could have done alot better with the £38m he spent on Kuyt, Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant, Gonzalez & Morientes for example.

[Code]

We aren't killing teams off. Defensively we have been sound. Not as good as past seasons, but still decent enough. We are not positive enough going forward & don't put teams to the sword.

 

We have improved going forward, if we maintain our this seasons average we will finish with 64 goals scored, its not enough to win the title, we will need around 75 goals to do that, but it is an improvement from the other seasons with Rafa in charge when we have finished with 52, 57 and 57 goals scored.

 

The only thing holding is back is our indifferent home form and there is no logical explanation for that one.

[theRedHorse]

Moyes, I heard.

 

Gerrard probably said Mourinho.

[rebel23]

Arsenal have shown that it's possible to sell your best players and not look back and if Fergie learn't any players were chatting to the press they would be out the door quick style

 

Football is an open market, if players dont want to play they should leave and we'll find someone else

[Brownie]

Brownie, forget the off field stuff, if Gerrard and Carra are really getting too big for their boots, something has to give, we dont want areturn to the Spice Boys days or even our very own shearer, giving a thumbs down to a new cesaer every few months.

 

Either Rafa stays and sells them to get in his own players or a new manager has to come in. The problem with a new manager coming in, is that if SG and JC remain their influence could undermine the next manager and so on, just as Shearer did at Newcastle.

 

Trouble with the former is that G&T will be called assest strippers, no matter what their intentions, while Rafa will be criticised.

 

Gerrard and Carra need to play for their manager, the Managerial position is, IMHO, more important than the players. Fergie and Wenger have both weeded out players whose dressing room influence became too great, Keane, Ince, Viera and Henry all got moved on, to the benefit of their old teams. However, it just wont happen, as i can't see them being sold.

 

So where does that leave us ? It leaves us with Sg and JC staying, Rafa leaving and us having to find a manager who can get JC and Sg on side, with great man management and while Im not sure JC would be too keen i think Gerrard would jump at the chance to play for Mourinho. So with great regret, if this is all true, then the only workable solution is for Jose to replace Rafa.

 

I don't know what you're getting at RRT. Comparing Rafa with Fergie and Wenger in this instance is totally missing the point.

 

Fergie and Wenger had every right to weed out whoever they wanted, as they had proven that they knew how to win the league and thus they had the backing of the fans.

 

If Rafa sold Carra and Gerrard just because they don't believe in him, then that would just be madness. What Rafa needs to do, is MAKE them believe in him. I think he's too far gone to do that now though, although I hope i'm wrong.

 

The question was asked before about who is more important, the manager or the player. If the manager is underachieving then the players are more important, if you get what I mean.