Israel - A Rant

[Bjornebye]

45 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

Propaganda was would just move on regardless of the outcome of investigation.

 

Come on fella, you'r an intelligent poster and even though we don't see eye to eye on a lot of subjects I respect your opinion. Even you must see that there has to be accountability especially when the IDF who have been bombing Gaza all for almost 2 weeks admitted to bombing the hospital then backtracked and blamed Hamas once they saw the outrage start. I'm not saying it wasn't Hamas but there has to be an investigation either way. They saw the the west could have turned a bit and shit themselves, same as with the shooting of the female journalist when they immediately blamed Hamas only to be proven as liars. Fist thing Netanyahu wanted when Biden landed was to get him to say it wasn't Israel who bombed the hospital. I wonder why...... 

 

They've been calling the Palestinian people animals, cutting off power and water and annexing whole neighbourhoods, what's another bomb and more dead civilians to them? It's far too coincidental that the shock of 500 dead including children from just one bomb happened to be a misfire ahead of 3000 or more other bombs. 

 

This incident won't determine the war or the outcome, of course it won't but if it becomes clear hat Israel lied, created a blag video and did kill all those people in a fucking hospital then supporters of "Israels right to defend itself" might think twice if that's defence at all. Mind you, maybe they won't. Fuck it eh, let them carry on with this mass murder. 

 

While I don't condone the a lot of the British actions in Northern Ireland, at least they didn't start a mass slaughter (*) when bombs started killing innocents on the British mainland.

 

* A minor slaughter on occasion. 

 

This was never about defeating Hamas for Israel in my opinion, it's always been about the land grab. It will be interesting to see what happens in the West Bank given that Fatah/PNA don't resort to Hamas tactics anymore. 

[Bjornebye]

39 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

Come on fella, you'r an intelligent poster and even though we don't see eye to eye on a lot of subjects I respect your opinion. Even you must see that there has to be accountability especially when the IDF who have been bombing Gaza all for almost 2 weeks admitted to bombing the hospital then backtracked and blamed Hamas once they saw the outrage start. I'm not saying it wasn't Hamas but there has to be an investigation either way. They saw the the west could have turned a bit and shit themselves, same as with the shooting of the female journalist when they immediately blamed Hamas only to be proven as liars. Fist thing Netanyahu wanted when Biden landed was to get him to say it wasn't Israel who bombed the hospital. I wonder why...... 

 

They've been calling the Palestinian people animals, cutting off power and water and annexing whole neighbourhoods, what's another bomb and more dead civilians to them? It's far too coincidental that the shock of 500 dead including children from just one bomb happened to be a misfire ahead of 3000 or more other bombs. 

 

This incident won't determine the war or the outcome, of course it won't but if it becomes clear hat Israel lied, created a blag video and did kill all those people in a fucking hospital then supporters of "Israels right to defend itself" might think twice if that's defence at all. Mind you, maybe they won't. Fuck it eh, let them carry on with this mass murder. 

 

While I don't condone the a lot of the British actions in Northern Ireland, at least they didn't start a mass slaughter (*) when bombs started killing innocents on the British mainland.

 

* A minor slaughter on occasion. 

 

This was never about defeating Hamas for Israel in my opinion, it's always been about the land grab. It will be interesting to see what happens in the West Bank given that Fatah/PNA don't resort to Hamas tactics anymore. 

 

 

[SasaS]

25 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

Come on fella, you'r an intelligent poster and even though we don't see eye to eye on a lot of subjects I respect your opinion. Even you must see that there has to be accountability especially when the IDF who have been bombing Gaza all for almost 2 weeks admitted to bombing the hospital then backtracked and blamed Hamas once they saw the outrage start. I'm not saying it wasn't Hamas but there has to be an investigation either way. They saw the the west could have turned a bit and shit themselves, same as with the shooting of the female journalist when they immediately blamed Hamas only to be proven as liars. Fist thing Netanyahu wanted when Biden landed was to get him to say it wasn't Israel who bombed the hospital. I wonder why...... 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Accountability?

 

The Israeli government, after all, are the ones painting themselves as the democratic leaders on the right side of history battling the savages and sub-humans 'over there' with the backing of the rest of western democracies supporting them.

 

They can't have it both ways.

 

 

I must say I don't see much difference between the hospital strike and what they have been doing since 7 October, if you for a second forget the number of dead in one place, which is still contested. And if it was indeed IDF, which is likely since it happened in the middle of their bombing campaign, I don't see any investigation going as far as proving it was deliberate, or going all the way to the HQ giving the green light to kill hundreds of people. Pro-Palestinian people in the region (and many in their camp around the world) already think this is what happened anyway.

 

If it was a PIJ rocket malfunctioning or being intercepted, which is possible, what will that change? IDF off the hook, until something else happens.

 

Perceptions are already locked in, along the ideological lines, national, ethnic or religious affiliations and strategic necessities. They are not going to change based on one incident, or even the entire Israeli campaign.

[House of Dirk]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

 

 

Perceptions are already locked in, along the ideological lines, national, ethnic or religious affiliations and strategic necessities. They are not going to change based on one incident, or even the entire Israeli campaign.

Opinion, not fact

[Arniepie]

maybe I’m being thick, but I don’t understand the difference between not deliberately targeting civilians and bombing an area where they know for a fact that civilians are there.

[Gnasher]

Greta's escaped the clutches of the Met police.

 

But not the baying mob. 

 

[Denny Crane]

He went full Everton.

 

 

Saw the below in the comments. 

 

 

 

[TD_LFC]

30 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

 

I must say I don't see much difference between the hospital strike and what they have been doing since 7 October, if you for a second forget the number of dead in one place, which is still contested. And if it was indeed IDF, which is likely since it happened in the middle of their bombing campaign, I don't see any investigation going as far as proving it was deliberate, or going all the way to the HQ giving the green light to kill hundreds of people. Pro-Palestinian people in the region (and many in their camp around the world) already think this is what happened anyway.

 

If it was a PIJ rocket malfunctioning or being intercepted, which is possible, what will that change? IDF off the hook, until something else happens.

 

Perceptions are already locked in, along the ideological lines, national, ethnic or religious affiliations and strategic necessities. They are not going to change based on one incident, or even the entire Israeli campaign.

 

I'm not talking specifically about one event, it's the expectations set by each side, assigned to each side by outsiders and then how they disregarded it all when something happens.

 

The reason the Israeli government will be held to greater condemnation and account by people is because the Israeli government goes to great lengths to separate themselves from 'savages' despite acting in a way that can be described as callous and savage.

 

You don't get to frame yourself as morally superior when your kill count and demographic is what it is.

[Jairzinho]

25 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

maybe I’m being thick, but I don’t understand the difference between not deliberately targeting civilians and bombing an area where they know for a fact that civilians are there.

 

If you do the latter you can continue to convince centrists around the world that you're the goodies.

[TheHowieLama]

4 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

strategic importance a Christian church 

 

Same reason they hit a "Baptist" hospital.

 

2 hours ago, House of Dirk said:

Indeed. Its burden of proof. 

 

In a court case the prosecution has the burden of proof - who has that in this case?

[SasaS]

32 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

maybe I’m being thick, but I don’t understand the difference between not deliberately targeting civilians and bombing an area where they know for a fact that civilians are there.

 

If you are the said civilian, little difference. It is about trying to understand or discuss the motivation of actors' actions. If your only interest is being in perpetual state of moral outrage, this does not matter much.

[TD_LFC]

41 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

maybe I’m being thick, but I don’t understand the difference between not deliberately targeting civilians and bombing an area where they know for a fact that civilians are there.

 

Legal semantics.

 

It's why they tell people to 'go south' they know largely they can't and the outcome will be loss of innocent life but they can stand up and say they took measures to try and prevent it when pressed.

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

If you are the said civilian, little difference. It is about trying to understand or discuss the motivation of actors' actions. If your only interest is being in perpetual state of moral outrage, this does not matter much.

 

Again, you're either deliberately being a wanker or you don't understand where that moral outrage comes from. Are you not morally outraged that civilians are being bombed? 

[House of Dirk]

13 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Same reason they hit a "Baptist" hospital.

 

 

In a court case the prosecution has the burden of proof - who has that in this case?

Oh we just let it fly and call everyone a cunt . No one is accountable for anything anymore

[Arniepie]

8 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

If you are the said civilian, little difference. It is about trying to understand or discuss the motivation of actors' actions. If your only interest is being in perpetual state of moral outrage, this does not matter much.

yep

I suppose you would have to be a bit of a snowflake to think that the concept of the people who have just killed over 1000 children,are actually the "good guys",to be a little bit suspect?  

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

As I alluded to in a previous post, a lot of people aren’t just outraged because Israel are killing a lot of civilians in this latest outbreak of violence, it’s because they’ve systematically killed lots of innocent civilians for years on end. And have consistently done so with impunity. And, despite this, the majority of western governments still class them as the “good guys.”

[TheHowieLama]

8 minutes ago, Nelly-Matip said:

outraged 

 

The perpetual part is because most are equally outraged at Hamas.

 

Double dip outrage.

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

Again, you're either deliberately being a wanker or you don't understand where that moral outrage comes from. Are you not morally outraged that civilians are being bombed? 

 

 

I have a pretty good idea where specific moral outrage comes from.

 

On your question, that is from the category of do you approve of children being killed or something like that. Of course I am not insensitive to seeing people getting killed. I am talking about perpetual outrage which constantly demands to be fuelled, for years, until people reach a state where it is impossible to listen to any kind of reasoning or logic if it is expressed in a language which deviates from their own (discourse of constant moral outrage).

 

 

[TD_LFC]

31 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

In a court case the prosecution has the burden of proof - who has that in this case?

 

When all is said and done it'll be the ICC.

[TD_LFC]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I have a pretty good idea where specific moral outrage comes from.

 

[SasaS]

I think even Bibi has to work hard to convince himself they are the good guys when he is alone in the room. 

[Arniepie]

The BBC has been told that as talks continue to secure the release of many of the estimated 203 hostages held in Gaza, Hamas has offered to release some in exchange for an immediate ceasefire. Israel has so far not agreed to this, we are told.

[Bjornebye]

56 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

I have a pretty good idea where specific moral outrage comes from.

 

 

On your question, that is from the category of do you approve of children being killed or something like that. Of course I am not insensitive to seeing people getting killed. I am talking about perpetual outrage which constantly demands to be fuelled, for years, until people reach a state where it is impossible to listen to any kind of reasoning or logic if it is expressed in a language which deviates from their own (discourse of constant moral outrage).

 

 

 

Let's hear it then? 

 

Absolute fucking gibberish the rest. I'm outraged at any innocent getting killed as should anyone with any sort of morals be. You're treading close to calling people 'woke' or 'virtue signalling' for being pissed off at civilians getting bombed here. I'd rather you just said it instead of me having to pull it out of you. 

[Gnasher]

God help the whole region if Israel launch a ground invasion. Its already sounding like hell at the Rafah border crossing. You can sense the tension in this clip.

 

 

A ceasefire is desperately needed.

 

[Gnasher]

Greta (and those who identify with her) is on the Israeli naughty step.