Go fuck yourselves FSG

[VladimirIlyich]

17 hours ago, lifetime fan said:

Henderson has been a model pro ever since joining the club. He’s grown to be an outstanding Captain of the club both on and off the pitch. He’ll rightly be regarded as a Liverpool legend in years to come. 
 

He’s also never been fucking remotely close to world class. 

There arent many players 'not even close to world class' who captain and play regularly in a team like ours. 

[3 Stacks]

Henderson has been generally really good since Klopp got here and to me, he was close to world class in 18/19, 19/20, but he might have become a bit of a weak spot last season. Sometimes, I thought he started to feel a bit pointless as the third midfielder.

[VladimirIlyich]

7 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Henderson has been generally really good since Klopp got here and to me, he was close to world class in 18/19, 19/20, but he might have become a bit of a weak spot last season. Sometimes, I thought he started to feel a bit pointless as the third midfielder.

I thought he was superb at the end of the season,playing his usual role.  Definitely not pointless,thats for sure.

[3 Stacks]

It would behoove us to start playing him less at this point, I think.

[stringvest]

Just now, 3 Stacks said:

It would behoove us to play him less at this point, I think.

someone will be along telling you to behoove yourself in a minute.

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, stringvest said:

someone will be along telling you to behoove yourself in a minute.

Remember those behoove hairdos?

[TD_LFC]

It's almost as if the club were right to be wary about the type of contract Henderson was given when you factor in age and him coming of a big injury.

[El Rojo]

He may not have hooves, but Hendo is still the GOAT.

[Funkasy]

Its GAIT 

[aRdja]

8 hours ago, HBenn said:

Yeah, but that is the season after next giving us a whole year to plan.

Whereas with our midfield the need has been pressing for a year. Our first choice 3 are class but lack in athleticism and pace.

Just as importantly, Thiago misses loads of games and will miss probably more than he did last season this season. Naby has had a dodgy injury record for 3 years and 6 decent months. Hendo is 32 and was off it for much of last season. Fabinho cannot be expected to play every game. Milner is 36. 

As ridiculous as it sounds, we have to improve from last season as City are likely to be even better. Our midfield has not improved, it cost us points last season and is one obvious area we could improve.

We don't have an athletic, quick defensive midfielder who prevents us from being vulnerable to transition, players in between the lines and midfield runners.

We also lack quality depth. The fact that Klopp played a half fit Fabinho and Thiago in the final spoke volumes. He himself said we are really short of cover for Fabinho.

For all this talk of Jones being the answer, for a start he isn't a defensive player and for seconds he played no part in any of the major finals. He has a long way to go to show to Jürgen he is the answer.

If we were to get any midfielder in, I doubt anyone else would suggest getting a defensive minded midfielder, the consensus is we need an attacking minded centre mid, not a defensive mid. Our midfielders are defensively competent much more so than City’s for example, who don’t have this “quick athletic defensive midfielder” in their squad. I’ve explained this before, we have 7 players for 3 positions excluding Ox and Carvalho. Two of those bona fide world class, in Thiago and Fabinho. We dominated every team we played against last season, bar two games against City. We weren’t really all that vulnerable to transition, we conceded that least number of goals in the league.
 

Salah is the only senior player in the squad who is a natural in that RW role. He’s also currently the only world class forward that we have. To replace him will be difficult and very expensive. If that player exists then we should focus our efforts in trying to bring him in now and give him time to bed in, whilst Salah is still in the team. Similar to when we brought Salah in when Coutinho was still in the team, and Diaz when Mane was still in the team.  

[Dundalis]

9 hours ago, aRdja said:

If we were to get any midfielder in, I doubt anyone else would suggest getting a defensive minded midfielder, the consensus is we need an attacking minded centre mid, not a defensive mid. Our midfielders are defensively competent much more so than City’s for example, who don’t have this “quick athletic defensive midfielder” in their squad. I’ve explained this before, we have 7 players for 3 positions excluding Ox and Carvalho. Two of those bona fide world class, in Thiago and Fabinho. We dominated every team we played against last season, bar two games against City. We weren’t really all that vulnerable to transition, we conceded that least number of goals in the league.
 

Salah is the only senior player in the squad who is a natural in that RW role. He’s also currently the only world class forward that we have. To replace him will be difficult and very expensive. If that player exists then we should focus our efforts in trying to bring him in now and give him time to bed in, whilst Salah is still in the team. Similar to when we brought Salah in when Coutinho was still in the team, and Diaz when Mane was still in the team.  

I have a feeling they are looking at going the cheap route. i.e. Saved up money for Bellingham next summer, and try and acquire Gnabry for free to replace Salah. Definitely feels like the type of cheap move FSG would hone in on. I don't mind Gnabry as a player, but would much prefer him as a squad option rather than the primary Salah replacement. But Klopp could prob turn him into something elite, his numbers with Bayern are pretty solid, but I think he's someone who like Mane can play on the right wing, but would be better suited and most productive on the left.

[HBenn]

9 hours ago, aRdja said:

If we were to get any midfielder in, I doubt anyone else would suggest getting a defensive minded midfielder, the consensus is we need an attacking minded centre mid, not a defensive mid. Our midfielders are defensively competent much more so than City’s for example, who don’t have this “quick athletic defensive midfielder” in their squad. I’ve explained this before, we have 7 players for 3 positions excluding Ox and Carvalho. Two of those bona fide world class, in Thiago and Fabinho. We dominated every team we played against last season, bar two games against City. We weren’t really all that vulnerable to transition, we conceded that least number of goals in the league.
 

Salah is the only senior player in the squad who is a natural in that RW role. He’s also currently the only world class forward that we have. To replace him will be difficult and very expensive. If that player exists then we should focus our efforts in trying to bring him in now and give him time to bed in, whilst Salah is still in the team. Similar to when we brought Salah in when Coutinho was still in the team, and Diaz when Mane was still in the team.  

We wouldn't have been looking to spend £70m on an athletic, strong defensive midfielder if Klopp didn't see it as an issue.

Once again you ignore the fact that the one defensive midfielder we have cannot be expected to play every game and the other World class player (Thiago) will likely miss loads of games through injury.

But yeah, just keep repeating that we are all ok on that area in the hope it all works out.

[aRdja]

46 minutes ago, HBenn said:

We wouldn't have been looking to spend £70m on an athletic, strong defensive midfielder if Klopp didn't see it as an issue.

Once again you ignore the fact that the one defensive midfielder we have cannot be expected to play every game and the other World class player (Thiago) will likely miss loads of games through injury.

But yeah, just keep repeating that we are all ok on that area in the hope it all works out.

For all we know, we went for Tchouameni because we thought he was an elite talent to eventually replace Thiago or Hendo rather than to meet the immediate needs. Hendo is more than capable at DM, played some of his best games there last season. You can refer to the stats if you like, our midfield dominated a large majority of games last season, and we conceded the least number of goals in the league. Doesn’t exactly scream “we’re in dire need of a defensive midfielder”. In contrast, Salah is the best attacking player in the league; contributed most goals and most assists and it looks like he’s leaving us next season. Obvious no?

[joe_fishfish]

10 hours ago, aRdja said:

If we were to get any midfielder in, I doubt anyone else would suggest getting a defensive minded midfielder, the consensus is we need an attacking minded centre mid, not a defensive mid. Our midfielders are defensively competent much more so than City’s for example, who don’t have this “quick athletic defensive midfielder” in their squad. I’ve explained this before, we have 7 players for 3 positions excluding Ox and Carvalho. Two of those bona fide world class, in Thiago and Fabinho. We dominated every team we played against last season, bar two games against City. We weren’t really all that vulnerable to transition, we conceded that least number of goals in the league.
 

Salah is the only senior player in the squad who is a natural in that RW role. He’s also currently the only world class forward that we have. To replace him will be difficult and very expensive. If that player exists then we should focus our efforts in trying to bring him in now and give him time to bed in, whilst Salah is still in the team. Similar to when we brought Salah in when Coutinho was still in the team, and Diaz when Mane was still in the team.  

I don't think that's the consensus at all, the only midfielder we've actually tried to sign this window was Tchouameni who is very much a ball-winner.

 

He's the exact profile of midfielder I think we should sign. Aggressive, capable of pressing all over the pitch, actually wins the ball when he presses, and capable of dribbling or passing without losing the ball himself. Primarily an aggressive 8 or can play as a 6. That's what we need, not another attacking midfielder. If we'd have got Tchouameni I'd've expected him to be eased into midfield as the Henderson replacement on the right of the three, with a view to having him take over that role longer term. He would have picked up minutes as a 6 as well because Fabinho does pick up knocks (and yellow cards).

 

Right now the only cover for Fabinho is Henderson, who is probably the best player we have for the right of the midfield three. So if Fab gets injured / suspended, it weakens our midfield in two spots, not just one. Tchouameni would have solved that, I'd be looking at other players who can do the same thing. The fact we moved onto Nunez after missing out on him likely indicates there's no one else out there who fits the bill.

[joe_fishfish]

5 minutes ago, aRdja said:

For all we know, we went for Tchouameni because we thought he was an elite talent to eventually replace Thiago or Hendo rather than to meet the immediate needs. Hendo is more than capable at DM, played some of his best games there last season. You can refer to the stats if you like, our midfield dominated a large majority of games last season, and we conceded the least number of goals in the league. Doesn’t exactly scream “we’re in dire need of a defensive midfielder”. In contrast, Salah is the best attacking player in the league; contributed most goals and most assists and it looks like he’s leaving us next season. Obvious no?

When you say defensive midfielder ... Do you mean someone who plays as the deepest of the three? Because there's more than one way to play that role, just as there's more than one way to play the 8 role as well.

 

Winning the ball back isn't just a way to stop the opposition scoring btw, if we do it high up the pitch it's an effective way of creating chances too.

[aRdja]

4 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

I don't think that's the consensus at all, the only midfielder we've actually tried to sign this window was Tchouameni who is very much a ball-winner.

 

He's the exact profile of midfielder I think we should sign. Aggressive, capable of pressing all over the pitch, actually wins the ball when he presses, and capable of dribbling or passing without losing the ball himself. Primarily an aggressive 8 or can play as a 6. That's what we need, not another attacking midfielder. If we'd have got Tchouameni I'd've expected him to be eased into midfield as the Henderson replacement on the right of the three, with a view to having him take over that role longer term. He would have picked up minutes as a 6 as well because Fabinho does pick up knocks (and yellow cards).

 

Right now the only cover for Fabinho is Henderson, who is probably the best player we have for the right of the midfield three. So if Fab gets injured / suspended, it weakens our midfield in two spots, not just one. Tchouameni would have solved that, I'd be looking at other players who can do the same thing. The fact we moved onto Nunez after missing out on him likely indicates there's no one else out there who fits the bill.

Just go to Barry’s thread; “box-to-box”, Saka, Saka as a right sided midfielder, winger turned midfielder. 

[TD_LFC]

All our attacking midfielders are late teens early twenties to mid twenties, all our defensive (or deep lying) players are 30 plus.

 

1 minute ago, aRdja said:

Just go to Barry’s thread; “box-to-box”, Saka, Saka as a right sided midfielder, winger turned midfielder. 

 

That thread is talking about Saka as a Salah replacement.

[aRdja]

3 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

All our attacking midfielders are late teens early twenties to mid twenties, all our defensive (or deep lying) players are 30 plus.

 

 

That thread is talking about Saka as a Salah replacement.

@stringvest suggested him as a potential midfield option. Saka as Salah’s replacement is even better, as that’s what I voted for.

 

You also may want to check your source, Fabinho is just hitting his prime at 28.

[HBenn]

47 minutes ago, aRdja said:

For all we know, we went for Tchouameni because we thought he was an elite talent to eventually replace Thiago or Hendo rather than to meet the immediate needs. Hendo is more than capable at DM, played some of his best games there last season. You can refer to the stats if you like, our midfield dominated a large majority of games last season, and we conceded the least number of goals in the league. Doesn’t exactly scream “we’re in dire need of a defensive midfielder”. In contrast, Salah is the best attacking player in the league; contributed most goals and most assists and it looks like he’s leaving us next season. Obvious no?

So you would go to FSG and ask them to replace a player that doesn't need replacing for another year instead of addressing the issues in midfield?

As I have said numerous times, it's not just about our games against City. City may have been best at exploiting it with De Bruyne dropping into the space and playing it between our centre halves but plenty of teams targeted that area. Kane dropped in for their goal at Anfield, Chelsea did it numerous times to get in during both finals. Even West Ham and Watford got joy through it! 

With better finishes of very presentable chances by Chelsea and numerous other teams our season would have looked very different.

The fact it kept happening shows we didn't have the answer in our existing setup and why we looked to spend £70m on a midfielder.

Those managers aren't daft, they will buy better players and keep attacking a perceived weakness. So we need to improve on it.

On top of all of that, in case the penny hasn't dropped yet, as good as our team was last season it wasn't quite enough to get over the line. City have improved and for us to get over the line we need to iron out our deficiencies not paper over them.

But, yeah, go ahead. Buy a replacement for a player we still have and bank on Thiago, Hendo and Fabinho to play 38 games and resolve the issues that were still present even when they played.

[aRdja]

4 hours ago, HBenn said:

So you would go to FSG and ask them to replace a player that doesn't need replacing for another year instead of addressing the issues in midfield?

As I have said numerous times, it's not just about our games against City. City may have been best at exploiting it with De Bruyne dropping into the space and playing it between our centre halves but plenty of teams targeted that area. Kane dropped in for their goal at Anfield, Chelsea did it numerous times to get in during both finals. Even West Ham and Watford got joy through it! 

With better finishes of very presentable chances by Chelsea and numerous other teams our season would have looked very different.

The fact it kept happening shows we didn't have the answer in our existing setup and why we looked to spend £70m on a midfielder.

Those managers aren't daft, they will buy better players and keep attacking a perceived weakness. So we need to improve on it.

On top of all of that, in case the penny hasn't dropped yet, as good as our team was last season it wasn't quite enough to get over the line. City have improved and for us to get over the line we need to iron out our deficiencies not paper over them.

But, yeah, go ahead. Buy a replacement for a player we still have and bank on Thiago, Hendo and Fabinho to play 38 games and resolve the issues that were still present even when they played.

We are gonna concede goals. It’s a competitive sport, we have done better than every team bar Man City at keeping the ball away from goal though, that’s an immutable truth. Look at the stats, we conceded the same number of goals as City and scored less goals than them, despite us having the league’s top goalscorer in our team, and he’s leaving us. The truth is right there HBenn.

 

[HBenn]

22 minutes ago, aRdja said:

We are gonna concede goals. It’s a competitive sport, we have done better than every team bar Man City at keeping the ball away from goal though, that’s an immutable truth. Look at the stats, we conceded the same number of goals as City and scored less goals than them, despite us having the league’s top goalscorer in our team, and he’s leaving us. The truth is right there HBenn.

 

Of course we are going to concede goals, that is obvious, but you are looking at things far too simplistically.

We (and Mo) were outscoring City for fun until Jan and then we had to change our tactic because our midfield didn't have the defensive skills to allow us to play that way. We were giving up leading positions. The change of tactics/personnel to 3 more defensively minded players partly addressed the defensive issues.

However, the attacking midfielders barely got a look in after Christmas and funnily enough without the same triangle on the right, Mo also looked a shadow of himself.

If we had 2 solid defensive midfielders we could play a very attacking midfielder like we were early in the season.

Until we have 2 Jürgen really trusts we won't do that!

However you think we should go to FSG and ask them to allow us to spend now to replace a player that will be here for another year because...we will lose goals when he leaves???

Or maybe we could buy a quality midfielder that can effectively cover up the spaces, which in turn allows us to play a more attacking midfielder without leaving spaces and allow Mo to get back to his free scoring best for a season. Then address his replacement if and when he leaves.

 

 

[Scott_M]

6 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Of course we are going to concede goals, that is obvious, but you are looking at things far too simplistically.

We (and Mo) were outscoring City for fun until Jan and then we had to change our tactic because our midfield didn't have the defensive skills to allow us to play that way. We were giving up leading positions. The change of tactics/personnel to 3 more defensively minded players partly addressed the defensive issues.

However, the attacking midfielders barely got a look in after Christmas and funnily enough without the same triangle on the right, Mo also looked a shadow of himself.

If we had 2 solid defensive midfielders we could play a very attacking midfielder like we were early in the season.

Until we have 2 Jürgen really trusts we won't do that!

However you think we should go to FSG and ask them to allow us to spend now to replace a player that will be here for another year because...we will lose goals when he leaves???

Or maybe we could buy a quality midfielder that can effectively cover up the spaces, which in turn allows us to play a more attacking midfielder without leaving spaces and allow Mo to get back to his free scoring best for a season. Then address his replacement if and when he leaves.

 

 

 

In 2022, we won 15/18 games. There was nothing wrong with the sides form in 2022. It's a team game, not just for Mo Salah. 

 

In terms of buying a midfielder, I'd like to buy one. I also wanted us to buy a defender when the VVD deal initially fell through, we waited for who we wanted and it worked out Ok. I wanted us to buy a defender when VVD / Gomez / Matip were all injured, we waited for who we wanted and it worked out Ok. I wanted us to buy another attacker last summer, we thought we might miss out on our first choice, so we accelerated the deal and brought him in early.

 

We thought Tchouameni would improve us. None of us know if it was Tchouameni or Nunez, IMO, it would have been both as deals that size don't magically happen overnight.

 

We obviously don't think there is another midfielder of the required quality, who is available this summer, we could buy. We clearly like Bellingham but Dortmund are saying no deal this summer. I do wonder what we would do if any other club had a break through with Dortmund and if we would act, like we did with Diaz. Sounds like we like Luka Sucic of Salzburg as well, but he's only 19 and more of an attacking midfielder. 

 

I'd rather wait and get the right player rather than buy somebody we are unsure on and piss money away (like we did in the past).

 

Ultimately, I trust Klopp and team to get it right. They've earned my trust by getting it right more often than not over the past 7 years. While we all have opinions (and I've said above what I'd like) but ultimately those entrusted with the responsibility of the playing squad know what they are doing.

[HBenn]

9 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

In 2022, we won 15/18 games. There was nothing wrong with the sides form in 2022. It's a team game, not just for Mo Salah. 

 

In terms of buying a midfielder, I'd like to buy one. I also wanted us to buy a defender when the VVD deal initially fell through, we waited for who we wanted and it worked out Ok. I wanted us to buy a defender when VVD / Gomez / Matip were all injured, we waited for who we wanted and it worked out Ok. I wanted us to buy another attacker last summer, we thought we might miss out on our first choice, so we accelerated the deal and brought him in early.

 

We thought Tchouameni would improve us. None of us know if it was Tchouameni or Nunez, IMO, it would have been both as deals that size don't magically happen overnight.

 

We obviously don't think there is another midfielder of the required quality, who is available this summer, we could buy. We clearly like Bellingham but Dortmund are saying no deal this summer. I do wonder what we would do if any other club had a break through with Dortmund and if we would act, like we did with Diaz. Sounds like we like Luka Sucic of Salzburg as well, but he's only 19 and more of an attacking midfielder. 

 

I'd rather wait and get the right player rather than buy somebody we are unsure on and piss money away (like we did in the past).

 

Ultimately, I trust Klopp and team to get it right. They've earned my trust by getting it right more often than not over the past 7 years. While we all have opinions (and I've said above what I'd like) but ultimately those entrusted with the responsibility of the playing squad know what they are doing.

I am just saying that another defensive midfielder would allow us to play a more expansive game again. I also think our success in 2022 was very reliant on Fabinho and Thiago and that is concerning because Thiago won't stay fit.

We need to improve from an impressive position to beat City because they are phenomenal. This Liverpool team would have won the league in 4 of the last 5 seasons without them and these issues wouldn't be worth concerning ourselves with because it wouldn't matter.

But due to City we have to improve. I trust Klopp and Lijnders to maximise what we have. He is the best manager in my lifetime. I just don't think the priority to improve was a replacement for Mo. Not that that matters now. Well done Mike Gordon!!!!

 

 

[Anubis]

Well done, you cunts! You can officially close the window with my seal of satisfaction. Unless you really want to add that midfielder.

[TheHowieLama]

@Barrington Womble still clinging on to the stadium thingy.