Defensive mistakes this season

[ritchie]

Just looked at the goals we've conceded and literally every one of them is down to defensive mistakes. Often with at least two players fucking up, rather than us being able cover for someone else's mistake.

 

Sunderland at home - Flanagan left Larsson unmarked on the far post.

Exeter away - Skrtel gives away a stupid pen

Bolton at home - Carragher fucked up at the end of the game

Stoke away - Carragher gave a stupid pen away

Tottenham away - all four Spurs goals were amateurishly defended and a catalogue of errors

Brighton away - Spearing fucked up and then Carragher went charging in to give a pen away

Wolves at home - poor defending all round

Man United at home - Carragher got oumuscled by Welbeck and then Skrtel slips and lets Hernandez in

Norwich at home - Adam gives the ball away and then Johnson, Reina and Carragher can't get near Grant Holt

Stoke away - Coates fucks up and then the defence leave Kenwyne Jones free to head home

 

It's practically every game now (barring against 10 men Arsenal and Everton). These errors simply have to stop.

 

If you look at any goal then a coach would say it's preventable, but we've gifted the opposition nearly every goal.

[bigbak]

I think if you analysed all the other teams most the goals would be the same. There's room for improvement, but the problem is not putting away chances.

[zigackly]

Last season our defensive improvement was put down to Steve Clarke. This is where he earns his corn. I think we've lost a lot of balance in the team this season with bringing in a whole new midfield. There's still time to get it right though.

[robbiegod]

Every goal ever scored the team that concedes can point to a mistake somewhere in the build up to it, even worldy strikes, yes a few of the goals that we have conceded this season from our point of view we will be disappointed with but it's not like we are letting loads of goals in, I understand the old adage that don't concede don't lose the game but the defensive side of a team comes with playing together, as a team not just the back four, and as much as possible the back four stays unchanged.. And as has been stated and we all know this is a very new team together... These mistakes will become less and less the more the team plays together..

[ritchie]

Most goals that are conceded are preventable, but these are just really basic individual errors that shouldn't be happening. Someone fucks up (i.e. Coates the other night) and it ends up in the net. We can never cover someone elses mistake either. Stoke even had a legitimate goal disallowed when Reina fucked up.

 

If players were just doing the basics properly then we wouldn't be conceding these goals.

 

Sometimes the opposition score and you just have to applaud and give them credit. Nearly every goal we've conceded this season has been more down to us than the opposition. That's the difference.

[satansmutt]

Oh how I long for the days of Rafa's defensive discipline when Jamie Carragher made one mistake and everybody gave a huge sigh of relief because you knew he wouldnt make another all season

[ritchie]

Oh how I long for the days of Rafa's defensive discipline when Jamie Carragher made one mistake and everybody gave a huge sigh of relief because you knew he wouldnt make another all season

 

We've made more errors at the back so far this season than we did over a whole season at times under Houllier and Benitez.

 

To be fair the defence was shite for 18 months before Kenny came in, co-inciding with Hyypia leaving, but we did well to shore it up under Kenny and Clarke.

 

When you look at the stats, we're much more solid at the back when Daniel Agger plays, but even with him in the side we're still conceding ridiculous goals from really basic mistakes.

 

It might only be one goal a game (Spurs aside) but when we're not scoring loads at the other end that really avoidable goal every game is costing us points.

 

In the cup we've conceded a ridiculous goal at Stoke, Brighton and Exeter but at least managed to score enough at the other end to go through. Come up against City or someone in the next riound and you can't afford to gift them a goal.

[zigackly]

Anyone think we might be transitioning to a more attacking side and if we get it right then leaking the odd goal might not be too bad, or is that just me?

[Jairzinho]

Anyone think we might be transitioning to a more attacking side and if we get it right then leaking the odd goal might not be too bad, or is that just me?

 

Its pretty much what I expected.

 

Score more. Concede more. Do better in the league. Possibly not do so well in Europe.

[ritchie]

Anyone think we might be transitioning to a more attacking side and if we get it right then leaking the odd goal might not be too bad, or is that just me?

 

On the face of it, yes. But we're actually conceding fewer chances than anyone, but too many of them are self-inflicted errors that are ending up in the back of the net.

 

These goals are so avoidable. It's more down to defensive error than good attacking play. Look at our goals at Stoke - excellent attacking play, rather than just bad defending. Look at their goal - defensive fuck up. Same at the Britannia in the league.

[VladimirIlyich]

 

Its pretty much what I expected.

 

Score more. Concede more. Do better in the league. Possibly not do so well in Europe.

 

This.

If you cast your mind back to the halcyon days of Kennys first stint our best form of defence was attack.

Towards the end of Kennys first stint and particularly when jockey retired when Kenny tried to get defensively clever we took a few hammerings because of it.

 

I think at the moment we are still trying to find the balance and patience is needed.

[zigackly]

On the face of it, yes. But we're actually conceding fewer chances than anyone, but too many of them are self-inflicted errors that are ending up in the back of the net.

 

Oh I agree with that alright, but up the other end we are only converting 10% of our shots or something like that.

 

Improve at either end of the pitch and we're on a winner, but at the moment each problem makes the other look worse.

[Fowler laa!]

I would suck me da's dick if it meant us gettin a peaked Sami Hyypia back, what an absolute legend!!!

 

I do agree though that some of the mistakes shouldnt have happened to be fair, mainly the Carragher v Bolton, Coates v Stoke and the brighton one. They were very bad mistakes, but were soon forgotten as we actually won these games. If we didnt pick up 3 points here or go through to the next round of the cup am sure the mistakes would have been brought to attention alot more.

 

Im confident we can sort this out though, its just finding the right balance between defence and attack. If you look at the goals conceded since the Spurs game, i think getting that balance has already improved.

[ritchie]

Oh I agree with that alright, but up the other end we are only converting 10% of our shots or something like that.

 

Improve at either end of the pitch and we're on a winner, but at the moment each problem makes the other look worse.

 

They could both do with sorting out. We need 10 chances to score, but every other chance the opposition create ends up in the net.

[Guest SpiderLucas]

Give Agger and Skrtel a chance to play together and watch the defence improve instantly.

[piscinin]

Give Agger and Skrtel a chance to play together and watch the defence improve instantly.

 

That's really the long and short of it. It's been obvious since we signed johnson that Carragher can no longer defend big spaces. So if we want to play in this open, stretched style that gives us the space to create chances then we really can't be carrying on like we are.

 

If we want to play Carragher we need to play compact. If we want to stretch out we need mobile defenders who are happy covering lots of ground and will not just continuously give ground until the space in front of the attackers is so large that no-one can cover it; nor all the runs into it that are offered up.

 

Kenny either needs to put back the two man shield or pick the personnel to suit the game plan. Otherwise, we will continue to concede from the few but high quality chances we are giving away.

 

To be honest I don't see how anyone can make a case for Carragher based on his performances this season. I thought he'd just had a slow start and would pick up, but that's not happening.

 

Organizationally, we've been a mess. His clearances are going straight back to the opposition. He's not marking properly. He's no kind of impediment in aerial contests. His natural game is the opposite to the one we're trying to play.

 

We need to grow a set and start building around Agger, Skrtel and Coates. Their ability to not surrender possession indiscriminately will more than compensate for errors while they are establishing their partnerships/adapting to the league.

[zigackly]

Sadly I think you are right piscinin. It at least needs to be tried, although I have some doubts about the intelligence of Skrtel and Agger as a partnership. I wouldn't say Carra is done yet, and there are certain games where his experience should be called on, but this is the season we need to begin thinking of the future.

[VladimirIlyich]

If we'd have taken our chances v utd and norwich we'd be four points better off and in the top three or four.

That suggests that the attacking element is letting us down more.

Although both the goals v utd and norwich could easily have been prevented,especially pepe's howler but only being 1 nil up is always tenuous whoever you are.

[piscinin]

Sadly I think you are right piscinin. It at least needs to be tried, although I have some doubts about the intelligence of Skrtel and Agger as a partnership. I wouldn't say Carra is done yet, and there are certain games where his experience should be called on, but this is the season we need to begin thinking of the future.

 

Yeah, I understand the doubts, for me they're because Skrtel is one of those high risk ball chasers that needs someone like Carragher who can cover behind and read the inevitable miscalculations. I think Agger can do that though, for me he's easily the most adaptable defender we have.

 

Carragher is definitely not done, but we really need to be much more clever about how we use him. I'm actually a bit disappointed because he's sort of being hung out to dry. We're setup in such a way that is going to highlight his weaknesses. That's got to take a toll mentally when you know you are going to be constantly put in positions you struggle with. And of course it doesn't help that since Arbeloa left our right backs instead of protecting Carragher need protection themselves. It's horrible really.

 

But there will definitely be games where we will need to defend for our lives and Carragher will, again, be the first name on the team sheet. Let's hope we don't shred his confidence before then.

[piscinin]

If we'd have taken our chances v utd and norwich we'd be four points better off and in the top three or four.

That suggests that the attacking element is letting us down more.

Although both the goals v utd and norwich could easily have been prevented,especially pepe's howler but only being 1 nil up is always tenuous whoever you are.

 

It's easy to look at it that way but if you can't do the basics of defending properly you won't be successful. If we'd marked those players properly we'd be 4 points better off!

 

If we had suarez, fowler and torres up front I'd maybe share the optimism. But let's face it, it's all Suarez and if he hits the wall after playing non-stop for as long as he has then the ability to keep clean sheets becomes a very big deal.

[PaulMcC]

Anyone think we might be transitioning to a more attacking side and if we get it right then leaking the odd goal might not be too bad, or is that just me?

 

We aren't defending a high line or anything. It's just basic, shit mistakes that we shouldn't be making.

[zigackly]

We aren't defending a high line or anything. It's just basic, shit mistakes that we shouldn't be making.

 

But that's part of the problem mate, we have big gaps to the midfield and the right backs charge forward because we have no width on that side otherwise, so Carra in particular is getting exposed. He's still putting a hell of a shift in but he can't get around like he used to.

 

As piscinin says above, he's being hung out to dry a bit.

 

I was the first person to slag anyone off for having a go at Carra at the start of the season, but sadly the way we are playing emphasizes the ageing process.

[liverpoolsno9]

If we'd have taken our chances v utd and norwich we'd be four points better off and in the top three or four.

That suggests that the attacking element is letting us down more.

Although both the goals v utd and norwich could easily have been prevented,especially pepe's howler but only being 1 nil up is always tenuous whoever you are.

 

no doubt we deserved to win those games, but I hate the whole 'if' argument. If Newcastle had took all their chances they'd might be top, ditto spurs etc etc etc. If we win all our games from now, we'll finish champions, every team has 'if only' thoughts. The goals conceded have been down to rank bad defending, simple as that & it's a major concern. I'd say the defending element is letting us down more as when we're 1 up we should see the game out.

[PaulMcC]

But that's part of the problem mate, we have big gaps to the midfield and the right backs charge forward because we have no width on that side otherwise, so Carra in particular is getting exposed. He's still putting a hell of a shift in but he can't get around like he used to.

 

As piscinin says above, he's being hung out to dry a bit.

 

I was the first person to slag anyone off for having a go at Carra at the start of the season, but sadly the way we are playing emphasizes the ageing process.

 

Looking at a lot of the goals, they're just basic maistakes.

 

Carra v Bolton, Carra and Skrtel v the Mancs, Flanagan v Sunderland, Spearing and Carra v Brighton. Pepe and the 2 defenders letting Holt go v Norwich.

 

None of them were anyting to do with us attacking too much imo.

[zigackly]

Looking at a lot of the goals, they're just basic maistakes.

 

Carra v Bolton, Carra and Skrtel v the Mancs, Flanagan v Sunderland, Spearing and Carra v Brighton. Pepe and the 2 defenders letting Holt go v Norwich.

 

None of them were anyting to do with us attacking too much imo.

 

It's a fair point to make, but mistakes come when you're not feeling 100% confident. There are times when we've been opened up and been lucky on the finishing.

 

Like I said above, he is far from done, but sadly I am starting to see the beginning of the end.