"The Liverpool Way"

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Randy speaks sense.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and that's fair enough, but when it gets personal, then it really crosses the line, and no Liverpool manager deserves personal abuse.

 

We have alot of internet warriors around here, and the days when we were the most knowledgeable fans have long since past.

 

It's always been the same in my view. Before the birth of the internet it just wasn't so accessible at the click of a button. But the same discussions were being held on playgrounds, in schools or down the pub. The internet has just magnified things as it has done in all walks of life.

[d.k.E.]

No, I meant this "imagined" rule that we can't openly say we want the manager gone, however that is expressed

[Whelan]

The last 15 minutes looking for a goal was also not your renowned "Liverpool Way" - so if he (Benitez) chucks it out of the window, why shouldnt we when we refer to him and his style of play..

 

Interesting logic.

 

 

 

Well, wrong more than interesting, and silly rather than logical! (smiley whistling face)

[Randy Marsh]

He can't put boots on and go out there and play for them can he?

 

They where goosed, the players have said that themselves. There was nothing left, no ideas, no energy, no confidence. It was painful to watch. The one thing I disagree with is he should have stuck the greek on and smashed balls up to him instead of Kuyt and Pacheco. But that's it, Rafa was largely powerless at that stage.

[Whelan]

No, I meant this "imagined" rule that we can't openly say we want the manager gone, however that is expressed

 

1. I disagree but you have as much right as I do to an opinion.

 

2. Stupid fucking cunt, not even from Liverpool what has it got to do with you etc.

 

Option 2, is for illiterate gobshites.

[Timão]

The people who should be having a word with themselves are those who are going all high and mighty about 'insults'.

 

Let me be clear, I strongly disagree with Rafa being referred to in some of the terms used on here over the last few months. He is, by far, the best manager we have had since Daglish.

 

However, 'the Liverpool way' died a long time ago.

 

Some of the people on here who are complaining about insults to Rafa are the same who tell us constantly that he cannot compete because of lack of money. Yet, the Liverpool Way, surely, was our ability to punch above our weight. Rafa himself used to do it quite well.

 

The Liverpool way is how we conduct our business off the pitch, and here we have long since gone off the path, including Rafa.

 

Surely, it died when one of our previous managers sold his heart-op story to that rag and was not sacked.

 

There are more important things about the Liverpool way than swearing about the manager.

[zigackly]

I realise that, I was responding to Walton's post equating how they play to being a signifier of the Liverpool Way, I think he is wrong, for the reason you have also suggested.

 

At the end of the day, all teams who play well, and this includes Rafa's and Ged's have played good football.

 

I think the problem is two fold, one, time is a great healer, so the errors of past managers and players are less and less painfull than the present. And two, the ease at which a fan can watch all of our games now, unlike the past where bar the odd live match, or highlights on match of the day (if we were featured!), you looked to the result and not the performance.

 

If Liverpool played Oxord at home in 1984 and you lived outside of Liverpool and didn't go, it wouldn't be on Match of the day, you wouldn't see the goals and you would probably only read a brief description of the match, but we won. Now that same match can be watched by anyone, anywhere and the platforms to critique are more global. Hence the shite we have now.

 

I watched a lot of run of the mill shite from Liverpool, in a time when you could lose four or five matches and win the league.

 

Some very good points there mate.

[Guest The Chimp]

It's always been the same in my view. Before the birth of the internet it just wasn't so accessible at the click of a button. But the same discussions were being held on playgrounds, in schools or down the pub. The internet has just magnified things as it has done in all walks of life.

 

That's not strictly true though is it? You get people on forums acting the cunt safe in the knowledge they can't be pulled. Some of the stuff spouted by some people on here to others would result in a few kickings if it was in real life. That's the thing though isn't it? If it was indeed in real life then a bit more common courtesy and respect would be shown - something which I hope all of us want to see more of on here.

 

Edit: Post #57 by Whelan demonstrates this much better than I have.

[RedBrian84]

There is clearly a difference between the pro-Rafa/anti-Rafa debate, and the ridiculous level of disraceful abuse aimed at him.

 

Is it necessary to be so personal? I can understand when people are frustrated with his managerial decisions, but I cannot for the life of me comprehend stuff like "he's a fat cunt" and "scumbag".

 

I remember when Houllier left us. Deep in shit, next to no money, and a shit squad (say what you like about the current squad, it was never as bad as that), coupled with the lingering threat of our Captain leaving. People were angry, and frustrated. In many ways, not too dissimilar to now. And yet there was never this much anger, this much bile. It's really quite depressing.

 

I'm not happy with how things have gone. I'm not happy with some of the things that Rafael Benitez has done, whether that be substitutions, squad selections, transfers or whatever, but we're fans of this football club, and we (as I like to think) in general, are level minded, decent people. There is no need whatsoever to fire that kind of personal, nasty venom in the direction of the manager.

 

For fucks sake, Diouf got less abuse when he spat at that Celtic fan.

 

Like it or not, pro-Rafa or anti-Rafa, here is a manager who will rightly claim his place next to Paisley and Fagan as managers who lifted the European Cup with Liverpool. He restored our pride and has been fully devoted to this football club. That includes in his personal life as well, moving his family here and they too have been committed to his cause.

 

People need to show a hell of a lot more propriety and perspective before they make judgements and throw abuse like that. I appreciate that there are differing opinions about whether he should leave or stay, but there is no need to make it personal.

[Guest PurpleNose]

The people who should be having a word with themselves are those who are going all high and mighty about 'insults'.

 

Let me be clear, I strongly disagree with Rafa being referred to in some of the terms used on here over the last few months. He is, by far, the best manager we have had since Daglish.

 

However, 'the Liverpool way' died a long time ago.

 

Some of the people on here who are complaining about insults to Rafa are the same who tell us constantly that he cannot compete because of lack of money. Yet, the Liverpool Way, surely, was our ability to punch above our weight. Rafa himself used to do it quite well.

 

The Liverpool way is how we conduct our business off the pitch, and here we have long since gone off the path, including Rafa.

 

Surely, it died when one of our previous managers sold his heart-op story to that rag and was not sacked.

 

There are more important things about the Liverpool way than swearing about the manager.

 

Fuck off you stupid cunt face.

[d.k.E.]

Interesting logic.

 

 

 

Well, wrong more than interesting, and silly rather than logical! (smiley whistling face)

 

I would point out that it is wrong/silly in your opinion, almighty uber-fan that you are and all that, hey la?

[Whelan]

I would point out that it is wrong/silly in your opinion, almighty uber-fan that you are and all that, hey la?

 

You see I was being twatish to point out the fact that how you say something to someone does matter!

 

As you have just wonderfully illustrated!

[Guest Pistonbroke]

That's not strictly true though is it? You get people on forums acting the cunt safe in the knowledge they can't be pulled. Some of the stuff spouted by some people on here to others would result in a few kickings if it was in real life. That's the thing though isn't it? If it was indeed in real life then a bit more common courtesy and respect would be shown - something which I hope all of us want to see more of on here.

 

Edit: Post #57 by Whelan demonstrates this much better than I have.

 

I agree with that. But you still had it going on before the birth of the internet albeit on a smaller scale. That is how most fights down the pub or in school started which were football related. The keyboard commando's are a problem now though. Just laugh about them, i do mate.

[GJM]

Believe

 

The chap front right is exactly how I imagine young Hermes to look.

 

Not that I imagine him that often, you understand.

[Antynwa]

Because 7th Place, no Trophies, and a constant reminder when shit hits the fan that he could have went elsewhere, is the Liverpool way no?

 

I stand by what I said.

 

Ps. I sung/sang his name last night.

[Bogman]

Because 7th Place, no Trophies, and a constant reminder when shit hits the fan that he could have went elsewhere, is the Liverpool way no?

 

I stand by what I said.

 

Ps. I sung/sang his name last night.

 

 

So you sang his name last night, but spend 5/5ths of your days on here knifing him up.

 

Umm, two faced me thinks.

[bigal]

I see that I had a comment put up in the original post.

Rafa did great things here and it's not all his fault that things have gone wrong. However, in my opinion, he does things which are incomprehensible at times. His loyalty to El Zhar is one. He is a one dimensional player who will never make it here or any other Premier League club. Yet he is often Rafa's first call from the bench. Unfathomable for me. Sorry if my flippant remark upset you.

[Antynwa]

So you sang his name last night, but spend 5/5ths of your days on here knifing him up.

 

Umm, two faced me thinks.

 

I go the match to support, I just don't see the point in going the match and completely going off on one at every player and every person.

 

That being said I did alot of heated debate with a few fans for a bit in the pub.

 

Call me two faced by all means, but I don't care.

[Whelan]

I His loyalty to El Zhar is one. .

 

Loyalty!

 

The lad has hardly featured and only did so last night because nobody else was available! Sorry Al, but as poor as I think El Zhar is, that seems a bizzare thing to say.

[ChicagoRed]

The Liverpool Way was and hopefully will be, a culture of doing everything the "right" way - on the field and off it. It is built on respect - both given and expected, and a belief that winning is the result of many things, done consistently well over time, with no quick fixes or knee jerk panics. It is a classy way, without being flashy or populist - middle of the road, based on common sense, decency, and "family"

 

Rafa, with very few exceptions, has conducted himself very much in the "Liverpool Way", but that does not mean that he has not made big mistakes.

 

He has also lived in a nightmarish environment, very different from the days of Smith and later Moores. The present owners are in it for business reasons, and Rafa's football judgment was compromised by business considerations. But he's not alone in the PL in that regard, or in any other league for that matter. I doubt if they understand the Liverpool Way.

 

But as to the fans on this forum, those of us who grew up in Liverpool know that the city boasts a broad spectrum of people. What distinguishes Scousers from the rest of the world is easy to define - we wear our hearts on our sleeve, we let our emotions rule, we are quick to anger, we are slow to forgive and forget, but we are loyal, we are also very good at some things - football being one of them. We also don't bow our heads to anyone, and we know that you don't undermine the thing you love, you build it up.

 

Much of the rancid abuse directed at targets like Rafa, Lucas, Babel, H & G is just an inarticulate venting of frustration. Frustration at the situation, and frustration at having neither an idea nor the ability to express one. But it's in the family. Many of the supporters applauding Rafa feel that they have the right to be critical "among us".

 

A few of them regrettably can't tell where criticism stops and abuse begins and they let the team down.

 

It's a pity, because if there was something there - a big IF - it would be lost in the mist of the abuse.

[Red Mist]

A little unfair to quote me in the original post. All I did was call Rafa a 'fat man'. Hardly as insulting as some of the other slurs aimed at that tubby twat from some fans.

[bigal]

Loyalty!

 

The lad has hardly featured and only did so last night because nobody else was available! Sorry Al, but as poor as I think El Zhar is, that seems a bizzare thing to say.

 

I'm surprised that you see that as bizarre. El Zhar has been around the bench for three years or more now. I think most managers would have got rid a while back yet he was given a new contract, which is loyalty. I agree there was a lack of impact on the bench, but who thought El Zhar would have any? Pacheco surely would have more chance of doing something?

[Bogman]

I go the match to support, I just don't see the point in going the match and completely going off on one at every player and every person.

 

That being said I did alot of heated debate with a few fans for a bit in the pub.

 

Call me two faced by all means, but I don't care.

 

 

I ain't bothered what you do either mate, at least your man enough to admit you hide behind your keyboard slagging the manager off rather than doing it to his face .;)

[WaltonRed]

I know what Ants saying, I slag players off and the manager but when you go the match its totally different.

[Whelan]

I'm surprised that you see that as bizarre. El Zhar has been around the bench for three years or more now. I think most managers would have got rid a while back yet he was given a new contract, which is loyalty. I agree there was a lack of impact on the bench, but who thought El Zhar would have any? Pacheco surely would have more chance of doing something?

 

I agree totally that Pacheco should have come on, but as I said I think he wanted more pace (particularly on the break) which isn't Pacheco. I can't stand the lad playing, a completely pointless subsitution for me, as his attempt at a cross proved. I think the contracts is a bit misleading, sometimes it is done to ensure a fee, as it was with Hamill.