Surely you dont mean this Rafa ?

[goatboy59]

In fairness quite a lot of fans wanted Gerard gone when he came 5th.

 

League Cup wasn't good enough.

 

Moores said 4th was the minimum acceptable requirement back then. With people over-emphasising the economic considerations to an absurd degree they make it sound like even that was over-ambitious, as if City should automatically overtake a team about 25 points better than them last season.

 

Simply no one at the club to tell him to stop talking rubbish, except 2 (3 if Purslow is more influential now) twats who absolutely DO think the money and thus the CL cash cow is of primary importance.

[Cardie]

Malouda, Heinze. Two players Rafa didn't get who he wanted. Two players who are arguably shit.

 

Dani Alves, Simao, Tevez etc etc but as you say fuck context (be interesting to apply that little rule to alot of your posts both here and on YNWA that you've backtracked on) let's just try and get as completely one eyed as possible to force a point.

[The 5th Benitel]

Well I'm not sure I agree he's spitting in your face, but if that's the way you see it, I am sure nothing I say is going to change that. Sure, what he is doing is about rebuilding a relationship, but what he is doing is also about the kind of fans we have today.

 

I think if he carries on pissing off the core of match going support like i know he did yesterday then he'll find it very hard. Those are the people who stuck by him and are also the ones who tend to end up swaying how most of our fans think. Commentators and journalists always talk about 'The Kop' loving him and that's just shorthand for 'the crowd'. Armchair fans tend to end up going along with the general vibe from the match goers.

 

Plus, it's those fans who's voices get heard by the owners and by the media. I know for a fact he's getting very close to tipping point with a lot of these fans and he knows more than anyone how influential they can be.

[SpeedyG]

I think if he carries on pissing off the core of match going support like i know he did yesterday then he'll find it very hard. Those are the people who stuck by him and are also the ones who tend to end up swaying how most of our fans think. Commentators and journalists always talk about 'The Kop' loving him and that's just shorthand for 'the crowd'. Armchair fans tend to end up going along with the general vibe from the match goers.

 

Plus, it's those fans who's voices get heard by the owners and by the media. I know for a fact he's getting very close to tipping point with a lot of these fans and he knows more than anyone how influential they can be.

 

I don't doubt any of that.

[05 Milan]

Spot on by real red, as ever.

[stringvest]

Losing Alonso was the key, I think. When that sod decided to go, it seemed we had nothing left in midfield, we relied on him so much.

 

 

I suppose that's what happens when Rafa puts all his eggs in one Basque get.

 

I'm sure I've read that before, but just in case, let me doff my flat cap.

[Thants]

Quality Global King Whetstone 800 grit Medium G800 at CookInStyle.co.uk - G800

[Brownie]

I was really pissed off until I read through this thread, it's cheered me up no end.

 

I only smiled a bit at the idea we should be looking to Portsmouth for tips - and I'm not talking about their financial troubles, I'm talking about the way they put everything into winning the FA Cup. I only smiled a bit at the idea we should be putting our strongest side out in the League Cup a few days after a draining game against the Mancs and ahead of two big games in the League and Champions League. I laughed as I thought how those Saudis in those pictures recently all had trophies dotted around the place - if they want a trophy they get one made and create a tournament for it. We could do that, it'd be cheaper than spending out on new players every summer.

 

Anyway, I might be wrong in terms of my understanding of it, but I think what Rafa was trying to say was absolutely right.

 

He's not said that we should be happy with finishing second, he's not said we should start putting "runners-up" on our honours board, he's basically said that you've got to get yourself into the position where you're one of those challenging for the honours. You'll not win anything if you're not one of those challenging. But challenging isn't a guarantee of winning, and failing to win despite challenging isn't necessarily failure.

 

If the best squad in the land was cloned and played against 'itself' 38 times would it end in a draw 38 times? If you fixed it so the games were all played indoors to avoid differences in temperature, fixed it so each team won the toss an even number of times and so on, would it be all-square at the end of it all? If it wasn't, would the losing manager be a failure and not fit to manage that side - even though he was identical to the one who won?

 

If you played a 'cup' game with the two sides that had to go to extra time and pens if necessary, would the game never end because they'd just keep missing and scoring at the same rate and same time? If there was a winner, would that make the loser shite?

 

Yes, the losing side would be disappointed, yes the losing manager would be going over it all to see if he could have changed anything. But the winning manager would also be going over it all to see if anything could be improved, if anything worked out of luck more than design. Maybe one of the two managers would become shite in time because he'd change the wrong things each time and break what was working without fixing what was broken.

 

I don't think the two sides would end the 38 games with the exact same points and everything, I don't think the cup match would still be all square even after 200 penalties. So what would it be that made the difference? It wouldn't be down to one manager being shitter than his identical cloned opposite number.

 

If the so-called top four all got given an identical, cloned, manager and squad for next season, what sorts of things would make the difference? Would the Manc hierarchy be more likely to get their manager off an FA charge than the LFC hierarchy? Would the medical facilities in place at Arsenal mean they'd have players back from injury quicker than Chelsea? Which team would be most likely to suffer from interference in team matters from above? Would fans make a difference? LFC's support is often called the 12th man but is it a bit of a Voronin at times? Would Arsenal's players even realise they had fans?

 

It's obvious to anyone who reads it at face value what Rafa was trying to say. If he'd thought it through a bit more, maybe if English was his first language, he'd have found better words to say what he was trying to say. Maybe he'd have added that once you've got the best possible squad you can that after that it's down to luck to some extent, but also to the passion of the players and supporters to make that bit of a difference. And there are one or two other bits and pieces that can make a difference.

 

Ferguson's built some good squads in the years he's been at that club, but they've often been matched by other teams in terms of how good they are. He's used his pressure on referees and other officials to make the slight difference. He's done the mind-games thing. Obviously he's gained experience every year and he knows which experiments are best not revisited.

 

It's a slight difference, but I don't think Rafa is saying "2nd is a success". He's saying it's an achievement because it's a sign of progress. He's also saying it's not a failure - even if two identical sides meet up or fight for the league one has to lose. You don't aim to be second, but you aim to be in that final. If you get to the final that's when you really start aiming to win it. And if you're still in the quarter-finals you've got to focus on winning that first, otherwise you're stood there singing and dreaming about a city you'll not be going to.

 

I'm not saying we are identical to the others, that's another debate in itself, but as far as these comments are concerned Rafa's said nothing wrong.

 

I respect your view, Jim, and I like the way you construct your posts. I disagree with you on this subject though.

 

You should change your Avatar signature to 'Spinning'.

 

;-)

[Salte]

A few on this thread sound like they fit right in at the Real Madrid board (i don't know for a fact they have a board, but the point still stands).

[RedinSweden]

While i understand the point he is making, and don't think that a lack of trophies any particular year is a necessarily a reason to get rid, this is really badly thought out, and does nothing to help the current situation.

[zico]

I can see what he is trying to say.

 

But Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies, that much is certain.

 

If we cannot compete with the rich clubs that will remain a distant memory...

 

Maybe we can sneak a cup or two every now and then, but without major investment our squad will never be good enough to challenge on four fronts or over a whole season for that matter.....

[Hermes]

Today's pearler of a comment: “We try to progress in both competitions but the level of competition is not easy."

 

Yes, well what do you expect? you could always trying playing against pub teams in the park.

[Count Morfeo]

Dani Alves, Simao, Tevez etc etc but as you say fuck context (be interesting to apply that little rule to alot of your posts both here and on YNWA that you've backtracked on) let's just try and get as completely one eyed as possible to force a point.

 

Rafa could have had Alvez and Simao. It was Rafa who pulled the plug on both of those deals. Not Parry, not the board.

[Unrighteous]

A few on this thread sound like they fit right in at the Real Madrid board (i don't know for a fact they have a board, but the point still stands).

 

Except this is Rafa's fifth year, and Pellegrini has been in charge for eight games.

 

Don't let reality get in the way of your... rather shite point.

[t1971]

Rafa could have had Alvez and Simao. It was Rafa who pulled the plug on both of those deals. Not Parry, not the board.

 

Not surprisingly though and the price kept rising from what was agreed, especially with Simao, who went up £4m in a day.

[Count Morfeo]

Not surprisingly though and the price kept rising from what was agreed, especially with Simao, who went up £4m in a day.

 

Perhaps, but their fees were bargains compared to the £18m he wanted to pay for Barry and the £19m we paid for Keane.

[Carra_is_legend]

Not surprisingly though and the price kept rising from what was agreed, especially with Simao, who went up £4m in a day.

 

I wish we paid what was asked for Simao. We wouldn't have Babel in the squad today if we had done that.

[Catch22]

Rafa could have had Alvez and Simao. It was Rafa who pulled the plug on both of those deals. Not Parry, not the board.

 

 

Alvez was pulled by Del Nido who had absolutely no intention of letting him go for £12m.

 

Even the Russian money-launderers couldn't get him for twice that a year later so there was fuck all chance we could have done.

[Ted]

Alves was pulled by Benitez who didn't want to be seen to be caving in to the demands of someone like Del Nido.

 

It was all about saving face for him.

[Hermes]

The epitaphs.

 

Bill Shankly: "First is first, second is nowhere"

 

Bob Paisley: "Mind, I've been here during the bad times too. One year we came second"

 

Rafa Benitez: "I think reducing the gap between the top team and Liverpool to four points was a massive achievement".

[Unrighteous]

The epitaphs.

 

Bill Shankly: "First is first, second is nowhere"

 

Bob Paisley: "Mind, I've been here during the bad times too. One year we came second"

 

Rafa Benitez: "I think reducing the gap between the top team and Liverpool to four points was a massive achievement".

 

Emboldened are managerial words to live by...

 

The Italicized are managerial words... They are definitely words

[Salte]

Except this is Rafa's fifth year, and Pellegrini has been in charge for eight games.

 

Don't let reality get in the way of your... rather shite point.

You wouldn't know, as you obviously didnt get it. Just forget it, you wouldn't want to overwork your brain.

[Unrighteous]

You wouldn't know, as you obviously didnt get it. Just forget it, you wouldn't want to overwork your brain.

 

It's not my fault that you've got the writing skill of a squirrel, and make points worse than my fourth grade history teacher.

[Paul]

DO you really think this is what he says to the players when we get to a final, or is this really just another case of trying to reset fan expectations so they don't put pressure on the team?

 

I've got absolutely no idea what he says - seriously. Rafa is a complete enigma at the best of times and these ones are pretty fucking far from that.