Surely you dont mean this Rafa ?

[Unrighteous]

I wouldn't tolerate Rafa because of the owners if I didn't think he was capable of turning things around, as I said I agree to a certain extent.

 

I find it difficult to accept that we've gone from second in the league (I know, it's not "success" in trophy terms) to shite overnight.

 

And when it comes to the crunch, it will be our custodians calling the shots. It may be with the help of Kenny but it's still those two who do the hiring and firing, and that's what scares me the most.

 

It's definitely hard to believe but haven't those six losses in the last seven matches been a bit sobering? We've had some truly shocking displays this season.

 

I'd like to add that we've not had a sustained run of shit in Rafa's entire reign, like we've done this year.

 

Even our yearly dip hasn't ever been this bad.

[Red Nick]

Rafa has lost the dressing room and thats clear for anyone to see.

 

The players dont need motivating for Manu but should be performing against Sunderland and Fulham but they arent a clear sign that the manager doesnt have the full support of his players and to be fair if I was JC and kept seeing Insua in the team I might question the Managers sanity

[Crazyhorse7778]

Nick's on a rampage tonight. Quality stuff.

[RedKnight]

I wouldn't tolerate Rafa because of the owners if I didn't think he was capable of turning things around, as I said I agree to a certain extent.

 

I find it difficult to accept that we've gone from second in the league (I know, it's not "success" in trophy terms) to shite overnight.

 

And when it comes to the crunch, it will be our custodians calling the shots. It may be with the help of Kenny but it's still those two who do the hiring and firing, and that's what scares me the most.

 

As I said elsewhere, maybe we have to look at the possibility that last year was the exception, not the rule.

[Red Nick]

Nick's on a rampage tonight. Quality stuff.

 

The worst thing about it even though I know what Rafa has become my main concern is focusing on the owners and this only plays into the owners hands.

[Section_31]

As I said elsewhere, maybe we have to look at the possibility that last year was the exception, not the rule.

 

As I said on the match thread, I think a season like this was inevitable.

 

Liverpool under Rafa have never had a 'system' for attacking and winning matches IMO, and we've always relied on our few creative and self-assured players to take it upon themselves to win the match, or inspire others to win the match. For that to happen, they have to be playing at least 80% of their best in every match, and you need luck with injuries.

 

As long as we had both, we could stem the tide of shite stinking out our flanks and bench, but now we've lost one of those one-man engines (Alonso) and two others have been in poor form (Gerrard and Carragher) and the team and squad simply cannnot cope - because we don't have a system. What freaks me out the most, is that it's something Rafa can't grasp - he genuinely does not seem to understand that replacing a Torres with an Ngog is not just a case of removing one piece of the engine and replacing it with a component of slightly lesser quality - but a case of actually removing the whole engine itself and replacing it with nothing.

 

Torres creates and scores, Gerrard creates and scores, Alonso created and scored, Johnson creates and scores - the TEAM doesn't.

[Unrighteous]

As I said on the match thread, I think a season like this was inevitable.

 

Liverpool under Rafa have never had a 'system' for attacking and winning matches IMO, and we've always relied on our few creative and self-assured players to take it upon themselves to win the match, or inspire others to win the match. For that to happen, they have to be playing at least 80% of their best in every match, and you need luck with injuries.

 

As long as we had both, we could stem the tide of shite stinking out our flanks and bench, but now we've lost one of those one-man engines (Alonso) and two others have been in poor form (Gerrard and Carragher) and the team and squad simply cannnot cope - because we don't have a system. What freaks me out the most, is that it's something Rafa can't grasp - he genuinely does not seem to understand that replacing a Torres with an Ngog is not just a case of removing one piece of the engine and replacing it with a component of slightly lesser quality - but a case of actually removing the whole engine itself and replacing it with nothing.

 

Torres creates and scores, Gerrard creates and scores, Alonso created and scored, Johnson creates and scores - the TEAM doesn't.

 

 

Definitely on the money here.

 

You could see the difference in ours and United's attacking play. When we got forward, we'd have Torres in/around the box, and if people went to join him then it was a bonus.

 

When United managed to get the ball forward, they were trying to get four guys into the box! FOUR! They give the ball out wide and get four men into the box looking for service.

 

That's why they score so many bloody goals, and manage to come back from losing and score late goals.

 

We've got to rely on someone to make our attack... and hope it falls into place.

[Red Nick]

As I said on the match thread, I think a season like this was inevitable.

 

Liverpool under Rafa have never had a 'system' for attacking and winning matches IMO, and we've always relied on our few creative and self-assured players to take it upon themselves to win the match, or inspire others to win the match. For that to happen, they have to be playing at least 80% of their best in every match, and you need luck with injuries.

 

As long as we had both, we could stem the tide of shite stinking out our flanks and bench, but now we've lost one of those one-man engines (Alonso) and two others have been in poor form (Gerrard and Carragher) and the team and squad simply cannnot cope - because we don't have a system. What freaks me out the most, is that it's something Rafa can't grasp - he genuinely does not seem to understand that replacing a Torres with an Ngog is not just a case of removing one piece of the engine and replacing it with a component of slightly lesser quality - but a case of actually removing the whole engine itself and replacing it with nothing.

 

Torres creates and scores, Gerrard creates and scores, Alonso created and scored, Johnson creates and scores - the TEAM doesn't.

 

Great post

 

Lets face the truth, how many points would we have this season without Torres and Gerrard

[SpeedyG]

Great post

 

Lets face the truth, how many points would we have this season without Torres and Gerrard

 

More than united would have without Rooney and Giggs.

[ThePositiveOne]

What the man is clearly saying is, that while we may not winning trophies right now, we will be soon, and long into the future...

 

Geez, if you lot cannot see that then you have serious issues.....

[Red Nick]

The most soul destroying thing about today is we lost because of the manager

 

In every other loss you could make an argument as to why we lost the game other than the managers decisions. However in this game there is no one to blame except the manager and that makes it so very sad

[col06]

The most soul destroying thing about today is we lost because of the manager

 

we lost because of what the players did on the pitch simples

[Mendoza]

we lost because of what the players did on the pitch simples

 

I'm sorry but that is blinkered in the extreme.

[col06]

I'm sorry but that is blinkered in the extreme.

 

how so btw am not defending rafa

[Mendoza]

how so btw am not defending rafa

 

 

O.k fair enough. i've had 12 pints. Probably best to have a nights sleep before i attempt to make a serious point...

[col06]

O.k fair enough. i've had 12 pints. Probably best to have a nights sleep before i attempt to make a serious point...

 

all am trying to say is some of the players look like they don't give a shit

[Mendoza]

all am trying to say is some of the players look like they don't give a shit

 

I agree. Torres and Benayoun give a shit. Rafa substituted them.

[ThePositiveOne]

chill guys...

[ThePositiveOne]

Bad day at the office....

[RoboRiise]

That's true to a certain extent, but would you trust the owners to make the right decision and back the new man? I wouldn't.

That said, I retain my own faith in Rafa so it's an easy answer on my part.

 

I can understand why people have reached saturation point with Rafa Benitez, although it's not my own view. I don't agree with those who say that there we'll be inundated with good quality candidates if a replacement is needed.

 

 

On top of that, if they brought a new man in and gave him £25m for players I'd have to suggest that if the robbing cunts had made that money available this summer as they promised, instead of giving the manager the money to buy one top quality player in Johnson and to replace Alonso, before having to go to them cap in hand begging for £2.5m to buy a journeyman 30 year old CB, then we might not be having this discussion.

 

Johnson was overpriced but the market is overpriced, that's reality - we've bought a top notch player there, as we've seen from his performances so far. Aquilani would likely have been more expensive if fully fit, I've heard several people better informed than me suggest he'd have been nearer the £30m mark.

 

I'm assuming the reason we didn't jizz away the kind of money Silva would have cost instead of getting Aquilani is that Benitez new full well that we needed some proper cover for Nando and another CB to provide strength and some aerial prowess in that area. He was even looking at rated young CBs who would have cost a hell of a sight more than Kyrgiakos, several people posted about that on here.

 

Then he got the rug pulled, which would have been worse than just telling him to begin with that he wouldn't be able to keep all the money raised from sales - I'm sure he would have reassessed his priorities and spent less on a RB if he knew his budget for purchases was going to be £25m less than we expected, despite the fact that we'd be signing more "squad players" and that would be fucking wrong too.

 

Anyone that's thinking about sucking Purslow's dick would do well to remember that the club decided to include the cost of renewing contracts (which we have to do at the end of every season) into the total announced transfer funds (which we haven't done previously at the end of any season). Somebody is bullshitting somewhere down the line, that's for sure and I make no apology for being more likely to believe the manager than some faceless fucking administrator.

 

Think about where we were at the end of last season. Despite knowing that Saint Xabi was going to leave, we looked a few signings away from a real challenge. We bought three players, one for £17m, one for £20m and one for £2.5m. The first two are the kind of quality we needed to buy, the third was so cheap because that's how much money we had left after we'd checked for 10p coins down the back of the settee. Given what we brought in from sales, is anyone honestly telling me that at the end of last season that's what they thought our summer spending would be after selling one player for £30m?

 

Bollocks to that, you know full well we were fucked over along with the boss. If the owners give some other cunt (because that's what we'll end up with if those wankers are in charge of things) the £25m that should have been available this summer, an amount that bears an uncanny fucking resemblance to what the owners were asked to find when the last refinancing took place, the only logical conclusion I can draw is that they didn't trust Rafa to spend it. That's their call, they are our custodians after all, but if that's the case they should have binned him in the summer and not asked him to carry on doing the job but hamstrung him. If they could find money for someone else now, the playing field is being tilted.

 

We've all got our own opinions and I won't have a pop at fellow reds if they've had enough, it's not for me to tell other people what they should find acceptable, but if he gets sacked, do me a favour. Look back on this thread when we're perenial Europa Cup contenders and being managed by some hopeless twat like Steve von Klaren, or when that smarmy shushing shitslurper Mourinho is gurning away in a press conference and picking up £8m of our transfer budget every year to finish within five points of United and Chelsea.

Edited November 1, 2009 by RoboRiise

[RoboRiise]

Rafa has lost the dressing room and thats clear for anyone to see.

 

The players dont need motivating for Manu but should be performing against Sunderland and Fulham but they arent a clear sign that the manager doesnt have the full support of his players and to be fair if I was JC and kept seeing Insua in the team I might question the Managers sanity

 

 

As opposed to who today Nick, Dossena or Aurelio on crutches? Go on, say they'd both have been better options - you know you want to.

[PaulMcC]

Alonso create and score?

 

Let's not rewrite history.

[PaulMcC]

I doubt the players have lost the manager, well Carra definitely hasn't or his da wouldn't have went mad at the London press for talking up the Benitez sacked stuff.

[Mathewbet1]

In the current situation we'd be better with Rafa than without. This season is far from over, and a few wins on the spin will change everything. Over recent weeks our lack of strength in depth has been exposed and we have had a fair ammount of bad luck. If Rafa can get all the players fit Im certain we'd go on a long winning streak.

 

The main thing this season, which is defining our season and somthing i've never seen before in a rafa team, is the disorganisation in defence. I go into every game expecting us to concede these days, i dont know if everyone eles feels the same. The main reasons for our defensive shambels is Carra's lack of form and the inexperience of Insua.

Carra looked better playing v the mancs when next to Agger but Insua should have a break in the next few games.

 

Rafa does and will in the comming weeks have to accept some responisibility. Some of his tactics and substitutions have been questionable in recent weeks. Its a tough time for every one, it seems that a combination of luck and a series of misfortunate events have put us in this situation.

 

If we loose on Wednesday the knives will out even moreso than today. I dont think he will get the boot though and would'unt want him too as he has done so much good since hes been here, and I cant for the life of me think of a manager I would prefer to be managing us.

[Little Sammy]

dare i say it but does it not remind anyone of Houllier in his last year

Was just going to say the same.

 

I remember Houllier being all "...well at least we played good football today" and "...well at least it wasn't a 5-0 thrashing", and Rafa seems to be having the same attitude.

 

I personally think he'd be a dead man walking at any other top club. But Liverpool obviously aren't any other club at the moment.