Gerrard out for 3 weeks!

[satmann]

Rooney did his on the 14th jan against wigan. Not sure if it was tear or not. But hes back for their game against west ham this weekend. So that was about 3 weeks.

[Catch22]

Let's see if I understand the duty Rafa bashers on here.

 

1. Rafa takes Stevie off against Wigan because he is tired and he wants to make sure he is available against Everton.

 

2. He gets slated for it by the Rafa bashers some of whom ask "is this the worst mistake in LFC's history?" and "Stevie and Nando should be played all the time". "Stevie can score standing on one leg"

 

3. He plays Stevie at Everton (probably hoping to rest him for the second half if we are winning).

 

4. The duty Rafa bashers approve the team selection.

 

5. Stevie tears a hamstring in the 15th minute. Rafa points out that this is more likely to happen if a player is tired as Stevie was.

 

6. The duty Rafa bashers say Rafa is at fault for playing him!

 

Not satisfied with this prime piece of self-contradiction, the duty Rafa bashers using their special brand of circular logic then link the Stevie problem to the sale of Keane. (These are the same people who slated Keane's purchase and constant selection as another Rafa mistake. The same people who demand that Rafa should play youngsters). They say Rafa should have arranged a replacement. But these are the same people who cried bloody murder when the rumour went around that Rafa was trying to get Heskey even before the transfer window opened. They give no credit to Rafa's explanation that the offer from Spurs came too late to buy a replacement. And they conveniently forget that according to their own oft-repeated posts, Keane was no good anyway.

 

They criticise Rafa for losing a maximum of 3 million (possibly nothing) on the purchase and re-sale of Keane, but think he should have kept him as a stand-in for a few games for Stevie until the summer at the cost of another 2 million in wages and perhaps another 5 million in loss of value while depriving the youngsters of a chance to step up a level.

 

You forget that GH was "stubborn" when he played an expensive signing who wasn't good enough & didn't move him on.

Yet Rafa was "stubborn" for not playing an expensive signing who wasn't good enough & quickly moving him on.

 

"Stubborn" appears to have changed its meaning since i was at school & now means "made an expensive signing who is not good enough for Lfc"

 

Unfortunately that ignores the fact that the Rafa bashers cheered said bad signing as he is "proven by Sky".

 

You have also missed that Rafa has poor man-management skills & should be

replaced by Jose.

The evidence of this is that he did not give Robbie " a fair go" showing how bad he is at man-management compared to Jose.

The fact that Robbie played more games than Quaresma did at Inter before being moved on is somehow not discussed.

(& let's not mention Shevchenko who was actually proven at the highest level)

 

Rafa also doesn't buy flair players like Quaresma so lets replace him with Jose who gets rid of the Q-man as quickly as possible... er.

 

He is also personally responsible for us not having as much money as the Mancs.

If he wasn't so lazy he would personally have rebuilt our ground with his bare hands giving us an extra 30k capacity. Then again we all know how lazy Spanish builders are; nudge,nudge wink,wink

[Newport]

First of all, even though it's terrible for us this couldn't have happened at a better time, if you can say something like that at the moment,now that we'll have two weeks off after Pompey. It would be much worse if he got injured in a couple of weeks just before Madrid.

 

As for Pacheco, if he's given the opportunity and takes it might be his golden chance of getting. If not, Benayoun is good enough to do a decent job in the hole. I'd like to see that much more than a 4-4-2 with Kuyt and Torres who clearly doesn't fit together from what I have seen. Stay true to the 4-2-3-1 for the rest of the season and don't start changing things again.

[The 5th Benitel]

This made me laugh.

 

"When I took him off last week, people were saying he should be playing every single minute. Well now you see the consequences of that."

 

He's talking about us being pissed off with him cos he took Gerrard off for the last 5 mins when Wigan had just scored. Rather than accepting he fucked up he's trying to prove he was right for something ridiculous he did weeks ago. Surely the fact that he hasn't brought in anyone good enough to give Gerrard the odd games rest against weaker teams is the reason he's getting those types of injuries.

 

Does he think 5 mins would have made that much difference? And in trying to requalify his masterstroke he overlooked the fact that he got injured exactly a week after he got injured. Meaning we lost out on having on the pitch when we were desperate to score and he still ended up injured anyway.

[WaltonRed]

Jesus christ Rafa.

[Ted]

In the word supporter is the word support.

[The 5th Benitel]

In the word supporter is the word support.

 

I get 100% behind them at the match but that doesn't mean i have to agree with everything he says and does. If you pay to go the cinema does that mean you always have to say you enjoyed the film afterwards?

[Catch22]

Are you going to reply to my post about Pires?

 

I did. Any comment?

[Barrington Womble]

This made me laugh.

 

"When I took him off last week, people were saying he should be playing every single minute. Well now you see the consequences of that."

 

He's talking about us being pissed off with him cos he took Gerrard off for the last 5 mins when Wigan had just scored. Rather than accepting he fucked up he's trying to prove he was right for something ridiculous he did weeks ago. Surely the fact that he hasn't brought in anyone good enough to give Gerrard the odd games rest against weaker teams is the reason he's getting those types of injuries.

 

Does he think 5 mins would have made that much difference? And in trying to requalify his masterstroke he overlooked the fact that he got injured exactly a week after he got injured. Meaning we lost out on having on the pitch when we were desperate to score and he still ended up injured anyway.

 

The funny thing is he took him off - and he's still injured, so I don't get the point he's making. Is he saying actually he should have taken him off earlier? If that's the case, why didn't he? It's just bullshit in a bid to save his own skin because we're short of options in that part of the pitch. He must be thinking who can I blame for this one - I know I'll blame the fans.

[WaltonRed]

He must be thinking who can I blame for this one - I know I'll blame the fans.

 

In which case he's picking a battle he cant possibly win.

[aws]

I think by "people" he means the media rather than the fans and he's making the general point that he knows the fitness levels of his players better than anyone.

[Juan Galonso]

Even some of our own fans were singing Rafa's cracking up coming out of the ground last night. I wonder.

[Catch22]

The funny thing is he took him off - and he's still injured, so I don't get the point he's making. Is he saying actually he should have taken him off earlier? If that's the case, why didn't he? It's just bullshit in a bid to save his own skin because we're short of options in that part of the pitch. He must be thinking who can I blame for this one - I know I'll blame the fans.

 

He is trying to explain the situation better.

 

There is advanced sports science behind rotation/rest/injury & it is about changing the percentages involved

 

Every single advanced sport in the world engages in it from English Rugby continually in-fighting about how many games our players play to the ACB recently resting Ricky Ponting becuase he had played a certain number of cricket matches

 

Personally i thought the Wenger/Pires anecdote was insightful as it showed the thought process that needs to go thru top managers' minds.

Also that Wenger precisely admitted making a mistake.

 

Yet all the Sky media morons continually harp on about rotation.

(This is despite clear evidence that us, the Mancs & the Chavs rotate almost freakily similar amounts- personally i think they are all using the leatest research somewhere which suggest that this is an optimal amount).

 

 

When Rafa took Gerrard off against Wigan the obvious reason was that he was tired & so the chances of injury were higher.

Yet all the media comment was that it was incredibly stupid & THERE WAS NO RATIONAL THINKING BEHIND IT.

 

To say that or repeat that either suggests people are not willing to do even a small bit of research into the issue (despite being paid to fucking comment on it) or have a agenda to press.

 

Now, i am not saying that 7 mins was correct.

It may be that he should have come off earlier or indeed later although that seems unlikely given that he got injured very soon after.

 

But the debate is never along the lines of "Rafa clearly protecting Gerrard. Is he being over- or under- cautious. " It is instead Charlie Nicholas saying he cannot understand any reason behind it.

 

Tiredness increases injury risk; rest cures tiredness so reduces the risk of injury.

 

Personally i think Rafa has been under-roating since the Klinnsman nonsense as he bowed to fan/Yanks pressure.

That is why Torres is crocked this season & why Gerrard is now.

 

I thought the decison not to playt he kids at Preston & take a 2 week warm weather break was a very stupid & short-sighted one.

 

 

He is trying to explain to the fans & change the terms of the debate onto a more sensible one which is surely a good thing

[WaltonRed]

Catch you crack me up, not in a funny way either.

[Kevin D]

Fuck. Xabi Alonso and Yossi Benayoun must perform if we're to have any chance of stayin in this title race. I've singled out these because they can both influence a match more than the rest of our team and I'm confident they'll be the one's to shine.

 

This blaming the fan's business for Gerrard's injury is just bizzare. Harry Truman: " The buck stops here."

[dalglish2rush]

Time to look at the bigger picture.Gerrard is out injured,isnt Alonso banned for x amount of games to? plus does Lucas red card last night mean he is banned from premier league games as well.

 

 

good point,i was wondering what games alonso and lucas will miss.does anyone no? can it get any worse?,were short upfront and now in midfield too

[Major Tom]

I think by "people" he means the media rather than the fans and he's making the general point that he knows the fitness levels of his players better than anyone.

 

So, if he knew Gerrard was tired, why did he play him last night which would obviously heighten his chance of picking up an injury?

[Catch22]

So, if he knew Gerrard was tired, why did he play him last night which would obviously heighten his chance of picking up an injury?

 

 

By playing or resting you change the percentage chance of an injury.

You don't guarantee anything

 

Bu not resting Pires, Wenger did not guarantee that he would do his cruciate but he increased the chances of it.

Similar with Gerrard

 

It is a balancing act in which there are degrees of debate.

 

It is what makes the non-rotation criticism so backward & 1-dimensional

 

We should have used the kids at Preston & left the country as warm weather training is especially beneficial.

We probably should have taken Gerrard off earlier at Wigan & not played last night

I didn't see many people saying taht at the time though

 

Clearly in retrospect Torres was over-used last year yet all season the critics said he was under-used.

Why didn't he play vs Pompey, etc,etc

[ToxtethTerror]

We can't really complain, barring Torres we have had a reasonable season with injuries. We have built up a squad over several years now, its time for that squad to show up. Only as recently as a few seasons ago there were people on forums happy to sell Gerrard and give Rafa the money to buy quality. I've even saw stats that showed we got more points without Gerrard! So lets not complain eh, lets show people we can cope because I think we can. I do wish Keane was here mind! ;)

[BatChainPuller]

Fuck. Xabi Alonso and Yossi Benayoun must perform if we're to have any chance of stayin in this title race. I've singled out these because they can both influence a match more than the rest of our team and I'm confident they'll be the one's to shine.

 

This blaming the fan's business for Gerrard's injury is just bizzare. Harry Truman: " The buck stops here."

 

I think we can count on Xabi - pretty much our most consistent player this season, and Yossi is really starting to look the business in the last few games. I'd really like to see him in the second striker or advanced midfielder role - there were some good signs last night when he played there. He has the ability and the intelligence to link up well with Torres. Unfortunately given our lack of options on the right fear he will continue to be played in a role that clearly doesn't suit him or the team.

[ratcatcher]

Gutted gerrard will be out for 3 weeks if not longer. Remember the club originally said torres would only be out for 10 days!

 

Not getting involved with whether benitez was right \ wrong to take gerrard off against wigan etc, etc. Its happened. We need to live with it.

 

Draw the wagons in a circle and let's roll up our sleeves. Titles arent won easily. Champions come through adversity.

[Major Tom]

By playing or resting you change the percentage chance of an injury.

You don't guarantee anything

 

Bu not resting Pires, Wenger did not guarantee that he would do his cruciate but he increased the chances of it.

Similar with Gerrard

 

It is a balancing act in which there are degrees of debate.

 

 

Balancing act I agree.

 

But Benitez was basically saying 'I told you so' with his comments last night.

 

And if he knew there was an increased chance of an injury, and Gerrard was uber-fucking-tired, then why risk him? Just to make a point?

 

Well, point well made Rafa.

[isr]

You sound like Benitez (and Houllier)

So he's picking teams based on fans and media criticism now?

 

Benitez does, so maybe he should have made the decision to rest him and not pander to the so called 'Sky' generation. He's the manager after all.

 

You're going out of your way to be an ass. Shit on him if he does, and then shit on him because he doesn't. Self-serving bollocks.

 

And if he knew there was an increased chance of an injury, and Gerrard was uber-fucking-tired, then why risk him? Just to make a point?

Well, point well made Rafa.

 

Bollocks. The same twisting of facts and warped interpretations to suit the convenient agenda du jour.

 

You have to be a completely paranoid pea-brained nut-job to think that Rafa played Gerrard, secretly hoping that he would get injured, just so he could stick his tongue out afterwards and say "nah nah, I told you so".

 

When Rafa gets continuously pilloried for resting players, its not out of line to point out WHY he rests players, when the worst does happen. Doesn't imply that he WANTED the worst to happen.

 

Its not an exact science. If Gerrard rested yesterday, he still may have tweaked his hamstring on Saturday.

 

Why did Gerrard play yesterday? Because of the nature of the game, and the opposition - it was deemed as an important game. Important for our confidence, important for the fans. Simple.

 

Many times during the course of a long campaign, no matter how well you marshall your resources, you have to take a gamble at certain points. And the nature of gambles are, sometimes you lose.

 

We lost.

 

Deal with it and move on, instead of trying to always find cheap scapegoats.

[isr]

He must be thinking who can I blame for this one - I know I'll blame the fans.

 

In which case he's picking a battle he cant possibly win.

 

He's not blaming the "fans" for anything. Unless you have a quote where he actually says that, you're just making that up to suit your own personal feelings. Rather like much of what goes on at present. Twist and make up stuff, and view the rest with just one eye - all to back up your particular bias. Only serves to make your bias that much stronger, leading to more twisting of facts and selective viewing of events.

 

And on and on.

 

Besides, 75% of the "fans" who are currently moaning and bitching (and blaming Rafa for everything) will be only too happy to kiss his arse if he wins the title come May. So even if he DID pick a fight with a section of the "support", don't be so sure that "he can't possibly win".

 

He absolutely could. The fickleness, short-sightedness and convenience-driven hypocrisy which drives much of this "anti-Rafa" bandwagon are exactly the same reasons why most on that bandwagon would be only too happy to jump off it, right into Rafa's lap, come the end of the season.

[The 5th Benitel]

He's not blaming the "fans" for anything. Unless you have a quote where he actually says that, you're just making that up to suit your own personal feelings. Rather like much of what goes on at present. Twist and make up stuff, and view the rest with just one eye - all to back up your particular bias. Only serves to make your bias that much stronger, leading to more twisting of facts and selective viewing of events.

 

And on and on.

 

Besides, 75% of the "fans" who are currently moaning and bitching (and blaming Rafa for everything) will be only too happy to kiss his arse if he wins the title come May. So even if he DID pick a fight with a section of the "support", don't be so sure that "he can't possibly win".

 

He absolutely could. The fickleness, short-sightedness and convenience-driven hypocrisy which drives much of this "anti-Rafa" bandwagon are exactly the same reasons why most on that bandwagon would be only too happy to jump off it, right into Rafa's lap, come the end of the season.

 

I know quite a few reds who were at the Wigan game and go every home and most of the aways that were kicking off when he subbed Gerrard. Can you claim to be a better fan than them?

 

I'm not fickle either. I support him on match day but how can anyone have sat through most of our home games and not have a few doubts? I wonder how many of the people who say you have to give unquestioning support to Rafa actually stick their hands in their pockets and go the game.

 

I dont give a sht about fitness stats. No one could convince me 5 minutes would make that much difference. If he was worried about Gerrard getting injured through fatigue surely he would have taken him off earlier.

 

 

And whether he was talking about the fans or the media i dont want our manager to try and use our best player getting injured as a opportunity to prove a mute point from weeks ago.