Chris Bascombe

[G Richards]

That's similar to how I feel. I do recognise that the removal of the owners is a more pressing matter and that Rafa's situation needs to be addressed at the end of the season once that's been done, if indeed that's to be the case.

 

As you say, if G+H are still here in the summer then Rafa has no chance. If we finish fourth and acquire new owners and are given a big budget, then I wouldn't be totally against the idea of giving Rafa his last chance.

 

Having said that, I would also be a bit uncomfortable, because although i'd back Rafa to purchase good quality players with top dollar, i'd still remain unconvinced that he'd use those players in what I personally perceive to be the correct manner.

 

So far, there's been little evidence to suggest that Rafa would stick with a settled side and allow the team the opportunity to gel together and build strong relationships and partnerships all over the field, which are undoubtedly required in any title-winning side.

 

It's a very confusing time indeed.

 

I share those doubts too. But I think if we get to this point, Rafa deserves the benefit of any doubt, for various reasons.

[Stu Monty]

Stu, you keep misrepresenting the opposing view to yours (or certainly my version of it). No-one is expecting the league title. I just expect a genuine challenge. We have gone from following Istanbul up with the FA Cup and 82 points (one point off second and the two games against Chelsea off the title) with nothing but an inexorable decline. Why have we gone backwards from there? It's certainly got nothing to do with our performances against the biggest spenders as we've been entirely consistent against them in the league: we almost never win.

 

Rafa's first two seasons were fantastic in my view, but his third and fourth have been ever worse. People have reacted to some of my posts recently as if I've suddenly plucked an opinion out of mid-air. However, I was critical of Kuyt and Pennant, and the demotion of Crouch last season. Furthermore I have also been underwhelmed by almost every piece of transfer business done since that 82 point finish. Rafa has simply replaced mediocre players with more of the same and all in the name of options. This was happening long before the arrival of the cunts who are literally killing our club.

 

You seem to be taking an almost perverse pride in supporting the status quo (ownership excepted) these days mate. I know and genuinely respect your values-driven approach to being a Red. However, I've never understood your championing of Dirk, for example. You are absolutely right to laud his character (and I really do admire your steadfastness in doing so), but his football is indefensible for a club like Liverpool. Likewise your statement here:

 

 

How can you possibly believe we'll ever be able to catch up with clubs who are already miles ahead of us by waiting around for a new stadium? The only way is for Rafa to reveal a Wenger-like knack for developing young and relatively cheap players that he's hitherto kept hidden throughout his career. By the time a stadium is built, we'll be even further down the pecking order following the pattern of the last two seasons, with the further complication of key players entering the latter phases of their careers.

 

Realism is a term you keep referring to, but it strikes me that you are not being realistic about the modern game: it is based entirely upon money. We either accept that and go for it, or we pack up and concede defeat. I don't understand this sudden distaste for Mammon anyway. Anyone would think we'd never led the shirt sponsorship charge or consistently broken transfer records for all those years.

 

What are we as a club if we're not about winning? Yes we have a way of winning - The Liverpool Way - but it was always about winning, just the same. Our greats, both on and off the pitch were obsessed by it, and we should be too. The day we concede our ambitions is the day The Liverpool Way truly dies, in my opinion.

 

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about Rafa as there is so much to respect, thank and admire the man for. However, the pattern of the last two years shows no sign of abating. Indeed it looks to be getting worse. How can it do otherwise if he's lost the players? And no-one seems to be addressing my assertion that this process was already in motion pre-Twats. Yes, the cunts have accelerated the process, but the bewildered, lack-lustre performances were there for all to see last season, too.

 

Stu, I ask you this - how can Rafa fight his way back from here? In my opinion, the only way is for him to lay himself open to the players and say, "Tell me how to turn it round". That will also then have to be followed by a rapid change in ownership to new "custodians" who continue to back him. I don't see either scenario happening and it makes me fucking sick to say so.

 

In short, for the first time in all my years as a Red, I haven't got a broadly optimistic outlook. These are sad, sad days and it's fucking horrible to bear witness to them.

 

He can't fight his way back. The people above him have cut him down at the legs and the people who he took to Istanbul have decided he should leave. I don't see a way back.

 

I also don't think I'm misrepresenting anything, because I don't see the difference between a challenge and winning the title (if you are putting a challenge in for the title then you are the bounce of a ball and the blow of a whistle away from winning it).

 

I can see why you might say I'm taking perverse pleasure in holding the stance I am but it is something that has been turning in me for a while. I'm finding it harder and harder to stay in love with football. I'm holding onto the hope that the club I support can still be something worth getting behind and something worth enjoying (and not just some snide game toyed about with by billionaires, which it angers me to watch sometimes). I'll try to address your points properly tomorrow, I'm tight for time you see.

 

Cheers for the complimentary comments too, it's nice to know that someone else is aware of how sexy I am.

[Brownie]

I share those doubts too. But I think if we get to this point, Rafa deserves the benefit of any doubt, for various reasons.

 

Possibly, although it's risky business allowing a manager to spend £50M on players if you're not 100% convinced that he'll do so wisely.

 

Anyway chaps, that's it for me tonight, i've been playing football myself this evening and i'm cream crackered. It's been enjoyable debate in this thread and a bit of a return to form for the FF.

[Anny Road]

Totally hypothetical situation, and very FM08, but just hear me out.

 

Let's just presume that Ronaldo doesn't play for the Mancs and he's up for grabs to buy in the summer of 2007. Rafa buys him for £22M (I know he's priceless now but he did cost £12M at the time) and forgets about Lucas and Babel, as well as using the 'Heinze cash'.

 

Ronaldo is an instant hit and has 15 goals in the league up until now, along with Gerrard and Torres' goals. We're challenging for the league and playing with confidence, and Benayoun and Pennant are just there for back-up.

 

We may not have Lucas and Babel there with the potential to progress, but we are competing at the top and can look to players for the future once the here and now is sorted.

 

That's pretty much what the Mancs did - they won the league with a small squad of highly talented players, and then strengthened with young players for the future after the here and now had been taken care of.

 

Again, I know it's not that simple, but that's a glimpse into my thinking if you like.

 

Rafa would never take that chance. Broken toe or snapped hamstring and were in 10th. You maybe correct but Rafa aint going to become the gambling type anytime soon.

[Hermes]

Have they progressed? They are doing what they normally do, and so are we, which is not progressing

 

 

:whistle:

[coop]

Totally hypothetical situation, and very FM08, but just hear me out.

 

Let's just presume that Ronaldo doesn't play for the Mancs and he's up for grabs to buy in the summer of 2007. Rafa buys him for £22M (I know he's priceless now but he did cost £12M at the time) and forgets about Lucas and Babel, as well as using the 'Heinze cash'.

 

Ronaldo is an instant hit and has 15 goals in the league up until now, along with Gerrard and Torres' goals. We're challenging for the league and playing with confidence, and Benayoun and Pennant are just there for back-up.

 

We may not have Lucas and Babel there with the potential to progress, but we are competing at the top and can look to players for the future once the here and now is sorted.

 

That's pretty much what the Mancs did - they won the league with a small squad of highly talented players, and then strengthened with young players for the future after the here and now had been taken care of.

 

Again, I know it's not that simple, but that's a glimpse into my thinking if you like.

 

 

Can see where your coming from Brownie mate but what if the player we had spent all the cash on then went and got injured. We have no-one of the same class to take his place and we have signed no-one else cos we spunked the cash on one player.

 

Just look at the moment how many players we need.

 

Two attacking full backs, at least one new top class winger and one new striker.

 

We could possibly try Insua as the attacking full back but we need proven quality there so personally we are going to be looking at between £60-80 million for that lot and can you really see Rafa been given that sort of cash.

[Moschops II]

:whistle:

 

25th December 2007, 11:02 PM

Hermes

Forumite

 

What does that have to do with the owners? The yanks have been slagged off on here for weeks for what the papers say they are going to do and 95% of people on here here have swallowed it hook, line and sinker. So far they have not done any of it.

 

Gullible? you betcha.

 

3rd January 2008, 01:34 PM

Hermes

Forumite

 

Re: What do you want?

Far too early to judge the owners, 10 months and one transfer window.

 

6th January 2008, 01:33 AM

Hermes

Forumite

 

Re: RAFFA EXPECTS TO GET SACKED?

 

Let's see Rafa deny this, the yanks got enough stick for failing to respond to media speculation.

 

I'm not holding my breath, he's desperately begging for somebody to save his arse and doing it via "a close friend".

 

:whistle:

[isr]

No, it's because of our lack of it. We are stagnating while those clubs who were below us are progressing to catch us up.

 

If we were 10 points behind 3rd but 10 points ahead of 4th we could say we are progressing. It isn't the case.

 

Did I miss something, or do they hand out the trophies, CL places and other assorted goodies now after 24 games? I'm sure I read somewhere that the league season lasts for 38 games.

 

Ahh, it all makes sense now. No wonder ManUre were busting a gut and getting their whole team booked against Spurs. They knew the league title was gone, lost, over if they didnt win that game.

[Dunney Boy]

You know what? Fuck this shit. I've fucking had it. Gloves are off now.

 

We have a manager with a proven record of WINNING big trophies. 2 La Ligas, 1 European Cup, 1 UEFA Cup, and 1 FA Cup - all in the last 6 years.

 

We have a manager who is hailed by many, and rightly so, as being a tactical genius.

 

This is a guy who has turned Liverpool around into being a force, a real genuine honest to fucking goodness force in Europe. Are we nervous ahead of the Inter tie? Yes. You can also bet your bottom dollar that Inter are shitting a brick at having to play Benitez in a 2 leg Euro tie.

 

I would kindly like to remind you that, despite our history, we have been - for the best part of 15 years (with the honourable exception of 01) - plainly average. How the FUCK have so many Liverpool supporters developed amnesia? Something in the half time beer?

 

THE ONLY FUCKING REASON WE ARE JUMPING UP AND DOWN AT THE START OF THE SEASON, THINKING WE HAVE A CHANCE OF THE LEAGUE, IS BECAUSE RAFA BENITEZ TURNED LIVERPOOL FROM A DISTINCTLY AVERAGE TEAM, TO EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS - AND RUNNERS UP, IN THREE YEARS.

 

So we're not going to win the League this year. Well, get fucking over it. With all the shit Rafa has had to deal with behind the scenes - ON HIS FUCKING OWN BY THE LOOKS OF IT - its not surprising.

 

I'm not one of the "Gerrard is a cunt" brigade. But honestly, if Stevie, or Carra for that matter, think that THEY know better how to get no.19 to Anfield this season, then I'm sorry - they sound about as clueless about footie as Lawro, Redknapp, and many other ex-players.

 

Rafa is the manager. He is not God. He makes mistakes. Whisper it quietly, but Shanks made mistakes too. Fuck it, Bob Paisley misjudged how quickly he needed to rebuild the late 70s side - so we fell from double champions in 79 and 80, to 5th in 81. And in 82, we were lagging far behind by Christmas.

 

But you know what. Bob knew he had misjudged it in 81. He fixed it. We snagged the League in 82, with a great comeback.

 

Because Bob was a top manager.

 

And so is Rafa. If Steve G, Carra, or anyone suddenly thinks that someone who could drag an average Liverpool to Champions League finals year after year is not - THEN THEY'RE WRONG. We are NOT going back to the Spice Boys days. The manager is the boss. The players shut the fuck up and play. The rest of us get behind the manager, and support the team.

 

Thems the rules. Follow them, or fuck off.

 

 

I've been reading this thread from the start and have only just got to Saturday night. This is probably old hat by now but I'm compelled to big up the above.

 

That's a shit hot post right there. It's probably the best thing I've read on this entire forum and sums up my sentiments perfectly.

 

Well in.

[DJLJ]

wohoo, 1000 it is, my job here is done...

 

 

Uhmmmm, why does it display 1000 besides the permalink thing, but 999 posts on the ff page?

[zico]

did I say the £20m players were ordinary? Although I'm far from certain about the merits of Mascherano, but that's another subject. Read my post. I said the £7m here, £6m there ... Pennant, Benayoun, Gonzalez, Zenden, Voronin, Crouch, Kuyt, diao, cheyrou, biscan, diouf (althogh far from cheap) and on and on. And it's not just rafa, it's before him with Houllier, this is my point, it's been a club strategy to change a large part of the playing staff almost every season since for about 10 years - a load of mediocre out and a load of mediocre in. The only real value we have had out of those types of signings over the 10 years have been sami, agger and sissoko - and perhaps arbeloa - and when I say value as my point earlier said, it's not just the transfer fee, it's the overall package. Harry Kewell for instance has cost us a whole lot more than the £5m we paid for him.

 

We currently have 4 strikers on the club book. 3 of them could be out in the summer. We sold 2 strikers last summer. Less shite, more £20m is what I'm saying. Instead of 2 ordinary players for every position, why not 1 quality and for instance somewhere where a versitile player can normally fill in, have a back up of a young kid coming through. Imo our squad is bloated with overpaid nobodies who's acceptance of being happy to play 30-odd games a season in a 60 match season says everything you need to know about them.[/QUOTE]

 

 

You might be on to something here.....

[Paul]

I know it wasn't your intention to be disrespectful, you never are.

 

It's just that the discussions we're having these days are loaded with feelings, so when you degrade (again; I know that's not your intention, I simply state that that's how it felt when I read it) an opinion by calling it perverse, I just felt it as an unjust. It sounded like we have the opinion just for the sake of it. Forget it though, it's like I said to Dave (Dirk) earlier today; I'm jumping a bit to easy these days, probably because for the importance of the discussions we're having. My bad.

 

Perverse means strange or self-defeating in this context; it is not an insult. Did you think I meant perverted? I know he's a ginger but he's not that weird.

 

Don't all the benefits of replacing the Manager seem very short term to you, then?

 

My worry is that we'll miss out on qualifying for the CL next season and in the current climate, that is the most pressing issue, in my opinion. If we're stuck with these two at the helm and are £20m lighter financially then we're in the position of having to sell to stay afloat. So, for example, we might have to sell Crouch and Alonso but not be able to replace them. That is a very real possibility if we miss out on Europe. Then you can easily fall into a vicious downward spiral of becoming a weaker squad with a reputation for having to sell to keep going. That spells disaster for me.

 

However, I don't think Rafa will be replaced before the end of the season and we therefore need to see how he does. If he achieves fourth and new owners come in, I'd be happy to see what he could do with decent money - despite my doubts about his transfer policy. However, if new owners opted for a new manager, I could understand why they would do so. If he is to achieve fourth though, he's got some serious bridge building to do withing the squad - and not just with the two players everyone seems to have singled out.

[zico]

Could it just be that there was no game changing winger available at the right price

 

He went after Malouda, it didn't happen, priorities changed and in came Babel and Yossi

 

Presumably, this is where Quaresma gets a mention. Maybe Rafa's like a lot on here who think he's vastly overrated.

 

Whatever - because Riise, Benayoun, Pennant, Leto, Kewell and Babel are all world class performing in every game.......?

 

If Rafa can't see the problems we have out wide he is about as blind and stubborn as he shows week in week out by insisting on playing Kuyt up front.......

 

Riise is shit, Benayoun not a winger and a squad player, Pennant a good squad player no more, Leto did not take his chance and seems to have been written off, Kewell is past it and Babel is a forward(Though I guess he could be an option for the wing in a 4-3-3 formation).

 

World class wingers is about as needed at LFC as new owners - FACT.... And we'll never win the league until they are here......

[Brownie]

:whistle:

 

Eh?

 

I said they are doing what they normally do (win games and challenge) and we are doing what we normally do (struggle to compete) so ergo we're not impressing.

 

You knew what I meant though you pedant!

[Brownie]

Can see where your coming from Brownie mate but what if the player we had spent all the cash on then went and got injured. We have no-one of the same class to take his place and we have signed no-one else cos we spunked the cash on one player.

 

Just look at the moment how many players we need.

 

Two attacking full backs, at least one new top class winger and one new striker.

 

We could possibly try Insua as the attacking full back but we need proven quality there so personally we are going to be looking at between £60-80 million for that lot and can you really see Rafa been given that sort of cash.

 

It's a risk, but IMO it's better than having two 'average' players in comparison.

 

Totally hypothetical though, as I said.

[redrosetints]

"When are people going to face facts and recognise that we're going backwards? We've had two fourth place finishes in two seasons now, and we needed Spurs to get mass food poisoning to even qualify for the CL last year. We've blown £12 million we can't afford on Theo Walcott while letting homegrown talent like Bentley go for peanuts, and our best chance of a goal is that gangly freak Adebayor. We'll always remember the doubles, but the reality is he needs to go – otherwise we're just accepting mediocrity."

 

LOL, quality post Mosser.

 

Great thread, this, shows how you can debate something without it getting OTT. Paul and Kops posts were fantastic, both well thought out and passionate. Both show the person has thougt through their ideas on a way forward and presented them, no bitching etc. Its only natural that strong minded people are going to be firmly entrenched in some views, as they will have taken the time to contemplate their own solutions which will lead them to their outcome and thats what this place is all about, good stuff. Perhaps the thread should be shortened to three posts, Pauls' piece , Kops' piece with Mossers ditty above for some perspective.

[kop]

Perverse means strange or self-defeating in this context; it is not an insult. Did you think I meant perverted? I know he's a ginger but he's not that weird.

 

 

Hehe, no I know what perverse means Paul. I still don't think it's self-defeating or strange or even obstinate to have the views we have. You never adressed me with your comment though, so my defence of it it might be a bit perverse.

 

I still love you though so I will leave it now (I would've inserted a smiley here if it weren't you I replied to).

[Paul]

Hehe, no I know what perverse means Paul. I still don't think it's self-defeating or strange or even obstinate to have the views we have. You never adressed me with your comment though, so my defence of it it might be a bit perverse.

 

I still love you though so I will leave it now (I would've inserted a smiley here if it weren't you I replied to).

 

Firstly Knut, I'm not aware of you having the same view that I perceive Stu to have. Admittedly I don't read every post on the forum anymore, but there are quite a few forumites I never miss and you two are in that group.

 

Secondly, what I perceive Stu to be saying (and I recognise that I may have misunderstood) is that the way you do things is more important than actually winning. In my opinion that is self-defeating. I believe that the way you do things is just as important as winning, but not more so; winning with class is what The Liverpool Way has always been about to me.

[hamstrung]

Whatever - because Riise, Benayoun, Pennant, Leto, Kewell and Babel are all world class performing in every game.......?

 

If Rafa can't see the problems we have out wide he is about as blind and stubborn as he shows week in week out by insisting on playing Kuyt up front.......

 

Riise is shit, Benayoun not a winger and a squad player, Pennant a good squad player no more, Leto did not take his chance and seems to have been written off, Kewell is past it and Babel is a forward(Though I guess he could be an option for the wing in a 4-3-3 formation).

 

World class wingers is about as needed at LFC as new owners - FACT.... And we'll never win the league until they are here......

 

What has any of that got to do with him perhaps not rating Quaresma, which was the point I was making.

 

Would you like me to tell you?

 

Nothing.

[theRedHorse]

My worry is that we'll miss out on qualifying for the CL next season and in the current climate, that is the most pressing issue, in my opinion. If we're stuck with these two at the helm and are £20m lighter financially then we're in the position of having to sell to stay afloat. So, for example, we might have to sell Crouch and Alonso but not be able to replace them. That is a very real possibility if we miss out on Europe. Then you can easily fall into a vicious downward spiral of becoming a weaker squad with a reputation for having to sell to keep going. That spells disaster for me.

 

Maybe thats where the difference is. I have absoloutely no doubt that we will finish 4th this year.

 

Your "prediction" of events although likely if we don't finish 4th (or win the CL)- stem from the not so likely event that we don't finish 4th.

 

However, I don't think Rafa will be replaced before the end of the season and we therefore need to see how he does. If he achieves fourth and new owners come in, I'd be happy to see what he could do with decent money - despite my doubts about his transfer policy. However, if new owners opted for a new manager, I could understand why they would do so. If he is to achieve fourth though, he's got some serious bridge building to do withing the squad - and not just with the two players everyone seems to have singled out.

 

He will achieve 4th, and hopefully new owners will come in and back him for atleast a year.

 

I know why you think he should be "bridge building" but i really don't think the manager should have to go to the players, begging them to show some passion for the shirt...

 

After the west ham game(?) kewell was totally ripped apart for having no bottle, and Barret suggested there were a few others who just weren't playing for the shirt. The reason people are picking on Carra and Stevie at the moment is

1) They shouldn't need encouragement to play for LFC and they should be the ones G-ing up the rest of the squad

and

2) Bascombe doesn't write these things off the top of his head IMHO and I'm sure alot of people agree its not a coincidence that he's the one writing these things in his match report when he's one of the few journalists in close-contact with those 2 players.

 

I honestly believe Liverpool fans are being stingy with the amount of patience they're showing Rafa. In the Houlliers last season, not in your wildest dreams did we imagine winning no5 12 months later.

And Rafa WILL learn how to dominate this league-

 

Back the Manager and it will come...

[redrosetints]

Totally hypothetical situation, and very FM08, but just hear me out.

 

Let's just presume that Ronaldo doesn't play for the Mancs and he's up for grabs to buy in the summer of 2007. Rafa buys him for £22M (I know he's priceless now but he did cost £12M at the time) and forgets about Lucas and Babel, as well as using the 'Heinze cash'.

 

Ronaldo is an instant hit and has 15 goals in the league up until now, along with Gerrard and Torres' goals. We're challenging for the league and playing with confidence, and Benayoun and Pennant are just there for back-up.

 

We may not have Lucas and Babel there with the potential to progress, but we are competing at the top and can look to players for the future once the here and now is sorted.

 

That's pretty much what the Mancs did - they won the league with a small squad of highly talented players, and then strengthened with young players for the future after the here and now had been taken care of.

 

Again, I know it's not that simple, but that's a glimpse into my thinking if you like.

 

But Ronaldo wouldnt cost 22 mill, more like 40 milllion. Plus Ronaldo was just like Babbel when he arrived here, an upproven 12m pound signing, thats the problem. UNitd can afford to pay 12m (or in the case of Veron 28m) and watch him cock up and/or take time to bed, as they have a squad that is already winning , we cant as we expect an instant return on our investment. this puts pressure on both manager and player.

 

However i think your right to say we need some impact players, rather than more potential as we have a very very young squad. I think one of the missing ingredients is leadership on the field, Gerrard is not a leader in the sense we need him, for every dynamic drag us back, there is a hands on hips shake ofthe head and moan. I think a few Gary mac signings could turnus around and hopefully the talk about Aimar is indicative of a change in policy.

[spider-neil]

Whatever - because Riise, Benayoun, Pennant, Leto, Kewell and Babel are all world class performing in every game.......?

 

If Rafa can't see the problems we have out wide he is about as blind and stubborn as he shows week in week out by insisting on playing Kuyt up front.......

 

Riise is shit, Benayoun not a winger and a squad player, Pennant a good squad player no more, Leto did not take his chance and seems to have been written off, Kewell is past it and Babel is a forward(Though I guess he could be an option for the wing in a 4-3-3 formation).

 

World class wingers is about as needed at LFC as new owners - FACT.... And we'll never win the league until they are here......

 

I think even world class will struggle here unless there is a marked change in mentality, I don't think ronaldo (for example) would be anywhere near as effective for us as he is for manu.

 

I will also add I think torres will get less and less effective until we change our mentality as defenses will gamble on putting more men on him safe in the knowledge the rest of attacking talent will fail to hurt them.

 

mentality more than personnel is holding us back (imho).

[Rashid]

Rather than spend the money we did lats season... I think if we paid £20M for Torres, paid the £20M they wanted for Quaresma and left the rest alone we would still be in the same position if not better. Did we really need Lucas, Babel and Benayoun? I am not so sure. Their positions could have been covered by youth team players, you know the ones who have won the Youth cup twice in the last 2 years.

[kop]

Firstly Knut, I'm not aware of you having the same view that I perceive Stu to have. Admittedly I don't read every post on the forum anymore, but there are quite a few forumites I never miss and you two are in that group.

 

Secondly, what I perceive Stu to be saying (and I recognise that I may have misunderstood) is that the way you do things is more important than actually winning. In my opinion that is self-defeating. I believe that the way you do things is just as important as winning, but not more so; winning with class is what The Liverpool Way has always been about to me.

 

Fair enough Paul, I always suspected myself to put too much into your comment. Stu himself has no problem with it so I apologize for making a number out of it.

 

I too want to win with class, and that's how we used to do it. But when we're not winning on the pitch we have to show class off it. That's something we don't show these days, when we have a Rafa-players-owners mixed fight that leaves us no credit. This is where I think we should show some class now, and that is how we will get back to our winning ways on the pitch again. I'm not saying you don't show class Paul, just to make that clear. I'm thinking of all ongoings these days, and the sum of those are at times classless. This is very dangerous for us and our inheritance. The way to show class now is to assemble everyone, Rafa, the players, the fans and the owners, and start pulling in the same direction again. The way we're pulling in 3-4 directions now leaves us where we are at best.

[Lapskaus]

But Ronaldo wouldnt cost 22 mill, more like 40 milllion. Plus Ronaldo was just like Babbel when he arrived here, an upproven 12m pound signing, thats the problem. UNitd can afford to pay 12m (or in the case of Veron 28m) and watch him cock up and/or take time to bed, as they have a squad that is already winning , we cant as we expect an instant return on our investment. this puts pressure on both manager and player.

 

However i think your right to say we need some impact players, rather than more potential as we have a very very young squad. I think one of the missing ingredients is leadership on the field, Gerrard is not a leader in the sense we need him, for every dynamic drag us back, there is a hands on hips shake ofthe head and moan. I think a few Gary mac signings could turnus around and hopefully the talk about Aimar is indicative of a change in policy.

 

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