Our midfield

[HBenn]

17 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

We won't sign anybody. The weakness is glaring Klopp has to answer the question all the time because its so obviously a weak point in our side. Just because we have the numbers it doesn't make them valid options for a side that wants to win a league where you need to be near perfect to do so. It's a bit de ja vu a point were nearly all fans say we need to address this but the club has already made up its mind and it bites us on the arse. Hes stubborn Klopp though and very loyal you can't really knock that when it's his loyalty that goes towards making him great as a manager and as a man.

 

I'm just glad spurs tried to go for Diaz last January because without the boost he gave us I think it would of been a less exciting run at the end of the season. I think there's a good chance the midfield this season will be a copy of our defensive issues a couple of seasons ago. Our options are too injury prone and this is a really hectic season. Obviously this is a glass half empty view, we could after this patch suffer no injuries but still I think we need more from our midfield.

 

Spurs and Arsenal have been ambitious addressing their weakness its a real push to compete, we have been so good the push we need is only a point or two that makes the difference to being champions or also rans, the issue we face is falling behind our own standards. I've said it before we haven't improved the team this season, Mane is a huge loss, Nunez is potential I don't think it's quite like for like yet. Ramsey not a signing for now, carvalho looks great not sure of his position though and how we will utilise him, I thought we may go 4231. I'd like us to be tactically flexible enough that against teams who can do us real damage we don't need Trent to be permanently out of position, it's becoming a proper achillies heal one we don't seem to care about fixing. So easy to spew hyperbole after a bad game because we are generally brilliant. Losing the league by one point and the champions league by one goal was just a kick to the bollokcs, the parade was a good ointment but they still ache.

 

Creating chances seems to be tough, the finals we played we were completely toothless, yesterday we only had 3 shots on target fortunately scored 2. That champions league final burns still though as I genuinely think Madrid were shit, that long season caught up with us, its a massive advantage how la liga facilitate their teams in Europe. I want to see us do something different that Klopp and Ljinders have hinted at. Ljinders said we need change so we are not predictable I don't know if this is further down the line.

I agree with all of this.

 

The Diaz signing was really interesting as an example. Publically Klopp was insisting we didnt need anyone but privately Klopp and Lijnders  - based on his comments in the book - were pleading with the owners and Ward for 6 weeks to try and do a deal in Jan. How do we know that isn't the case now?

 

I am sorry I don't buy the line Klopp is happy with his options or that there aren't players that can improve our options. I keep coming back to the two guys who come across a lion and one puts his running trainers on and says to the other, I don't need to outrun the lion I need to outrun you. Could our first choice 3 be improved, arguably not, but can the backup options be improved, for me definetly.

I do buy the line that maybe who Klopp wants isn't available but I don't buy the backup options cannot be improved. Take Naby. I was amazed when Lijnders said in his book that Thiago couldn't feel his feet in the moments ahead of the final and yet Naby still didn't get the nod. How can you rave about a player and not play him when a footballer cannot feel his bloody feet???

The only partial positive about yesterday for me is that Thiago broke down now and not in 1 months time when it would be too late. Also, reading James Pearce's article this morning there was a potential hint that maybe Naby won't renew. If so, I definetly feel we need at least 2 over this summer and next, especially as they were saying that Hendo was also feeling his calf yesterday.

 

 

[joe_fishfish]

2 minutes ago, HBenn said:

I agree with all of this.

 

The Diaz signing was really interesting as an example. Publically Klopp was insisting we didnt need anyone but privately Klopp and Lijnders  - based on his comments in the book - were pleading with the owners and Ward for 6 weeks to try and do a deal in Jan. How do we know that isn't the case now?

 

I am sorry I don't buy the line Klopp is happy with his options or that there aren't players that can improve our options. I keep coming back to the two guys who come across a lion and one puts his running trainers on and says to the other, I don't need to outrun the lion I need to outrun you. Could our first choice 3 be improved, arguably not, but can the backup options be improved, for me definetly.

I do buy the line that maybe who Klopp wants isn't available but I don't buy the backup options cannot be improved. Take Naby. I was amazed when Lijnders said in his book that Thiago couldn't feel his feet in the moments ahead of the final and yet Naby still didn't get the nod. How can you rave about a player and not play him when a footballer cannot feel his bloody feet???

The only partial positive about yesterday for me is that Thiago broke down now and not in 1 months time when it would be too late. Also, reading James Pearce's article this morning there was a potential hint that maybe Naby won't renew. If so, I definetly feel we need at least 2 over this summer and next, especially as they were saying that Hendo was also feeling his calf yesterday.

 

 

Thiago's numbness had gone down by the time of the delayed kick off, that's why he played. If it had been on time Naby would have started.

[joe_fishfish]

As much as I think Hendo is a problem these days, and I definitely would not have extended his contract after the Euros, Fabinho was fucking dreadful yesterday. Lazy passes, slow into the tackle, didn't do any of the things that make him so effective usually. Less of that please.

 

Milner was our best midfielder by some distance yesterday, and basically all he did in possession was protect the ball, make simple passes, and move into space. It shouldn't be as hard as some of our players make it look.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

If refs are going to allow more physicality then our midfield aren't prepared for that.  That was why Milner looked so good yesterday, he is hewn from stone. 

I think it changes the idea that our biggest midfield problem is a quality deficit, I think it's now a physicality deficit, and Bellingham ticks both those boxes.

 

I think we may see a bit more of Bajetic and Milner than we thought. 

[Daisy]

FSG are cunts

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

9 minutes ago, Daisy said:

FSG are cunts

A good post in full.

[Moo]

1 hour ago, Leyton388 said:

 

It makes you wonder just where the money the club earns is going as every other club appears to be able to have a transfer budget. 

Wages, apparently.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

35 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

If refs are going to allow more physicality then our midfield aren't prepared for that.  That was why Milner looked so good yesterday, he is hewn from stone. 

I think it changes the idea that our biggest midfield problem is a quality deficit, I think it's now a physicality deficit, and Bellingham ticks both those boxes.

 

I think we may see a bit more of Bajetic and Milner than we thought. 

This is a good point. More physicality is being allowed now, it started last season. Instructions from the broadcasters to improve the product probably.

 

Anyway that’s the way it is, and it definately isn’t in our favour. Only Fabinho of our regulars is really fully suited for that. Thiago is mentally suited for it, but not physically. Henderson the other way around, he’s physically suited for it but avoids physical challenges completely. Keita a bit of both, he’s not quite there physically nor mentally it seems. Mainly it’s a mental thing I would say. N’golo Kante isn’t exactly a big strong bastard but will win far more than his fair share of duels. Same to a certain degree goes for Bernardo Silva. You need a bit of both, mentality and physicality, and first and foremost the mentality needs to be right. It wasn’t yesterday. Will we see Milner from the start against Palace?

[Red74]

If we were prepared to pay big money for Tchouameani (sp) then he must have wanted the midfield strengthening with someone going straight into the 1st team so can’t understand why he’s saying we don’t need anyone for that position now. 
 

 

[Moo]

3 minutes ago, Red74 said:

If we were prepared to pay big money for Tchouameani (sp) then he must have wanted the midfield strengthening with someone going straight into the 1st team so can’t understand why he’s saying we don’t need anyone for that position now. 
 

 

I would imagine he feels it's better than saying there's no money left.  What he's saying doesn't reflect on the ownership and more importantly doesn't reflect badly on the players in the squad who he needs to work with for the next year.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

18 minutes ago, Red74 said:

If we were prepared to pay big money for Tchouameani (sp) then he must have wanted the midfield strengthening with someone going straight into the 1st team so can’t understand why he’s saying we don’t need anyone for that position now. 
 

 

Exactly this. 

It's no coincidence we also bought a big bastard up front. 

 

 

At this rate I wouldn't be surprised to see Nat Phillips start against the likes of Mitrovic. 

[joe_fishfish]

1 hour ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Exactly this. 

It's no coincidence we also bought a big bastard up front. 

 

 

At this rate I wouldn't be surprised to see Nat Phillips start against the likes of Mitrovic. 

Phillips might have been a good option yesterday. Matip was shite. But if Matip doesn't look match fit after preseason, and he definitely doesn't, Phillips will be miles off. He had even fewer minutes than Matip did.

[J-V]

3 hours ago, Moo said:

Wages, apparently.

We could save £180k a week by fucking Firmino off.  We keep players around who offer fuck all far to long then wonder why they’re shit when they get a game and we’ve no money to get any other replacements in.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

We have a trifecta of issues affecting our midfield, all of which compound upon each other to make the notion of going into this season without a reinforcement tantamount to self-sabotage. We are effectively throwing the season away if we don’t strengthen, it’s as simple as that. 
 

Availability: this goes without saying. Thiago, Naby, Ox, Hendo are perennially injured, guaranteed to miss 60% of games. Even Jones has a recent history of notable layoffs. Harvey is returning from a once career ending injury. Even Flako is prone to missing 5 games a year. Milner is our only Salah-esque reliable midfielder. 
 

Athletecism/Fitness: our midfielders are either old as fuck or just not athletic in nature, which lends them to be sub-par for a team that is fucking built on pressing. Fab looks like he’s running through treacle every other game due to being overused. Hendo is playing the 1 second slower than everyone else. Naby is too weak and passive. Elliot is more effective on the ball. Jones is a decent presser. Thiago and Ox are our best pressers but the latter is unfortunately shite. 
 

Quality: this is the issue that seems to keep being overlooked. I’m sick of hearing Jurgen talk about numbers. Even if we cloned all of our fucking midfielders and had 2 versions of each, we still wouldn’t have enough midfielders, because they are just not good enough. Hendo is terrible as an 8 as he just does not have the technical attributes or creativity to do anything for us (he is an okay 6 cover, which is what his role should be now). Ox is shite. Naby is just not good enough. Jones needs a loan but as things stand, isn’t good enough. Milner is a decent squad option only. The only midfielders we have with quality are Fab, Thiago and Elliot, and the last of those is young and needs time. 
 

Yesterday we started 6 players over 30, the first time we’ve done that since 1994 (and then brought on another who was 36). We are hoping that Jones, Elliot and Carvalho develop into our next generation but we cannot afford them the game time mistakes they need for their development. We aren’t Liverpool of 2017. We need to be in the market for 2 midfielders, and if those youngsters are going to make it, then they will have to do so by competing with the best in class.

 

Jurgen and Pep are too smart to not see all of this. It’s obvious that FSG / Ward are just not sanctioning the funds required unless we lose a body, which is a fucking joke if the case. 

[3 Stacks]

16 minutes ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

We have a trifecta of issues affecting our midfield, all of which compound upon each other to make the notion of going into this season without a reinforcement tantamount to self-sabotage. We are effectively throwing the season away if we don’t strengthen, it’s as simple as that. 
 

Availability: this goes without saying. Thiago, Naby, Ox, Hendo are perennially injured, guaranteed to miss 60% of games. Even Jones has a recent history of notable layoffs. Harvey is returning from a once career ending injury. Even Flako is prone to missing 5 games a year. Milner is our only Salah-esque reliable midfielder. 
 

Athletecism/Fitness: our midfielders are either old as fuck or just not athletic in nature, which lends them to be sub-par for a team that is fucking built on pressing. Fab looks like he’s running through treacle every other game due to being overused. Hendo is playing the 1 second slower than everyone else. Naby is too weak and passive. Elliot is more effective on the ball. Jones is a decent presser. Thiago and Ox are our best pressers but the latter is unfortunately shite. 
 

Quality: this is the issue that seems to keep being overlooked. I’m sick of hearing Jurgen talk about numbers. Even if we cloned all of our fucking midfielders and had 2 versions of each, we still wouldn’t have enough midfielders, because they are just not good enough. Hendo is terrible as an 8 as he just does not have the technical attributes or creativity to do anything for us (he is an okay 6 cover, which is what his role should be now). Ox is shite. Naby is just not good enough. Jones needs a loan but as things stand, isn’t good enough. Milner is a decent squad option only. The only midfielders we have with quality are Fab, Thiago and Elliot, and the last of those is young and needs time. 
 

Yesterday we started 6 players over 30, the first time we’ve done that since 1994 (and then brought on another who was 36). We are hoping that Jones, Elliot and Carvalho develop into our next generation but we cannot afford them the game time mistakes they need for their development. We aren’t Liverpool of 2017. We need to be in the market for 2 midfielders, and if those youngsters are going to make it, then they will have to do so by competing with the best in class.

 

Jurgen and Pep are too smart to not see all of this. It’s obvious that FSG / Ward are just not sanctioning the funds required unless we lose a body, which is a fucking joke if the case. 

Haha. So, it's obvious, but it's a joke "if it's the case"? Which is it? Is it obvious or is it a maybe?

 

The fact is; we keep pushing the midfield off. It isn't the case that there were never funds available for the last 2 summers. If the midfielder we wanted was available, we'd find a way to buy him, just like we found a way to spend money during Covid by structuring deals. 

 

I think the injuries right now could give us an impetus to finally force something. Hope so, at least. 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

1 hour ago, joe_fishfish said:

Phillips might have been a good option yesterday. Matip was shite. But if Matip doesn't look match fit after preseason, and he definitely doesn't, Phillips will be miles off. He had even fewer minutes than Matip did.

The main problem with Matip yesterday was poor passing. Not entirely convinced Phillips is the answer to that problem.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

Haha. So, it's obvious, but it's a joke "if it's the case"? Which is it? Is it obvious or is it a maybe?

 

The fact is; we keep pushing the midfield off. It isn't the case that there were never funds available for the last 2 summers. If the midfielder we wanted was available, we'd find a way to buy him, just like we found a way to spend money during Covid by structuring deals. 

 

I think the injuries right now could give us an impetus to finally force something. Hope so, at least. 

its obvious. Because we’ve never spent notable money under these owners. NEVER. Every single incoming has been balanced by considerable outgoings. Our net every season floats around 20-40m, despite winning everything under the sun. 
 

Put it this way, if Tchoumeni was bought we wouldn’t have Darwin Nunez right now. We’d be told Diaz was Mane’s replacement. 

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

its obvious. Because we’ve never spent notable money under these owners. NEVER. Every single incoming has been balanced by considerable outgoings. Our net every season floats around 20-40m, despite winning everything under the sun. 
 

Put it this way, if Tchoumeni was bought we wouldn’t have Darwin Nunez right now. We’d be told Diaz was Mane’s replacement. 

Nunez is irrelevant, we're talking about buying a midfielder.

[Code]

19 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

It is funny that for a manager that likes high intensity football, most of our midfielders are pretty unatheltic. 

 

And the likes of Henderson and Thiago are at the point in their careers where they simply can't be at full tilt every week. They can turn it on at the right time sometimes, but on a week to week basis, it will get dubious.

 

And the injuries are a piss take.

What a load of shite. 
 

Thiago is 31 and Henderson is 32, we live in 2022, not 1972. 

[an tha]

If Thiago is indeed out for 3 months - which effectively means we probably won’t see him again in 2022 - we IMO really need to sign a midfielder before this window shuts.

 

Not doing so could see us really struggle given the lack of reliability fitness wise in our midfield ranks and lack of proven quality amongst the cover.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

10 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Nunez is irrelevant, we're talking about buying a midfielder.

We’re talking about whether the owners will sanction the cost of a midfielder, the costs they’ve already sanctioned this summer are definitely not “irrelevant”. 

 

I don’t think we will buy a midfielder. Even if we do, it’s a disgrace we have left it this long. The season has started. The injuries were predicted by many fans across the world, including me on here. We should have bought a midfielder before pre season in Asia.

[CapeRed]

Just now, an tha said:

If Thiago is indeed out for 3 months - which effectively means we probably won’t see him again in 2022 - we IMO really need to sign a midfielder before this window shuts.

 

Not doing so could see us really struggle given the lack of reliability fitness wise in our midfield ranks and lack of proven quality amongst the cover.

Yeah I heard he is out until after Qatar and we are exploring a potential loan signing which, if true, is a joke.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

1 minute ago, an tha said:

If Thiago is indeed out for 3 months - which effectively means we probably won’t see him again in 2022 - we IMO really need to sign a midfielder before this window shuts.

 

Not doing so could see us really struggle given the lack of reliability fitness wise in our midfield ranks and lack of proven quality amongst the cover.

Yikes, 3 months is a long time. Has that been confirmed?

[an tha]

1 minute ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

Yikes, 3 months is a long time. Has that been confirmed?

Seems to be the timeframe that is doing the rounds.....hopefully it is wrong.

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

We’re talking about whether the owners will sanction the cost of a midfielder, the costs they’ve already sanctioned this summer are definitely not “irrelevant”. 

 

I don’t think we will buy a midfielder. Even if we do, it’s a disgrace we have left it this long. The season has started. The injuries were predicted by many fans across the world, including me on here. We should have bought a midfielder before pre season in Asia.

It's irrelevant because it's about the desire to address the position. You can make deals if the desire is there. You can structure them differently, you can defer payments, as we already did for other transfers.