Keir Starmer

[Red Phoenix]

I think RLB should sack Labour off anyway and start a new party, see if she can get a few of her fellow commies to join her.

 

Last year we had The Independent Group, this year we should have The Independent Linkers.

 

*ba-dum tish*

 

Yeah I'll get my coat.

[Numero Veinticinco]

6 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I have no idea what RLB's intention was so I can't help with that. As for the other bit, I know a load of people don't care, any of us on here know that clearly I think. When I see in response to the word humanity stuff about moral superiority and ignoring/demonising people though I'm not and never will be agreeing with that, and I doubt many others would either. If we're fine with people not giving a fuck, maybe they should be fine with some of us being the opposite. I don't see why that's any type of controversial idea either.

I don’t think it is controversial, is it? I mean, I must have posted a fifty or a hundred times about Israel on this forum over the last ten years. I care. It’s an area of significance for geopolitical strife lasting decades. That said, I’m not a politician trying to win an election, or one from a party which has been scrutinised in an antisemitism scandal. The general point that it’s not smart to continually throw yourself into the fire over what is, for the voters currently worried about many other things, a fringe issue. 

[Strontium]

https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/26/sacking-rebecca-long-bailey-labour-antisemitism-keir-starmer

[aRdja]

I’m okay with this. This is showing me that Keir Starmer is serious about winning the next election. Steer well clear away from criticising Israel or supporting the Palestinian cause until you’re in government. It’s a real long hanging fruit for the right to attack labour and I’m glad and relieved that he’s wised up to it.

[Bjornebye]

"That reality is getting worse for Palestinians, with the prospect of annexation of the West Bank looming ever closer. We need to hear that, without getting diverted by medieval fantasies about Jews."

 

 

 

[aRdja]

6 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

"That reality is getting worse for Palestinians, with the prospect of annexation of the West Bank looming ever closer. We need to hear that, without getting diverted by medieval fantasies about Jews."

 

It’s a sorry sad state of affair, but it’s a poisoned chalice IMHO. It’s a battle that they need to sacrifice to win the war. 

[Red Phoenix]

59 minutes ago, Numero said:

I don’t think it is controversial, is it? I mean, I must have posted a fifty or a hundred times about Israel on this forum over the last ten years. I care. It’s an area of significance for geopolitical strife lasting decades. That said, I’m not a politician trying to win an election, or one from a party which has been scrutinised in an antisemitism scandal. The general point that it’s not smart to continually throw yourself into the fire over what is, for the voters currently worried about many other things, a fringe issue. 

I don't think it's controversial either and I think there might be more to what was going on with RLB than a simple disgreement over a tweet, but I don't think we'll ever know the full story on that either so I suppose it's kind of pointless us trying to understand it properly.

 

I saw that Freedland article earlier too, there's no way I'm reading it but noticed this and was glad I didn't :

 

For a long while, my favourite illustration of such thinking was the Washington DC council member who in 2018 blamed a day’s heavy snowfall on “the Rothschilds”. But Peake might now have a claim to top spot.

 

Yeah the mistake Peake made was worse than saying Rothschilds are causing the snow. Of course if it was that that RLB had linked instead he'd soon have a different view.

[Duff Man]

Just howling at the idea the Tories will be concerned by the contrast in the way they handled Cummings/Jenrick affairs. Astonishing stuff.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Here's an article setting out the case for calling Maxine Peake and RLB anti-Semitic.  I can't say I'm convinced (there's loads here that's not really factually correct and plenty of assumptions: they seem to start with the "fact" that Peake repeated an existing conspiracy theory and have set out to prove that's what happened.)

 

https://antisemitism.uk/why-it-is-antisemitic-to-claim-that-israel-was-to-blame-for-the-killing-of-george-floyd/?fbclid=IwAR3Reqf69Ckw9ySfqFrq4avgOVUBW3-YrxldEcm4oP5wAPcqKfXeCUYyauI

[Sugar Ape]

16 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Here's an article setting out the case for calling Maxine Peake and RLB anti-Semitic.  I can't say I'm convinced (there's loads here that's not really factually correct and plenty of assumptions: they seem to start with the "fact" that Peake repeated an existing conspiracy theory and have set out to prove that's what happened.)

 

https://antisemitism.uk/why-it-is-antisemitic-to-claim-that-israel-was-to-blame-for-the-killing-of-george-floyd/?fbclid=IwAR3Reqf69Ckw9ySfqFrq4avgOVUBW3-YrxldEcm4oP5wAPcqKfXeCUYyauI

I’ve seen people on here, possibly even you, posting stuff from this fella before. I don’t usually agree with him but I think he’s pretty close to being right here. Won’t post the whole twitter thread as it’s lengthy. 
 

 

[Jairzinho]

20 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Here's an article setting out the case for calling Maxine Peake and RLB anti-Semitic.  I can't say I'm convinced (there's loads here that's not really factually correct and plenty of assumptions: they seem to start with the "fact" that Peake repeated an existing conspiracy theory and have set out to prove that's what happened.)

 

https://antisemitism.uk/why-it-is-antisemitic-to-claim-that-israel-was-to-blame-for-the-killing-of-george-floyd/?fbclid=IwAR3Reqf69Ckw9ySfqFrq4avgOVUBW3-YrxldEcm4oP5wAPcqKfXeCUYyauI

Quote

This particular conspiracy theory is antisemitic, because it observes an evil — police brutality or systemic racism in the United States — and looks to link it with Israel, in order to associate the Jews through the Jewish state with that evil.

So we're basically back to "The actions of the Israeli police and military represent all Jewish people".

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

So we're basically back to "The actions of the Israeli police and military represent all Jewish people".

More like 'the accusation is being made because they are Jews', not that Israel's police represent all Jews. I don't think RLB is antisemitic, by the way. I mean, surely nobody is actually claiming she is and if they are then they're foolish or completely insincere or both. I'd imagine that Starmer would have done the same with anybody who refused to take it down. If I was him, I'd be pissed right off that she was daft enough to touch it. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

33 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

I’ve seen people on here, possibly even you, posting stuff from this fella before. I don’t usually agree with him but I think he’s pretty close to being right here. Won’t post the whole twitter thread as it’s lengthy. 
 

 

Overall that's a really good read. I mean, I have a couple of things that rub me slightly the wrong way, but generally he has clearly read my posts on here, taken the cunt out of them, then copied it. Good job.

[Jairzinho]

58 minutes ago, Numero said:

More like 'the accusation is being made because they are Jews', not that Israel's police represent all Jews. I don't think RLB is antisemitic, by the way. I mean, surely nobody is actually claiming she is and if they are then they're foolish or completely insincere or both. I'd imagine that Starmer would have done the same with anybody who refused to take it down. If I was him, I'd be pissed right off that she was daft enough to touch it. 

That accusation can be made any time anyone criticises Israeli police or military. "You're only criticising them because they're Jews".

 

My point is that must be millions of Jewish people who think "hang on sec, these fucking cunts don't represent me". The result of ludicrous shit like this situation is that some people will start to think that the actions of the Israeli police or military do represent all Jewish people. Shit like this leads to more fear for Jewish people and more anti-semitism. Actual anti-semitism. It feeds in to all the conspiratorial nonsense about "Jews running the world" David Icke type stuff. I guarantee he'll be in his bunker right now plugged in to a toaster recording a 14 hour monologue about it.

 

I just fucking hate it all. I hate how the *look away now* ...narrative has been allowed to be developed over the last few years (decades really). Criticising the actions of the Israeli government is antisemitic, criticising Iran or Saudi Arabia is islamophobic. No, it's because they're cunts. It's because they shoot kids on the beach, or bomb weddings. It's because they regularly break international law, or stone people to death for adultery. That's why they're held up as "cunt examples" all the time. Because they're cunts. 

 

Anyway, I'm rabbling. RLB being fucked off, in isolation, doesn't seem any great loss to the Labour Party. But how did we get to the stage where the Labour leader felt under pressure to do so...fucking hell.

[Numero Veinticinco]

17 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

That accusation can be made any time anyone criticises Israeli police or military. "You're only criticising them because they're Jews".

 

My point is that must be millions of Jewish people who think "hang on sec, these fucking cunts don't represent me". The result of ludicrous shit like this situation is that some people will start to think that the actions of the Israeli police or military do represent all Jewish people. Shit like this leads to more fear for Jewish people and more anti-semitism. Actual anti-semitism. It feeds in to all the conspiratorial nonsense about "Jews running the world" David Icke type stuff. I guarantee he'll be in his bunker right now plugged in to a toaster recording a 14 hour monologue about it.

 

I just fucking hate it all. I hate how the *look away now* ...narrative has been allowed to be developed over the last few years (decades really). Criticising the actions of the Israeli government is antisemitic, criticising Iran or Saudi Arabia is islamophobic. No, it's because they're cunts. It's because they shoot kids on the beach, or bomb weddings. It's because they regularly break international law, or stone people to death for adultery. That's why they're held up as "cunt examples" all the time. Because they're cunts. 

 

Anyway, I'm rabbling. RLB being fucked off, in isolation, doesn't seem any great loss to the Labour Party. But how did we get to the stage where the Labour leader felt under pressure to do so...fucking hell.

Yeah, I’m with you on that. It is pathetic and it seems, at least in part, as a result of this whole group think that goes on in the media and particularly on social media. We live in a time of micro aggressions and weird behaviours. It hurts the cause by people thinking ‘if that’s what racism is, racism isn’t that bad’. And actually they’re not completely unjustified in thinking that. That’s not to diminish the seriousness of acts of hatred or racism, they should be called out whenever they happen. It’s all a bit fake. That said, this is one that was wrong and, at best, clumsy. 
 

I’ll never let it get in the way of my criticising a nation though. Fuck that noise. 

[Jairzinho]

Yes, this one, more than anything else, was really shit politics.

 

Why now? I mean, really. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Yes, this one, more than anything else, was really shit politics.

 

Why now? I mean, really. 

If I was her I’d have gone ‘Israel? I’ll leave that alone’. Even if true, which it isn’t, it’s a tenuous fucking link, so why bother? If it was Israel’s normal shenanigans, sure, get together and speak out as a group. Ah well, she’s gone, he sent a ‘don’t fuck with me’ message, let’s hope we can get back to holding the sugar monster to account. 

[Bjornebye]

Totally agree. She was fucking stupid doing it and if that is what she is capable of then maybe its all for the best. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Fucking hell, the timing of this, released a few minutes ago. 
 

 

[Bjornebye]

It is hard to keep quiet about things like this though

 

 

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

Good video by Jonathan Pie. At the end of the day RLB did sign up to all of the BoD's demands too, so in some sense she's walked right into the trap that she herself signed up to, and that many of us warned about. The whole situation is a total fucking joke really.

[skend04]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/27/keir-starmer-names-kate-green-as-shadow-education-secretary

 

Looks a decent appointment on the face of it seeing as she's campaigned against child poverty and educational inequalities for a long time. Seems to be pro-proportional representation for voting in MPs too.

[aRdja]

 

Lisa Nandy doesn’t want to win an election apparently.

[Bjornebye]

20 minutes ago, aRdja said:

 

Lisa Nandy doesn’t want to win an election apparently.

Good on her. Has Rachel Riley worn a t-shirt calling her an anti-semite yet? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 hours ago, skend04 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/27/keir-starmer-names-kate-green-as-shadow-education-secretary

 

Looks a decent appointment on the face of it seeing as she's campaigned against child poverty and educational inequalities for a long time. Seems to be pro-proportional representation for voting in MPs too.

That’ll go down well. Resigned from the Shadow government under Corbyn and supported Owen Smith’s challenge and criticised Corbyn openly. That’ll make her a Blairite to some, especially on twitter where boneheads are let loose. 

Edit: Yep, Fascist.