Keir Starmer

[Babb'sBurstNad]

29 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

If you say ‘I hate the English government because they are sneaky, just like all English people’ that’s racist.  

To be fair, we are sneaky.

[Rico1304]

12 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

To be fair, we are sneaky.

Fair comment. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Once again, we're not taking about criticism here, we're talking about something false. Lies and legitimate criticism should not be conflated because they are not the same. If Peake had said nothing false, some people may raise an eyebrow about the amount of attention being given to this issue, but they couldn't very well have criticised anyone who retweeted it.

 

I'd also add that I don't believe it's in anyone's interests for untruths to be perpetuated. Surely if you are an opponent of the Jewish state, this harms your cause too? If you're interested in securing a fair deal for the Palestinians, then you'd want supporters to stick rigidly to the facts. Goodness knows there's enough true stuff for you to raise merry hell over.

 

I'm not remotely happy about any of this episode, but I don't see that Starmer had much choice. Corbyn came in for criticism when he went on Iranian TV and falsely blamed Israel for a terrorist attack in Egypt perpetrated by Islamist militants. This is an easy way for Starmer to show he won't tolerate that sort of thing.

I used the "pretty dense" wording to highlight your ridiculous rebuttal of RP's complaint that the IDF are being equated with "the Jews".

 

Also, you seem to be the only person denying that the Israeli security forces provide training to US Police forces. 

[Pidge]

To be fair, the English do all hate their sneaky government.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Pidge said:

To be fair, the English do all hate their sneaky government.

Racist. 

[Scooby Dudek]

Conflating action taken by the State of Israel as "Jews" is a conflation condemned by IHRA as anti-Semitic, so surely calling someone anti-Semitic for slagging the Israeli state police, is in itself anti-Semitic.

[Numero Veinticinco]

20 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Conflating action taken by the State of Israel as "Jews" is a conflation condemned by IHRA as anti-Semitic, so surely calling someone anti-Semitic for slagging the Israeli state police, is in itself anti-Semitic.

Antisemitiception. 

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, Numero said:

Antisemitiception. 

Sneaky.

[Rico1304]

So Maxine Peake is rowing back from her comments. 

[Rico1304]

And now Amnesty...

 

So AoT, that’s why the link was bollocks. 

[redheart]

Sorry but this is pathetic.

 

I have dealt with RBL on numerous occasions and she is a thoroughly decent human being. She retweeted an article which is mostly aimed at saying anyone who didn't vote Labour because of Corbyn essentially voted Tory and we need rid of Tories at any cost. RBL agreed.

 

There was one comment re racism and capitalism. This referenced US police forces in the US being trained by Israeli Services (true) and the use of neck kneeling by those forces (also true there is plenty of evidence). The general point being Israeli forces use excessive and unlawful force against those of a different race/ethnicity/nationality and often kill them for no reason and without consequence. All true.

 

I see no anti-Semitism here. I see a criticism of Israel. Even in the overly broad and oppressive definition of anti-Semitism  issue by the IHRA this is not anti-Semitism it is a critique of the tactics used by Israeli services.

 

I am tired of "one issue" politics being used to stifle debate.

 

I am tired of Labour (a party which has done more for all forms of equality than any other) allowing itself to bullied in this way and throwing decent people under the bus in a craven attempt to gain power regardless of the cost.

 

I can no longer remain a member of the party and I will be leaving also. I will continue to vote Labour (no real alternative on the left) but I will not financially support this nonsense

[Red Phoenix]

9 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

And now Amnesty...

 

So AoT, that’s why the link was bollocks. 

 

Hahaha, imagine if you still supported Tories and an MP just got sacked from the cabinet because he/she linked an article that :

 

Wasn't focused on Saudi Arabia at all, and wasn't linked because of any focus on Saudi Arabia or Muslims, but had one comment about Saudi police training another country's forces in brutal methods, and the Tory MP got sacked from the cabinet for stoking Islamophobia.

 

Or if Strontium faced the same situation with a Lib Dem MP.

 

As if either of you would be agreeing that it was the right thing to have been done! I'm sure we'd be seeing comments about Islam being a stupid religion though and how it was PC gone mad. Yet you're both here defending this.

 

Nope, no bias at all here.

[Rico1304]

15 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Hahaha, imagine if you still supported Tories and an MP just got sacked from the cabinet because he/she linked an article that :

 

Wasn't focused on Saudi Arabia at all, and wasn't linked because of any focus on Saudi Arabia or Muslims, but had one comment about Saudi police training another country's forces in brutal methods, and the Tory MP got sacked from the cabinet for stoking Islamophobia.

 

Or if Strontium faced the same situation with a Lib Dem MP.

 

As if either of you would be agreeing that it was the right thing to have been done! I'm sure we'd be seeing comments about Islam being a stupid religion though and how it was PC gone mad. Yet you're both here defending this.

 

Nope, no bias at all here.

Even the people who produced the original ‘report’ JVP have said it was anti Semitic.  
 

 

[Bjornebye]

You can't criticise Israel. I won't say why because I'll be labelled. Sad state of affairs. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Isreal is ran by absolute cunts. That's not unique to isreal though, seems to be fairly typical.

[Jairzinho]

I'd imagine for quite a lot of Jewish people it's immensely offensive for them to be "represented" by either Likud or the IDF.

 

[stringvest]

2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

I'd imagine for quite a lot of Jewish people it's immensely offensive for them to be "represented" by either Likud or the IDF.

 

sadly not for enough of them

[Jairzinho]

Just now, stringvest said:

sadly not for enough of them

In defence of the "Jewish community" those that don't support murdering children on beaches do seem to get considerably less of a public voice than those who do.

 

Those that don't are banded the "extremist" or "fringe" views. Which, again, seems quite insulting.

[Jairzinho]

Mark Regev, for example, the British media's celebrity psychopath, is treated as some sort of rational voice (although at least Jon Snow treats him with the disdain he deserves) rather than the absolute fucking abortion he is.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Israel's propaganda machine is a real achievement. Like, truly, it's masterful. It's appalling but it's very good at what it does. It just so happens that what it does is pretty despicable most of the time. That said, it's got very little to do with this whole thing. I'm not surprised at the outrage of some over the sacking of RLB (or RBL as those who have met her seem to think she's called?), because, ya know, Corbynistas gon' Corbynist. That's fine, but it's not particularly rational in this case, I don't think. For those who are wildly incensed by the whole imbroglio, why would any Labour politician retweet something like that after such a big problem with it. I wouldn't touch that sort of unfounded implication with a shitty stick. If Israel, as it might well do any minute, kills a load of kids who were walking too close to a fence, then denounce them. Retweeting some shit like that is just stupid. Refusing to take it down? Not surprised he said, 'off you fuck, then'.

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

@Jairzinho There's an echo on your line, mate. 

[Jairzinho]

Fuck off...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

off...off

[stringvest]

4 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

In defence of the "Jewish community" those that don't support murdering children on beaches do seem to get considerably less of a public voice than those who do.

 

Those that don't are banded the "extremist" or "fringe" views. Which, again, seems quite insulting.

I know, but the mumblings those enlightened individuals don't get a look in - not even in this country.  The fact is though, that Israelis have for decades voted for people wanting essentially to repeat the actions perpetrated on them on others, while hiding behind a massively over-engineered PR campaign.  A hideous regime.  And those people that do not reject it are just as bad.  

[Strontium]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Hahaha, imagine if you still supported Tories and an MP just got sacked from the cabinet because he/she linked an article that :

 

Wasn't focused on Saudi Arabia at all, and wasn't linked because of any focus on Saudi Arabia or Muslims, but had one comment about Saudi police training another country's forces in brutal methods, and the Tory MP got sacked from the cabinet for stoking Islamophobia.

 

Or if Strontium faced the same situation with a Lib Dem MP.

 

As if either of you would be agreeing that it was the right thing to have been done! I'm sure we'd be seeing comments about Islam being a stupid religion though and how it was PC gone mad. Yet you're both here defending this.

 

Nope, no bias at all here.

 

I see you're trying to make an analogy, but I don't think the situation lends itself to analogies. There isn't any country, be it Saudi Arabia or any other, which holds the same significance for Muslims that a Jewish homeland holds for the Hebrew people. That's a connection you simply don't understand, and I'd suggest that that failure to understand it is at the root of the problems the left keeps having with this issue.

 

Also, you evidently missed my support for the sackings of Lib Dem MPs Jenny Tonge and David Ward back in the day. Consistency, folks!

[torahboy]

22 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I know, but the mumblings those enlightened individuals don't get a look in - not even in this country.  The fact is though, that Israelis have for decades voted for people wanting essentially to repeat the actions perpetrated on them on others, while hiding behind a massively over-engineered PR campaign.  A hideous regime.  And those people that do not reject it are just as bad.  

Absolutely correct.