Keir Starmer

[Rico1304]

58 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

"The acting community"?

 

Is that a thing?  I thought actors were just, y'know, individuals with different opinions on stuff.  Jesus, even if you take a narrow sub-section of "the acting community" - let's say "veteran Jewish female comic actors/borderline national treasures" - you get Miriam Margolyes and Maureen Lipman taking opposite sides of the "Labour anti-Semitism" debate.

 

And what the fuck should she be condemned for?  The Israeli forces use racist violence.  They also trained US police departments who use racist violence.  She never said "Israel ordered a hit on George Floyd" or anything unreasonable - and she certainly never said anything anti-Semitic.

Well they have a Union. Wonder what they’ll say? Oh, nothing. 

[Red Phoenix]

19 minutes ago, clockspeed said:

Agree with your first sentence. What is your take on why she would not delete the tweet and explain ?

 

Maye she felt that she shouldn't have to for a bunch of twats? I don't have any solid belief on that, have only just seen this less than an hour ago and mainly amazed at what's happened.

 

The lack of support is the main thing, such a stupid thing to have a drama about but she's instantly out of the cabinet. I'm sure plenty of Tories will be pissing themselves too, it'll be a long few years of this shit if Starmer doesn't draw a line somewhere and I can't see how it's going to help Labour at all in the long run.

[torahboy]

Is Starmer going to fuck off members of Amnesty as well?

 

https://www.amnestyusa.org/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

[Rico1304]

The ‘White lives matter’ banner was racist.   He got fired (and his wife).  Will she get fired? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

36 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

You'd have to be pretty dense not to know that the overwhelming majority of Israeli secret servicepeople are Jews.

You'd have to be pretty dense to believe - or dishonest to pretend - that anyone criticising Israeli security forces does so because they're Jewish (and not because they're institutionally racist human rights abusers).

 

As a liberal, are you happy to see somebody losing their job in this way?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

The ‘White lives matter’ banner was racist.   He got fired (and his wife).  Will she get fired? 

Are you seriously comparing this to that?

 

You are a twat when you're on a wind-up mission.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Well they have a Union. Wonder what they’ll say? Oh, nothing. 

I've no idea whether Equity routinely condemn actors who say racist stuff in interviews.  What I do know is that Maxine Peake said nothing racist in this interview.

[Bjornebye]

Asking your missus for a blowie isn't wrong but after a full blown argument you would be well advised to keep shut for a bit. 

 

RBL should have thought better than to retweet it. 

 

[mattyq]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Asking your missus for a blowie isn't wrong but after a full blown argument you would be well advised to keep shut for a bit. 

 

RBL should have thought better than to retweet it. 

 

This

Think RLB was daft and needed to pay attention to what she was tweetng.

Don't think it was a sacking offence but Starmer has shown he's decisive and sticks to his guns so will go down well amongst the general public

Not sure it's so good for Party unity

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Asking your missus for a blowie isn't wrong but after a full blown argument you would be well advised to keep shut for a bit. 

 

RBL should have thought better than to retweet it. 

 

In her defence, there was one throwaway line in a long interview, about a new programme and the horrors of capitalism and racism and the need to get rid of the Tories.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/maxine-peake-interview-labour-corbyn-keir-starmer-black-lives-matter-a9583206.html 

 

 “if you talk about the formation of religion, it’s about control isn’t it? And with what’s happening in America at the moment, it’s about financial control. It’s about keeping the poor in their place.” As we speak, Black Lives Matter protestors are out on the streets after yet another killing of an unarmed black man, George Floyd, by police.

“I don’t know how we escape that cycle that’s indoctrinated into us all,” continues the 45-year-old. “Well, we get rid of it when we get rid of capitalism as far as I’m concerned. That’s what it’s all about. The establishment has got to go. We’ve got to change it.” Born in Bolton to a lorry driver father and care worker mother, Peake is strident and expressive; if religion wasn’t anathema to her, she’d be perfect in the pulpit. “Systemic racism is a global issue,” she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.” 

 

...Peake campaigned for the Labour Party at the last general election, and was a vocal supporter of Jeremy Corbyn even as many people turned their back on him. “Those people who were normally Labour supporters who felt they couldn’t vote Labour? Well I’m sorry, they voted Tory as far as I’m concerned,” says Peake. “And it breaks my heart, because you know what? I didn’t like Tony Blair, but I still voted Labour because anything’s better than the Tories. There’s a lot of people who should hang their heads in shame. People going, ‘Oh, I can join the Labour Party again because Keir Starmer’s there,’ well shame on you.”

 

What does she think of the new Labour leader? “You know what, at the end of the day, all I want is the Tories out. I think people will get behind Starmer, won’t they? He’s a more acceptable face of the Labour Party for a lot of people who are not really left wing. But that’s fine. Whatever. As long as the Tories get out, I don’t care anymore. You can’t be sad, you’ve just got to get on and organise, without standing at the rooftops and going, ‘You reap what you sow!’ There were moments when I wanted to scream that,” she adds with a doleful laugh, “but no, we’ve got to keep moving forward.”

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Don't think it was a sacking offence but Starmer has shown he's decisive and sticks to the BoD's guns so will go down well amongst the general public

Not sure it's so good for Party unity

Fixed.

[Red Phoenix]

 

[sir roger]

Let's hope the BoD bring more votes to the table than the pesky socialists.

[Numero Veinticinco]

15 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

There’s some utter bollocks in some of the reactions to this, but if that’s true - and I do mean IF, because I don’t trust Sky - then that’s strange. I’d have thought a meeting would have been acceptable. That said, it’s also strange that a group of left wing MPs banded together for a meeting, again if that’s true at all. 

 

As for the ousting her because she is left wing, because she is a socialist... out of interest, who appointed her to her role? Corbynite reaction on Twitter looks fucking hilarious in how ridiculous it is. Some of the replies here, whether or not it was an overreaction, are just indicative of the Evertonian mindset of the left of Labour. It’s basically ultra partisanship. It was never going to be any other reaction 1) she was a Corbynite, 2) Starmer is hated by Corbynites. They are looking for any opportunity. I’m not shocked to see any calm analysis of the action taken replaced with cries of Blairite, left wing purge. 
 

I haven’t seen the entire reason he sacked her, but it looks heavy handed so that it sends a message that if you do the wrong thing and make a mistake, then don’t follow instruction to remove it, you’ll get fired. Talk of a purge is utterly hideous though 

[Red Phoenix]

8 minutes ago, Numero said:

There’s some utter bollocks in some of the reactions to this, but if that’s true - and I do mean IF, because I don’t trust Sky - then that’s strange. I’d have thought a meeting would have been acceptable. That said, it’s also strange that a group of left wing MPs banded together for a meeting, again if that’s true at all. 

 

As for the ousting her because she is left wing, because she is a socialist... out of interest, who appointed her to her role? Corbynite reaction on Twitter looks fucking hilarious in how ridiculous it is. Some of the replies here, whether or not it was an overreaction, are just indicative of the Evertonian mindset of the left of Labour. It’s basically ultra partisanship. It was never going to be any other reaction 1) she was a Corbynite, 2) Starmer is hated by Corbynites. They are looking for any opportunity. I’m not shocked to see any calm analysis of the action taken replaced with cries of Blairite, left wing purge. 
 

I haven’t seen the entire reason he sacked her, but it looks heavy handed so that it sends a message that if you do the wrong thing and make a mistake, then don’t follow instruction to remove it, you’ll get fired. Talk of a purge is utterly hideous though 

 

She shouldn't have been instructed to remove it in the first place. It means fuck all that he appointed her to the role either if he's then going to do this shortly after.

 

Starmer will have to draw a line with these idiots somewhere or Labour are fucked as a left wing party.

[sir roger]

I think clarification is  needed if the new normal in the Labour party is that any mention of Israeli people , their country or their government is only allowed if it is positive , and the IHRA definitions need to be updated to state that contrary to the earlier version, criticism of Israel is indeed to be treated as anti-semitism.

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

She shouldn't have been instructed to remove it in the first place. It means fuck all that he appointed her to the role either if he's then going to do this shortly after.

 

Starmer will have to draw a line with these idiots somewhere or Labour are fucked as a left wing party.

In your opinion she shouldn’t have been told to remove it. That’s a perfectly valid opinion (erm, in my opinion). As leader of the Labour Party which has lost so much credibility over the way it handled, or didn’t handle the antisemitism claims, he clearly sees it another way. Again, a valid opinion (in my opinion). What it isn’t, obviously, is some purge if the left. 

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

You'd have to be pretty dense to believe - or dishonest to pretend - that anyone criticising Israeli security forces does so because they're Jewish (and not because they're institutionally racist human rights abusers).

 

As a liberal, are you happy to see somebody losing their job in this way?

 

Once again, we're not taking about criticism here, we're talking about something false. Lies and legitimate criticism should not be conflated because they are not the same. If Peake had said nothing false, some people may raise an eyebrow about the amount of attention being given to this issue, but they couldn't very well have criticised anyone who retweeted it.

 

I'd also add that I don't believe it's in anyone's interests for untruths to be perpetuated. Surely if you are an opponent of the Jewish state, this harms your cause too? If you're interested in securing a fair deal for the Palestinians, then you'd want supporters to stick rigidly to the facts. Goodness knows there's enough true stuff for you to raise merry hell over.

 

I'm not remotely happy about any of this episode, but I don't see that Starmer had much choice. Corbyn came in for criticism when he went on Iranian TV and falsely blamed Israel for a terrorist attack in Egypt perpetrated by Islamist militants. This is an easy way for Starmer to show he won't tolerate that sort of thing.

[Red Phoenix]

1 minute ago, Numero said:

In your opinion she shouldn’t have been told to remove it. That’s a perfectly valid opinion (erm, in my opinion). As leader of the Labour Party which has lost so much credibility over the way it handled, or didn’t handle the antisemitism claims, he clearly sees it another way. Again, a valid opinion (in my opinion). What it isn’t, obviously, is some purge if the left. 

 

Agreed that he clearly sees it differently. Was just going to say as well : I was one of the only people here that I'm aware of that supported RLB for leader, and you're one of the most vocal in support of Starmer here lately, so I'd guess that there's absolutely no fucking way we're going to agree on much here. And I've been queuing for Elder Scrolls PVP for almost the last 2 hours and I can almost get in, so I'm going to get out of here.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I think clarification is  needed if the new normal in the Labour party is that any mention of Israeli people , their country or their government is only allowed if it is positive , and the IHRA definitions need to be updated to state that contrary to the earlier version, criticism of Israel is indeed to be treated as anti-semitism.

 

I don’t understand why any Labour politician would go near it at the moment. I think the IHRA definition has issues, but there’s something a little bit unsavoury about falsely apportioning blame to Israel - probably the country I dislike second most in the entire world after Saudi Arabia - for something they had nothing to do with. Trust me, they have a fucking lot to do with a lot of horrible shit, there’s no need to make shit up, there’s certainly no need to argue about a retraction. It was stupid from RLB and Starmer seems to have drawn his own line in the sand. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Agreed that he clearly sees it differently. Was just going to say as well : I was one of the only people here that I'm aware of that supported RLB for leader, and you're one of the most vocal in support of Starmer here lately, so I'd guess that there's absolutely no fucking way we're going to agree on much here. And I've been queuing for Elder Scrolls PVP for almost the last 2 hours and I can almost get in, so I'm going to get out of here.

If it seems that I’m defending Starmer, it’s really just because I have rejected a lot of falsehoods. I actually did the same for Corbyn, even though I thought he was a pretty poor leader. He has a lot to prove, but the claims of a ‘she’s a socialist... sack her’ approach are just wildly illogical. 
 

That said, enjoy your game. I’m busy melting my bollocks off. 

[mattyq]

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

6 minutes ago, mattyq said:

 

So, it was an ill-informed mistake rather than a conspiracy theory. 

 

When you boil it down, sharing an article which contains a non-antisemitic and ill-informed inaccuracy is miles away from sharing an article which contains an "antisemitic conspiracy theory" and doesn't warrant an instant dismissal. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

So, it was an ill-informed mistake rather than a conspiracy theory. 

 

When you boil it down, sharing an article which contains a non-antisemitic and ill-informed inaccuracy is miles away from sharing an article which contains an "antisemitic conspiracy theory" and doesn't warrant an instant dismissal. 

By the looks of it, judging from her own tweet, there wasn’t an instant dismissal. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 minutes ago, Numero said:

By the looks of it, judging from her own tweet, there wasn’t an instant dismissal. 

It doesn't warrant any sort of dismissal though. Instant or not.