Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

GROWTH!

 

You are not seriously giving this government an easy get out of jail card by blaming their disastrous management of the economy on our leaving the EU? Have the Nordic countries not in the EU experiencing our disastrous economic peril?

 

Cummings and Cain did say a positive of Brexit was Liberals and left would look at our failings through the prism of Brexit. You're proving him right.

[skend04]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You are not seriously giving this government an easy get out of jail card by blaming their disastrous management of the economy on our leaving the EU? Have the Nordic countries not in the EU experiencing our disastrous economic peril?

 

Cummings and Cain did say a positive of Brexit was Liberals and left would look at our failings through the prism of Brexit. You're proving him right.

Or Cummings and Cain knew it was a shit decision and got their excuses in early. I know which one I think is correct.

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Or Cummings and Cain knew it was a shit decision and got their excuses in early. I know which one I think is correct.

Maybe. They were political animals so it's a possibility. I think they figured the left would continue to fight yesterdays battles. Johnson sealed his own fate when he fired Cummings and instead listened to the ear of the Chelsea sloane wife.

[Rico1304]

On 05/03/2019 at 23:01, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

 

But.... but.... it's just "Project Fear" isn't it?

 

Easiest deals in history?  No downsides?  Sunlit uplands?  Inefficient Hoovers?  We were promised the lot!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/05/bmw-mini-cowley-no-deal-brexit-toyota?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR2p3TzpOjP1khfswHjB3Oocgw6Fv-0DIik3G_QZPP2RV59A1lbEYeVRM_Y

 

 

Cowley gone now. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 07/10/2022 at 15:03, Gnasher said:

You are not seriously giving this government an easy get out of jail card by blaming their disastrous management of the economy on our leaving the EU? Have the Nordic countries not in the EU experiencing our disastrous economic peril?

 

Cummings and Cain did say a positive of Brexit was Liberals and left would look at our failings through the prism of Brexit. You're proving him right.

The main economic point of EU membership is to remove barriers to trade and thereby encourage growth.  The obvious effect of Brexit (especially the "hard" Brexit chosen by the capitalist fundamentalists who were always going to be in charge of this) is to reimpose barriers to trade and thereby retard growth. And so it came to pass.

 

By the way, your "giving the government a get out of jail card" argument makes no sense. If you say "I got run over by a car" that isn't denying the driver's culpability.

[Jairzinho]

On 07/10/2022 at 14:23, Em City said:

 

I went through Tuscany on the train on my way to see Florence for a few hours and when I saw African lads at a rural train station in a group of 4 or 5, I sort of knew why the far right have taken hold there. Britain has many, many flaws but by and large it handles racial and ethnic integration comparatively well. The sort integration that seems to get more contentious the further east you go.

You have to bear in mind the numbers involved, and the relative wealth of the nations they arrive in. In 2014 about 200,000 Africans arrived in Italy. Remember when the right was crying in the UK about the possibility of 20,000 Syrians arriving in the UK? 

 

South Europe always gets the brunt of problems (for European countries) in Northern Africa and the Middle East. Problems often caused by Northern Europe (Libya being the best example). I have a friend who lives in Le Marche (next region down from Tuscany), he works as an integration officer for African migrants. He describes situations that can't simply be fixed by a country having more "will".

[Section_31]

Single market anyone?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

13 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Single market anyone?

Not sure I could be arsed with all this dating lark. 

[magicrat]

Telegraph saying Project Fear was right all along . Strange days indeed 

[Gnasher]

Just now, magicrat said:

Telegraph saying Project Fear was right all along . Strange days indeed 

The Telegraph have been spinning like a top all week. Almost everything that was said in run up to the referendum was bollocks but the then Chancellor George Osborne's warnings from Downing Street that their would be an 'emergency budget' 'House price crash' 'million unemployed overnight'  etc,  bollocks easily took top stop from rookies writing bullshit on the side of a bus.  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The Telegraph have been spinning like a top all week. Almost everything that was said in run up to the referendum was bollocks but the then Chancellor George Osborne's warnings from Downing Street that their would be an 'emergency budget' 'House price crash' 'million unemployed overnight'  etc,  bollocks easily took top stop from rookies writing bullshit on the side of a bus.  

Almost everything that was said by the Tory Government in early 2016 was bollocks. That's no great revelation. (Even that didn't match the "industrial scale" lying from the Leave campaign.)

 

Plenty of trade unionists, socialists and environmentalists were also warning about what would happen if we gave untrammeled power to the worst neoliberals in the country. You'll find it's a lot harder to dismiss their concerns, now that they're all coming true.

[Jairzinho]

38 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Single market anyone?

And a customs union. In fact, we could have just given everyone who voted for Brexit a blue passport and just pretended that we'd left the EU. 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Single market anyone?

Definitely not. The days of giving huge subsidies to the likes wealthy landowners to then treat poor Eastern European workers as cunts have gone.

 

If agricultural/haulage/retail/warehouse/construction firms need the people at the bottom 20% of the pay scale they have to start paying them their worth, which was exactly what was beginning to happen till world events and government incompetence stepped in.

 

 

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Almost everything that was said by the Tory Government in early 2016 was bollocks. That's no great revelation. (Even that didn't match the "industrial scale" lying from the Leave campaign.)

 

Plenty of trade unionists, socialists and environmentalists were also warning about what would happen if we gave untrammeled power to the worst neoliberals in the country. You'll find it's a lot harder to dismiss their concerns, now that they're all coming true.

 

We could have had a grown up agreement on our break with the eu Angry but the government was only interested in lining its own (and hedge fund managers) pockets. Starmers/Labours plan on our relationship with the EU is workable and fair.

 

Talking of predictions, some were ridiculed for years for suggesting leaving the EU will destroy the Conservative party, well here we are. 

 

 

 

 

When the Tories lose power it'll herald the biggest civil war in political history. It'll be fucking carnage.

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, magicrat said:

Telegraph saying Project Fear was right all along . Strange days indeed 

There's only a few ignorant idiots still pushing that it was a good idea. Brexit scumbags. 

[Gnasher]

39 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

And a customs union. In fact, we could have just given everyone who voted for Brexit a blue passport and just pretended that we'd left the EU. 

Yippee, another twenty years of wage stagnation.

[Gnasher]

Oh posh boys here with the insults. Fucking dick.

[Gnasher]

Anyone see Sharon Graham on Ridge this morning?  She's a British political diamond in a trough of shit. 

 

I remember having to defend her on the Starmer thread when she rightly called out David Lammy over his criticism of the strikers at Heathrow. No prize for guessing the poster who found her upsetting  A dispute she and her workers went on to win.

 

 

Graham is bang on the money here. She should be on our screens more often.

 

 

 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

44 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Definitely not. The days of giving huge subsidies to the likes wealthy landowners to then treat poor Eastern European workers as cunts have gone.

 

If agricultural/haulage/retail/warehouse/construction firms need the people at the bottom 20% of the pay scale they have to start paying them their worth, which was exactly what was beginning to happen till world events and government incompetence stepped in.

 

 

The Single Market doesn't mean giving subsidies to landowners.

 

The Single Market doesn't mean treating workers as cunts: the opposite, in fact, as evidenced by the actions of our Brexit government. 

[Gnasher]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The Single Market doesn't mean giving subsidies to landowners.

 

The Single Market doesn't mean treating workers as cunts: the opposite, in fact, as evidenced by the actions of our Brexit government. 

 

Well at least you've acknowledged the part the decisions our own government play in all this. It's a start.

[Section_31]

20 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Anyone see Sharon Graham on Ridge this morning?  She's a British political diamond in a trough of shit. 

 

I remember having to defend her on the Starmer thread when she rightly called out David Lammy over his criticism of the strikers at Heathrow. No prize for guessing the poster who found her upsetting  A dispute she and her workers went on to win.

 

 

Graham is bang on the money here. She should be on our screens more often.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starmer doesn't need to do or say anything. The very last thing he needs to do is provide ammo around which the tories can unite. Just...

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

47 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

If agricultural/haulage/retail/warehouse/construction firms need the people at the bottom 20% of the pay scale they have to start paying them their worth, which was exactly what was beginning to happen till world events and government incompetence stepped in.

So wrong.

 

The whole point of Brexit (according to the people who promoted it and rose to power off the back of it) is to shift power even further away from workers. The reason those (largely Covid-induced) massive payrises didn't last are the reasons I (and some of the people who benefited from them) said they wouldn't last: they were a blip. They were very welcome, but they were never the step-change you said they were. "World events" have got nothing to do with that.

[Gnasher]

Just now, Section_31 said:

 

Starmer doesn't need to do or say anything. The very last thing he needs to do is provide ammo around which the tories can unite. Just...

 

Depends what you want power for. If you want it just to be in government you're right. If you genuinely crave power to help working people their is nothing to stop the Labour Party committing to popular policies (even amongst Conservative voters) such as renationalisation of Water/Energy and giving nurses a well deserved pay rise. 

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

So wrong.

 

The whole point of Brexit (according to the people who promoted it and rose to power off the back of it) is to shift power even further away from workers. The reason those (largely Covid-induced) massive payrises didn't last are the reasons I (and some of the people who benefited from them) said they wouldn't last: they were a blip. They were very welcome, but they were never the step-change you said they were. "World events" have got nothing to do with that.

I did mention hedge fund capitalists in my post. Just because a certain section want to use leaving the EU to line their own pockets does not mean the decision is wrong as a whole.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

So wrong.

 

The whole point of Brexit (according to the people who promoted it and rose to power off the back of it) is to shift power even further away from workers. The reason those (largely Covid-induced) massive payrises didn't last are the reasons I (and some of the people who benefited from them) said they wouldn't last: they were a blip. They were very welcome, but they were never the step-change you said they were. "World events" have got nothing to do with that.

Of course world events have an impact, inflation is rising everywhere and everyone in Europe and beyond are suffering the consequences of Putin/Covid. Not as much as us through our governments incompetence but suffering they are.