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F1 2013 - Is Vettel a dick?

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In what other sport in the world can you have, in another competitor, a teammate and an opponent simultaneously? This incident (and even the Hamilton one further back) shows the massive conflict of interest within the sport that isn't just 'racing to win'.

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I think what we can all agree on is that you can't trust the Germans. One minute they are pretending to be nice and the next they are being snide on the track then before you know it they are all frog marching through your city and invading your homes.

 

Hahahahaha

 

He is fast becoming unpopular, he was booed on the podium in Australia.

 

He came across quite well when he was on top gear but yesterday made me think he is a bit of a cunt.

 

To say he didnt hear the instruction is a lie. Immediately after the race, when they get weighed and a cap before going on to the podium, Webber blanked him and sat down.

 

And Vettel just said "mark" in a really pathetic and weasely tone, knowing Webber was pissed. Webber then said "multi 21 seb, multi 21"

 

Vettel didn't reply, if he didn't know what Webber was on about he would have immediately come back with "vatt do you meanz"

 

Fucking weasel

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Vettel was definitely out of order but the larger problem is with the rules. I'd like to see the drivers going hell for leather to win a race. None of this preserving the car rubbish either. Give it everything you've got out there on the track. Let's see who the fastest is. Then reset it all again for the next race.

 

Meanwhile, in the sanitized world that is F1, Vettel and Webber were under team orders to coast in and maintain the 1-2 position. Vettel did his own thing, so the answer to the question the thread poses is a definite yes.

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In what other sport in the world can you have, in another competitor, a teammate and an opponent simultaneously? This incident (and even the Hamilton one further back) shows the massive conflict of interest within the sport that isn't just 'racing to win'.

 

Cycling. Chris Froome was clearly told to ease off a couple of times last year when he could have dropped Wiggins.

 

Regarding Vettel, he acted badly.

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Vettel was definitely out of order but the larger problem is with the rules. I'd like to see the drivers going hell for leather to win a race. None of this preserving the car rubbish either. Give it everything you've got out there on the track. Let's see who the fastest is. Then reset it all again for the next race.

 

Meanwhile, in the sanitized world that is F1, Vettel and Webber were under team orders to coast in and maintain the 1-2 position. Vettel did his own thing, so the answer to the question the thread poses is a definite yes.

It's an interesting perspective your holiness, but not one shared universally. In fact F1 has for years juggled a huge number of conflicting and contradictory interests, few of which serve to "see who the fastest is".

 

Let's be honest, if we really wanted to "see who the fastest is", we'd have all the drivers in the same car with the same engine, same tyres, same suspension, same gearbox, etc. etc. And we'd rotate the grids. Or, as many have argued, rotate the drivers around the various manufacturers' cars.

 

As things stand, it's impossible to determine who is or isn't a good driver: Jenson Button finished 17th in the 2008 drivers' championship - his ninth year in F1 gaining only three podium finishes over his 140+ GPs. With only weeks before the first race of 2009, he was without a drive. Along comes Brawn GP and he wins the championship outright that same year.

 

Of course there are teams and therefore team orders. There always has been. There are many drivers on the grid not through merit, but by what "other skills" they bring to the team. There are innumerable drivers who aren't on the F1 grid but are at least as fast, if not faster than many of the drivers who are. How come young Max is driving for Marussia? Grosjean? Gutierrez? Bottas? Nobody wondered why Senna lost his seat at Williams? I could go on. It has always been like this and undoubtedly always will be.

 

Of course it's not just about drivers. It's about engines, reliability, fuel efficiency, in fact, as I've already mentioned, it's about all manner of conflicting and contradictory interests. And, irrespective of whether you agree that it's doing a great job of it, it's about the spectacle.

 

And money.

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I think what we can all agree on is that you can't trust the Germans. One minute they are pretending to be nice and the next they are being snide on the track then before you know it they are all frog marching through your city and invading your homes.

 

In a nutschnell. Never take your eye off them.

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Hungarian Grand Prix 1989. A fiver to get in at the gate. All the free cigarettes you could eat courtesy of the comely Magyar Malboro lasses.

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I agree with people complaining about team orders and saying 'let them race', but like it or not the manufacturers make their money from the Constructors Championship, so team orders will always exist. Christian Horner wasn't just interested in 25 points for the winner, he was interested in 43 points for the 1 - 2, so team orders were used to protect that haul.

 

I've read people saying that Webber is a bad loser and the fact is that Vettel was quicker, but he was only quicker because Webber followed the pre-race plan and responded to the order to turn down the engine, preserve tyres and keep in station. Vettel thought he was above the team, chose to ignore the plan and team order, and pretty recklessly (especially down the back straight) chose to race Webber who by then was effectively a dead duck. Webber also had a healthy lead over Vettel but had the gap cut down by team pit stop strategy, something else that played into Vettels hands.

 

Every race Vettel acts like a spoilt petulant brat over team radio, this race it was "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way." Well if he was too slow then maybe he should have used race craft to get past him at this point, about half way through the race, before the last pit stop when he knew 'Multi 21' was going to come into effect. In reality, straight after that radio call Webber actually put in a fastest lap and increased the gap between himself and Vettel.

 

The guy is a grade A fucking tossbag.

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I thought team orders were banned when Barrichello was leading the entire race at Austria(?) I think circa 2003/4 and then Ferrari made him let Schumacher go past on the final straight and both were on the podium crying afterwards

 

Really can't be fucked with F1 anymore, havent watched a qualifying session in years as they are obsessed with changing the format so don't have a clue what is going on with all this bollocks about three sessions etc, normally watch the first few races then over the season watch it if I have nothing better to do on the day but not even bothered with these first two.

 

I remember Vettel being on top gear a couple of years ago and he seemed a decent lad, sounds like he acted a cock on sunday thoug

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To me Vettel seems like a bit of a spoilt brat who has got his way his whole life and when he doesn't he spits the dummy, however he is a brilliant driver who is better than Webber and like most of the best drivers he isn't against putting his car into dangerous position to win.

He's clearly in the wrong though, he admitted it, the team admitted it so how can anyone argue different.

 

[YOUTUBE]kkXYROv1RPs[/YOUTUBE]

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To me Vettel seems like a bit of a spoilt brat who has got his way his whole life and when he doesn't he spits the dummy' date=' however he is a brilliant driver who is better than Webber and like most of the best drivers he isn't against putting his car into dangerous position to win.

He's clearly in the wrong though, he admitted it, the team admitted it so how can anyone argue different.

 

<a href="

">YouTube Link</a>[/quote']

 

Bit slow there Rex, I've posted that vid in the thread already.

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Hungarian Grand Prix 1989. A fiver to get in at the gate. All the free cigarettes you could eat courtesy of the comely Magyar Malboro lasses.

 

oh, great race - remember it well.

 

One of Nigel's finest performances in a Ferrari.

 

[YOUTUBE]JiSTQiDdiJI[/YOUTUBE]

 

Team orders (or betrayal of them) caused the death of Gilles Villeneuve. Lest we not forget how it can fester into something quite dangerous.

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I thought team orders were banned, and I'm surprised at how blatant they're used by teams at present. This whole incident has put me off F1 to be honest, not into it if all drivers aren't racing.

 

Vettel's world titles have been devalued for me, I thought he won them because he was the best but now I'm not so sure. Maybe he won them because other drivers were held back?

 

Don't think I'll be watching anymore.

 

Nope, been allowed since last season.

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Nope' date=' been allowed since last season.[/quote']

 

Apparently so. I wasn't aware of it though, definitely the biggest factor in me not watching anymore.

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4 consecutive world championships at the age of 26 is some record. A man who divides opinion but is comparable to all the greats. Hats off, Seb.

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he is a very very good driver but without a doubt he has the best car on the grid. stick alonso in the red bull and vettell isn't winning 4 on the bounce. 

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Stick Alonso in the Red Bull and he'd win every fucking race next season.

 

They should handicap F1 like they do Horse Racing, would make it a bit more interesting than it is currently.

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I don't think it's as cut and dry as that. We can't underestimate the work Vettel has done in developing the various cars. He was brought through Red Bull's driver academy. Alonso is the more polished driver but Seb and RB is a perfect match and he deserves all of his success

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I'll prefer to watch a race where everybody's car is of the same speed and all. It's starting to get boring to see vettel leading from start to end, and Alonso trying to catch up with a car that's pretty much shit compared to the rb.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I think he is boss, however i think Christian Horner is some kind of wrong 'un. Vettel winning races every week is tedious though in the extreme, and part of the reason why i have not watched it much over the last couple of seasons, similar to Schumacher from 2000-2004,it's making things very dull indeed.

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They all need race in the same spec cars. Take swimming for example, you wouldn't tie bricks to one guys feet and stick a propeller on another guys.

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I'm caught in two minds re. Vettel winning all the time - it's funny watching the Pirelli/DRS generation fans go into meltdown on various motorsport message boards because a driver and team has had the bare faced cheek to do their job better than the others and win a lot of races. I'd love to invent a time machine, drop them in 1952 (or 1992, 2004, 1965, 1960, whatever) and watch their heads explode.

 

On the other hand, I can never underestimate the ability of the powers that be to react to such domination by introducing yet more silly rules to make it less "boring". Perhaps inverted grids, an in-race phone vote to give the public's favoured driver extra boost, a Mario Kart-style blue shell for the leader, a standard-spec engine that everyone must use that can randomly explode at some point in the race, the top two facing off after the race in a hexagonal shaped cage armed with balsa wood chairs with the winner declared the race winner, literally nothing would surprise me with that lot since the changes made in 2011.

 

Oh well, thank fuck for the World Endurance Championship. Webber knows.

 

/rant

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