Spurs could face police complaint because of fans' chant

[Manny]

I knew a dozen or so Spurs fans when I was a student. About half of them were Jewish (mostly from Wembley) - the others were from all over the South East (Kent, Essex etc). They all referred to themselves as "Yids." I sat in the away end of Villa Park with them once and chants of "Yids" and "Yid Army" were doing the rounds - but none of it was with any vitriol. It was celbratory, defiant.

 

I find this whole Black Lawyers condemnation of it absolutely bizarre. Maybe there's some anti-semites in amongst the Spurs fans, I don't know. But if there are, they're not anti-semitic because they shout "yids" every now and again.

[lifetime fan]

How many games will Suarez be banned for?

[ChrisM]

SBL repeats police threat | News

 

Spurs fans sent an open message of defiance to the SBL on Thursday night when they chanted "We'll sing what we want" and "Yid Army" throughout the club's 3-1 home win over Maribor in the Europa League.

 

Despite being a club with a traditionally large Jewish following, Tottenham fans often refer to themselves as "Yids" or the "Yid Army" in chants during the club's matches.

 

Although Spurs claim otherwise, the SBL say the phrase is anti-Semitic and they have vowed to complain to the police under the Public Order Act if supporters continue to use the chant beyond the November 20 deadline it has set.

 

The SBL had monitors at the north London ground who heard the chants and on Friday morning it reiterated its commitment to report any such action to the police should fans continue their actions.

 

"We are not going to let go on this," SBL chair Peter Herbert said.

 

"After November 20 there is a potential that people will get a criminal conviction. If they want to run that risk then fine.

 

"We are serious. We aren't in this for sensationalism. We think the vast majority of Tottenham fans are sensible and do not engage in anti-Semitism.

 

"It's a very small minority who obviously don't care about any offence.

 

"Their love of football is greater than their desire to deal with anti-Semitism."

 

Tottenham have refused to comment on the matter. The London club stick by the statement they released on Wednesday which read: "Our guiding principle in respect of the 'Y-word' is based on the point of law itself - the distinguishing factor is the intent with which it is used ie if it is used with the deliberate intention to cause offence. This has been the basis of prosecutions of fans of other teams to date.

 

"Our fans adopted the chant as a defence mechanism in order to own the term and thereby deflect anti-Semitic abuse. They do not use the term to others to cause any offence, they use it as a chant amongst themselves."

 

Herbert believes the club have been misguided over the issue and claims fans can be prosecuted regardless of whether the songs are intended to cause offence.

 

"Under Section Five of the Public Order Act it doesn't matter what the intent is of the individual or the crowd, if the words cause harassment, alarm, or distress to anyone watching then that is sufficient," Herbert said.

 

"If a crowd of men were walking down Tottenham High Road singing the Y-word causing offence they would be arrested. It doesn't make sense that they can make White Hart Lane a no-go area for law."

 

Herbert ridiculed Tottenham's statement and claimed the SBL has widespread support for its campaign from within the Jewish community.

 

"We have no doubt there will be complaints (to the police)," Herbert added.

 

"If the Met Police say they are going to look at prosecutions then there is a good chance it will stop.

 

"Tottenham's statement is indefensible. I think if you went to the United States, Canada or South Africa and you made a statement like that you would face ridicule and condemnation.

 

"It is a very sad day for English football when clubs feel they have to defend a term of abuse."

 

Herbert also accused the FA of a lack of interest in the Tottenham matter.

 

"This is an appalling abdication of responsibility by the FA," he said.

 

"It's a complete disgrace that they have stayed silent on this.

 

"There is an inertia from the FA over racism and anti-Semitism.

 

"You can't go and complain about racism and anti-Semitism in Serbia and then have it happening in your own back yard."

 

-------------

 

Judging by his stance on this then I'm guessing Herbert is also dead against black people reclaiming the 'n-word' too. It would be interesting to hear his thoughts (actually, no it wouldn't, the stupid prick).

[Trumo]

"Under Section Five of the Public Order Act it doesn't matter what the intent is of the individual or the crowd, if the words cause harassment, alarm, or distress to anyone watching then that is sufficient," Herbert said.

 

That counts you out then Herbert, doesn't it.

 

Whatever he says to the contrary, Herbert has seen the likes of Lord Ouseley and Piara Powar gain a slightly higher profile off the back of their public comments over the past year, and he sees an opportunity for himself to do the same.

[Chip Butty]

The worlds gone mad.

[Lee909]

Judging by his stance on this then I'm guessing Herbert is also dead against black people reclaiming the 'n-word' too. It would be interesting to hear his thoughts (actually' date=' no it wouldn't, the stupid prick).[/quote']

 

Don't worry

Tottenham fans are just taking the word back.

It worked for Porch Monkey

[Guest davelfc]

I await the arrest of several rap singers.

[Whelan]

I await the arrest of several rap singers.

 

Exactly, Snoop must be looking at life!

 

Which is typical as it always ends up being the Liverpool players fault doesn' it?

[col06]

what if the whole ground sung it can't arrest 40 odd thousand people can you ;)

[LFC64]

Exactly, Snoop must be looking at life!

 

Which is typical as it always ends up being the Liverpool players fault doesn' it?

 

Same for this rapper whatever his name is?

[LFC64]

I'm sure Alan Davies will be interviewed shortly telling us how North London and it's football followers have always been innately racist

[Baltar]

[YOUTUBE]iau-e6HfOg0[/YOUTUBE]

 

:dunno:

[Guest San Don]

That herbert of the black lawyers needs a fuckin slap. Despite what he says, he's just seeking publicity for himself and his organisation. His threat to complain to the bizzies is pathetic.

 

He needs fucking off.

[OOTer]

"Herbert also accused the FA of a lack of interest in the Tottenham matter, saying: "This is an appalling abdication of responsibility by the FA. It's a complete disgrace that they have stayed silent on this. There is an inertia from the FA over racism and anti-Semitism. You can't go and complain about racism and anti-Semitism in Serbia and then have it happening in your own back yard."

Press Association Sport is awaiting reply from the FA over Herbert's comments."

 

This for me is the only relevant thing from the Black Lawyers.

 

So, what if someone takes offence to the word 'Black'? Are they gonna dob themselves in? AF certainly took offence to that word, or was that the FA?

 

I'm mixed asian/white, a coloured guy. Apparently I'm not allowed to refer to myself as 'coloured' these days. WTF?

 

It's actually gotten to a point where I don't have a clue what racism is anymore, I thought I knew, once. It certainly isn't being referred to by your nationality or religion.

 

I personally don't think referring to someone as what they ARE is anything wrong either. Black, white, gay, jew, tosser, nice guy, blonde haired, big titted, etc.... are we trying to make life harder?

 

The FA and the media have lapped this up for their own personal gains. And when people do things like that they spiral out of control and have the potential to become monsters. No one has tackled the issue of racism as a separate entity, not confused by sporting rivalry and the culture of bad sportsmanship in football (in my opinion one of the very things that added passion to the British game that helped it become the monolith it is now with £200k weekly wages, international tv deals etc... digression...).

 

Johnny Barnes tried to start a reasoned debate but his voice was drowned out by sensationalist journalism guiding their readers to a common opinion on who was and wasn't a racist.

 

I'd love for someone to start a thread on racism. Just get everyone to say what they think racism is. Be interesting to see opinions. John Barnes said racism is an invention, in a way it is. But I also think there is no denying the differences between all people. Diversity and individualism should be celebrated. For me racism is about oppression, suppression of a person according to their skin colour. There's other isms for nationality and religion.

 

The problem with the debate opening up is that where does it now end? Is racism worse than discriminating by nationality or religion? Does that mean 'coloured' people need more protection from the bad things in the world than say, women or jews or Spanish people? Isn't that just inferring the 'coloured' people are in fact inferior to those groups? Surely a perverse form of racism in itself.

 

You can see what I'm getting at though. It's strange waters we're entering if you ask me. But then again, maybe it will all die down once the media decide the story has lost appeal.

 

Sorry if this is a bit of a rant. Just wanted to put my thoughts out there.

 

One last thing. Going back to the SBL and the whole self (racial) abuse. My mate said to me the other day "It's OK for them to use the word n*****", referring to popular R&B culture. I thought, whats more racist in that statement; the word 'n*****', or the word 'they'?

 

YNWA. If we apply that to everyone this discussion goes away.

 

PS. I why do I always get logged out mid rant? lol

[RedRazor]

The Society of Liverpool Lawyers has issued an appeal for everyone involved to calm down.

[Anubis]

Herbert is doing neither himself nor the SBL any favours here. There are many genuine battles to fight in racism, but by involving himself and the SBL in stupidity like this will ensure they lose credibility and find themselves alienated and at the fringe of any real debate to be had.

[kingofjustice]

Sorry Guys but the Society of Black Lawyers are RIGHT on this. Here is why:

 

Firstly 98% of Spurs fans ARE NOT Jewish, and living in North London I know a lot of Spurs fans and the Jewish ones I know do not sing "Yid Army" at all.

 

Jewish people don't refer to themselves as "Yids", so why would they sing that.

 

Spurs fans first started singing it in response to anti-semetic Arsenal chants in the 70's. The problem is that it has become a self fulfilling prophecy. The more they sing "Yid Army" the more other teams refer to them as "Yids", and so it goes on.

 

By doing this it creates an atmosphere that engenders anti -semetic chants.

Although I am a Liverpool fan I have lived in London for years, and having been to Chelsea in the past their fans positively breath anti-semetism when there is any mention of Tottenham.

 

Could you imagine Crystal Palace (who play in an area near to where a lot of black people live) referring to themselves as the "Nig Army".

 

Or Bradford City referring to themselves as the "Paki Army".

 

The F.A would not overlook that would they??

 

Best

KofJ

[Tommy Lawrence]

The Society of Liverpool Lawyers has issued an appeal for everyone involved to calm down.

 

:lol:

[Tom R]

I fucked a Jewish bird once.

She had THE hairiest fanny mankind has ever seen, I shit you not.

 

That's all I have to say about this important matter.

[Charles Penrose]

This Black Lawyer's Society are going to be a massive, massive problem.

 

You see, even problem wise these black fellas are expected to be 'massive'.

[Charles Penrose]

I fucked a Jewish bird once.

She had THE hairiest fanny mankind has ever seen, I shit you not.

 

That's all I have to say about this important matter.

 

So much for the Gaza strip eh?

[RedRazor]

Sorry Guys but the Society of Black Lawyers are RIGHT on this. Here is why:

 

Firstly 98% of Spurs fans ARE NOT Jewish, and living in North London I know a lot of Spurs fans and the Jewish ones I know do not sing "Yid Army" at all.

 

Jewish people don't refer to themselves as "Yids", so why would they sing that.

 

Spurs fans first started singing it in response to anti-semetic Arsenal chants in the 70's. The problem is that it has become a self fulfilling prophecy. The more they sing "Yid Army" the more other teams refer to them as "Yids", and so it goes on.

 

By doing this it creates an atmosphere that engenders anti -semetic chants.

Although I am a Liverpool fan I have lived in London for years, and having been to Chelsea in the past their fans positively breath anti-semetism when there is any mention of Tottenham.

 

Could you imagine Crystal Palace (who play in an area near to where a lot of black people live) referring to themselves as the "Nig Army".Or Bradford City referring to themselves as the "Paki Army".

 

The F.A would not overlook that would they??

 

Best

KofJ

 

If the nationalised Nigerian gas industry can call themselves Nig Gas then I wouldn't rule anything out.

 

Strangely I do remember Nasser Hussein referring to his opponents as "the Paki boys" when he was England captain. The ECB never did anything but had it been Gower or Gooch I am sure they would have responded differently.

[Nunavut Patrick]

 

'Yids? Yids? I think we have case here, Mr Kramer.'

[Guest davelfc]

As this troubled year draws to a close we may have finally found a hero.

 

Come on down Peter Herbert of the Society of Black Lawyers, who, not content with reporting referee Mark Clattenburg to the police for allegedly using a racist term he didn’t hear him use, has now given Spurs fans a fortnight’s notice to stop referring to themselves as the “Yid Army” or he’ll demand that the police press charges of racism. 'We are not going to let go on this': SBL repeat threat to report Tottenham fans to police over 'anti-Semitic' chants

 

Let me clarify that: A man with no known connection to football, who speaks for a society which exists solely of black members, is accusing a mass of multi-cultural people who embrace the word Yid to disempower rivals chanting anti-Semitic slurs, of being racist.

 

Thank-you Mr Herbert. Finally we’ve found someone who proves this current obsession with seeking out racism in every corner of the game, even in areas it doesn’t exist, is starting to become offensive in itself.

 

That English football’s genuine attempt to do what no other country is doing, and take a stand against bigotry and prejudice, is allowing agenda-driven outsiders to promote the notion that our game is a unique pit of racism.

 

I can’t tell you where Herbert’s unprompted drive to paint Spurs fans as racists comes from. All I know is it would carry far more weight if he were Jewish, or had a testimony from a Jewish Spurs fan who felt he could no longer visit White Hart Lane.

 

I also know that his society has come to sudden prominence after some black players, disillusioned with the Kick It Out campaign, are talking about forming a breakaway union. And any black players union would obviously need legal and organisational guidance wouldn’t it?

 

I also know the Yid Arny identity was forged years ago to neuter neo-Nazi chants against Spurs for being located in one of the biggest Jewish communities outside Israel.

 

Which is why the club (whose chairman Daniel Levy is Jewish) have steadfastly defended their fans, pointing out that racism is all about an intent to offend, and there is none.

 

Certain Jewish fans, like David Baddiel, wish Spurs would drop the Yid Army mantle, because it encourages moronic followers of other clubs to be anti-Semitic. And he may have a point. But surely it’s the fans making the gassing noises whom police should be arresting?

 

It’s like saying Celtic should be made to drop their overtly-Catholic songs because they make some Rangers fans retaliate about being “up to their knees in Fenian blood.”

 

Or that Wrexham fans who call themselves “sheep sha****s” to disempower rival slurs, should be nicked for inciting anti-Welsh racism.

 

Why not question Patrice Evra over that You Tube clip which shows him calling Jimmy-Floyd Hasselbaink a “motherf***ing n*****.” Where would the head of the Society of Black Lawyers start with that one?

 

Thankfully Piara Power of Football Against Racism in Europe has dismissed Herbert as “naive” and the Met Police have taken one look at his arrest ultimatum and politely told him where to go.

 

I’d like to suggest where. With that 13-year-old Millwall fan who the club is sending on an awareness programme .

 

To be educated in the true meaning of racism.

 

Brian Reade column on Peter Herbert and the 'Y' word, Fernando Torres, Fergie's statue, Podolski's booking, David Beckham and much more - Brian Reade - Mirror Online

[Bjornebye]

Couple of cracking tags there

 

It's fucking bollocks. Society is becoming so fucking PC we may as well become Amish.