Do we have the players to challenge for the league?

[WeAreTheBest]

Whether we are good enough to challenge or not we really shouldn't be level with shite like Everton and Portsmouth and behind City at this stage of the season. So thats a bit of a concern.

 

It's a hard question to answer really. On one hand I think our first 11 when fit is as good as anyones but our squad isn't as strong as Utd's. But then you win this League by beating the crap so why cant we challenge, forgetting Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal we have far better players than the rest. Despite what the media tell everyone this League isn't won on the meetings between the "big 4". Arsenal had the best record of the 4 last season and finished 4th.

[Brownie]

Yes

 

Get voting then?!!

[Brownie]

Whether we are good enough to challenge or not we really shouldn't be level with shite like Everton and Portsmouth and behind City at this stage of the season. So thats a bit of a concern.

 

It's a hard question to answer really. On one hand I think our first 11 when fit is as good as anyones but our squad isn't as strong as Utd's. But then you win this League by beating the crap so why cant we challenge, forgetting Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal we have far better players than the rest.

 

I totally agree WATB, and I don't see why you give me so much vitriol about this? I'm not calling for anyones head, i'm just getitng involved in some good debating. Isn't that what this place is for?

[hamstrung]

Get voting then?!!

 

OK then!

[WeAreTheBest]

I totally agree WATB, and I don't see why you give me so much vitriol about this? I'm not calling for anyones head, i'm just getitng involved in some good debating. Isn't that what this place is for?

 

I think you go overboard sometimes, not in the criticism itself but going on about it so many times. Then again it's only because you care so I'm maybe being to harsh. Apologies.

[Bob]

its a pretty simle question to answer in my view. We have the players to challenge, just probably not to win it. We will finish within about 6-7 points of the winners this season i reckon, and thats a challenge, but we need some big improvments and a new belief against the other top teams if we are going to win it.

[Brownie]

I think you go overboard sometimes, not in the criticism itself but going on about it so many times. Then again it's only because you care so I'm maybe being to harsh. Apologies.

 

No worries.

 

I suppose it works both ways really doesn't it? When we're playing well and banging them in, everyone posts constantly about how good we are etc, which is great. You have to have it both ways though - when things aren't going well, people are entitled to ask why.

[Bob]

I totally agree WATB, and I don't see why you give me so much vitriol about this? I'm not calling for anyones head, i'm just getitng involved in some good debating. Isn't that what this place is for?

 

its wierd. I actually think our squad is stronger than uniteds player for player, and i think the first x1 is as good, i just think they are a better team and i think it stems a lot from belief. Teams come to anfield thinking they can snatch something, they go there hoping they might.

 

big teams come here and we seem so eager and anxious because we know we have to win, whereas for the other big teams it seems like just another game and they can come into it with the same approach and style.

[aws]

I think our squad is strong enough to challenge but it's not as strong overall as chelsea or the mancs. It's stronger than arsenal but they have more quality in their first choice team.

 

So to challenge we need to have a bit of luck with injuries and to nick a few games when things aren't going well. Unfortunately neither has happened for us so far and we're now adrift.

 

If we can get agger, alonso and pennant fully fit and on form for the second half of the season then we can still challenge.

[Aaron Miller]

challenge yes, win no.

[robslappa]

I think we had a strong enough squad to at least challenge for a couple of years.

 

We've just had far too many games over the last couple of years like Reading away, where players are played out of position in formations they're not used to and the performance has suffered.

[Mr T]

I'm not placing Arsenal on a pedestal, I just took exception to the fact that they were discounted from the comparisons of resources with our rivals. They are a rival of ours and have similar recources, so it's only right they are used for comparison.

 

Over the last three/four years we have a similar record to them although I would say we have done slightly better. They are now in a position to challenge for the league though, whereas we aren't, and I think it's only fair to speculate why that's the case.

 

I use them as an example because they have similar resources and are challenging. We have better players IMO but aren't.

 

What's the point of having major resources when you 'rest' your big signing and we drop points because of it? What do resources have to do with losing to Reading and failing to beat Birmingham and a poor Tottenham side at home?

 

There's much more to it than money, and that's my point in relation to the debate with Dirk.

 

Arsenal have players who are comfortable on the ball all over the park which we don't. Usually you have to pay through the nose for these but Wenger has an exceptional transfer record and manages to bring them in. I still believe they will fall away though throughout the season. I think we will be within 10 points of the league this year, the Mancs will win it. Rafa has made mistakes this year yes but that doesn't mean we would have challenged with the squad we have. We simply don't have the quality in the right areas, with money and time this will come.

[derykw]

I voted no. Torres apart the strikers aren`t good enough, Crouch is worth keeping as 3rd choice Voronin is decent but no more and the sooner Kuyt is sold the better. Not enough quality on the flanks, Pennant has improved but isnt top drawer and doesnt score enough, Kewell has the ability but not the fitness anymore and Yossi isnt a winger though I like him a lot. We desperately need a much better left back, Arbeloa is our best and he`s a right back which says it all really. A centre back with pace and a decent pass on him would also be nice.

[spider-neil]

Arsenal have players who are comfortable on the ball all over the park which we don't. Usually you have to pay through the nose for these but Wenger has an exceptional transfer record and manages to bring them in. I still believe they will fall away though throughout the season. I think we will be within 10 points of the league this year, the Mancs will win it. Rafa has made mistakes this year yes but that doesn't mean we would have challenged with the squad we have. We simply don't have the quality in the right areas, with money and time this will come.

 

you don't or shouldn't have to pay through the nose for players that are comfortable on the ball, passing should be a prerequisite for any competant footballer, TRAINING should help team mates pass when pressured on the ball I personally think the players are encouraged to hit it long to find torres as quickly as possible.

[Neil G]

Yes we do.

 

If we could get 82 points in 2005/06 after a poor start, then we're entitled to believe that we can better that total by 10 points with the far superior squad that we have now, even allowing for the fact that we were very lucky with injuries that season.

 

That's not to say that I don't want the squad to be strengthened even further. Sometimes I feel that when you post on here that the squad is good enough to challenge, people think you're saying Rafa shouldn't be given any more money to spend.

[spider-neil]

'next year' - the liverpool credo

next piece of the puzzle...

just a few more players and we'll be there...

we'll be saying that from now until doomsday, there isn't a perfect team and there comes a stage where you have to look at the players you have and push them past the finish line, that's where excellent management comes in.

this is no disrespect to arsenal but I'm not impressed by them as individuals a couple of players apart its how they perfrom as a team that is making them perform at such a great level.

 

basically imho we have the players to challenge, look at the players we have in defense, midfield and upfront for petes sake we are basically underachieving because players are crusing, 'hey, not MY job'.

we have defenders that think its fine to launch it long all game

we have fullbacks with good attacking ability that sometimes REFUSE to get forwards which in turn makes our wide players look absolute SHITE because they are double teamed with no decoys to drag opposition defenders away (hey its a defenders job to defend so who cares), we have wide midfielders that are happy to go game after game after game without getting on the scoresheet (hey a midfielders job is to create so who cares) and we have strikers that run all over the pitch and play almost the enitire game with their back to goal deeper than some midfielders.

 

for me the difference between manu and liverpool is their team is filled with players hellbent on getting the ball in the back of the net, they have fullbacks that are more like wingers and wingers that are more like strikers, too many passergers in our team, relying on the brilliance on others to earn liverpool the points.

 

so in closing its not personnel its attutide if half the team had shown babel's desire to score we'd have won that game at a canter but too many people hid and passed the buck. we have the players to challenge we don't have players to go the whole way and actually win it because they don't 'really' want it.

[Neil G]

you don't or shouldn't have to pay through the nose for players that are comfortable on the ball, passing should be a prerequisite for any competant footballer, TRAINING should help team mates pass when pressured on the ball I personally think the players are encouraged to hit it long to find torres as quickly as possible.

 

I don't agree with your analysis of the tactics, but I agree that simple control and passing isn't the preserve of a gifted elite of expensive footballers. Neither is the ability to run into space to make yourself available to collect a pass. These things can be improved through coaching to make them second nature.

 

Our movement off the ball is as often as not woeful. I made the comparison with Reading on here last season - their players are nowhere near as technically gifted as ours, and as a side they don't have any more pace overall than we do. And yet when their players have the ball they are usually more likely than ours to have at least one team-mate in a good position to pass to, to know where those team-mates are and to pick the right ball. In short, as a team they look more comfortable in possession than we do.

[StevieH]

Have we got the players to challenge for the title - yes

 

Have we got the players & the manager to win it ?????

[AL66GOLF]

For starters I felt very disappointed after yesterdays game because we never really threathened the United Goal in the 2nd half. nbo getting crosses in from byline, Babel only ran at Brown once etc.

As regards new players we need at least one full back who can get forward as well as defend, another wide midfileder to take on full backs although Babel can develop into top class player as he has the pace and skill.

Ideally we also require a 2nd striker because as willing as Kuyt and Voronin are they have not got the class required. Crouch can be 3rd or 4th choice striker.

Most importantly is that Rafa needs to be a little less cautious and let players play. e.g. 2nd half yesterday Gerrard and Mascherano sat pretty deep all day and so gave Ferdinand and Vidic an easy day with only Torres and Kuyt to mark and most crosses from half way line!.

[Rashid]

It is simple really.

 

How can the best manager in Spain, one that ended the dominane of Barca and Real by winning the league title in 2 of 3 seasons suddenly not be able to get the best out of a team throughout the season?

 

Secondly, how can a team whose only signing above £12M is Fernando Torres compete with teams like Chelsea and Man United who have several players over £25M and paid £17M each (£1m less than Torres) on two untried young players only this summer?

 

We are operating in a different league.

 

Whilst I do think that 25% of the blame must go to Rafa as he as bought too many squad players and failed to get in top quality attacking players (bar Torres) if he had the budget he may well have done.

 

So in short, whether it is due to Rafa not being too great in the transfer market, or whether it is due to budget, we don't have the players to win the league - no way.

[Original202]

We have the players, but I don't think our tactics or style of play help them. And I don't think enough of our players are suited to being rotated so regularly.

 

There is a lot of dross in the squad, but there's enough there to take points off the majority of sides. Forget the other top sides in the top 4-5 and ask yourself if out current crop of players is good enough to beat the other 15 twice a season. They should be, and that would give us 90 points. It's never that black and white of course, but there should be enough there.

[Brownie]

It is simple really.

 

How can the best manager in Spain, one that ended the dominane of Barca and Real by winning the league title in 2 of 3 seasons suddenly not be able to get the best out of a team throughout the season?

 

Secondly, how can a team whose only signing above £12M is Fernando Torres compete with teams like Chelsea and Man United who have several players over £25M and paid £17M each (£1m less than Torres) on two untried young players only this summer?

 

We are operating in a different league.

 

Whilst I do think that 25% of the blame must go to Rafa as he as bought too many squad players and failed to get in top quality attacking players (bar Torres) if he had the budget he may well have done.

 

So in short, whether it is due to Rafa not being too great in the transfer market, or whether it is due to budget, we don't have the players to win the league - no way.

 

It's not about winning the league, Rashid. With the players we have, do you think it's out of the question to expect a challenge?

[StevieH]

We have the players, but I don't think our tactics or style of play help them. And I don't think enough of our players are suited to being rotated so regularly.

 

There is a lot of dross in the squad, but there's enough there to take points off the majority of sides. Forget the other top sides in the top 4-5 and ask yourself if out current crop of players is good enough to beat the other 15 twice a season. They should be, and that would give us 90 points. It's never that black and white of course, but there should be enough there.

 

I agree with the comments about tactics & rotation. If Rafa concentrated on selecting a team each week from a pool of 16-17 players ten we wouldn't slip up at places like Reading or against teams like Birmingham at home.

[Original202]

How can the best manager in Spain, one that ended the dominane of Barca and Real by winning the league title in 2 of 3 seasons suddenly not be able to get the best out of a team throughout the season?

 

Bit of a myth this. Deportivo won La Liga before Valencia so you argue they broke the stranglehold first. And between the two title wins Valenica finished 5th with a mere 60 points. What was so great about Rafa's Valencia in that season?

[StevieH]

Bit of a myth this. Deportivo won La Liga before Valencia so you argue they broke the stranglehold first. And between the two title wins Valenica finished 5th with a mere 60 points. What was so great about Rafa's Valencia in that season?

 

Rafa doesn't convince me at all in the premiership. In Europe he has no peers and is tactically excellent, but in the league we are still making the same mistakes that we made in his 1st season. We are not getting significantly closer to even challenging for the title. Rafa is a very inteligent man & a superb coach and tactician, but football is a simple game & he overcomplicates matters too much.