Making A Murderer

[Joe Strummer]

Just watching the final episode now. Just thinking did no-one think to do a polygraph test? While not admissible or 100% accurate it surely would have added weight to either case.

[Longview1982]

Was he the Doc Brown-esque landlord guy? He was never tried, was he?

 

He was the sole focus of the police investigation and they were throwing the kitchen sink at him to try and make him confess as they were convinced he was the guilty man - all of this was conducted in the full glare of the national media where his entire life, character and identity was irrevocably destroyed and there was a wholesale assumption of guilt simply for being charged and long before he would ever get any chance to put up any defence.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Fortunately, the police got an anonymous tip off about the actual murderer - who they'd cleared of involvement to go after Jefferies - and that was a game-changer.

 

And all of that happened to a man who wasn't involved in any of the previous convictions, grudges and civil lawsuits with the authorities that Avery had as a background.

 

There are plenty of people in the UK who've been fitted up with testimony and evidence being created and/or tailored to allow police to get the outcome they wanted. Jefferies was treated disgracefully, but in some ways he was much more fortunate than many others who find themselves falsely accused. 

[Longview1982]

I wouldn't place too much store by what he said to her relatives at his sentencing.  Basic humanity would tell someone that whether they committed the crime or not, the victim's family will have been to hell and back, and he didn't apologise to them on behalf of himself, he said he obviously felt sorry for them. 

 

When the lady who's rape saw him sent down for 18 years apologised to him upon his release, didn't he just tell her she had nothing to say sorry for and he knew she herself had suffered a terrible ordeal?  So it was in keeping for him to be surprisingly sympathetic and matter-of-fact.

 

No idea if he did it or not, he was obviously framed but then the documentary almost certainly went too far the other way in wanting to redress the balance for that.  My gut instinct is that he's innocent to be honest, but who knows.  I go with Strang, I hope he is guilty, as if he's not and has said and done the things he has while being put through that process, such as what he said about her relatives at the exact moment his life was being ruthlessly flushed down the toilet, then that is truly heartbreaking.

 

Regarding the comments from Strang at the round table gathering of Avery's various representatives at the very end of the series, even Strang doesn't rule out the possibility that Avery may actually be guilty and his motivation seems to be that the misconduct of the prosecuting agencies should clearly amount to reasonable doubt rather than any grand claim that Avery is definitely innocent. Tellingly, he seems much more genuinely distressed by what happens to Brendan Dassey.  

 

I couldn't agree more with that last Strang quote you mention. If it does turn out like the first, and there is another killer that is found at a later date, then it's something to genuinely despair over.

[Mendoza]

Currently working my way through the Paradise Lost Trilogy. This fucking loon....

 

[Longview1982]

WHERE THE FUCK ARE FASSBENDER'S EYEBROWS?? He looks constantly stunned.

 

If I'd ever played a game of Pictionary and had been asked to draw "corrupt FBI cunt" - Fassbender would have been the picture I came up with even if I'd never seen this series. 

[Longview1982]

Yeah, I wondered why he didn't take the stand as well. Surely if your innocent, you'd want to tell everybody?

 

Cross examination in courtroom trials is nothing to do with establishing the facts or the truth. It's about lawyers getting the poor cunt in the box to give them what they want to hear by whatever horrible means possible.

 

They could put me on trial next week for the assassination of John F Kennedy and, despite not even being alive at the time, I still wouldn't be 100% confident of getting off with it.

[Ted]

Dunno about Fassbender's brows, but the other cunt doing an impression of 2002 Ronaldo wants slapping.

[Josef Svejk]

Currently working my way through the Paradise Lost Trilogy. This fucking loon....

 

 

Great trilogy. I assume you're watching the second film, so I'll say no more...

[Ted]

Great trilogy. I assume you're watching the second film, so I'll say no more...

 

Just started this now. Bit heavy an opening, like.

[Josef Svejk]

Just started this now. Bit heavy an opening, like.

 

You can always choose the easy option:

 

[VladimirIlyich]

You can always choose the easy option:

 

This was the one I watched as I didnt want to go through all the preliminary stuff when it was all here,and the current stuff too.

[VladimirIlyich]

I wouldn't place too much store by what he said to her relatives at his sentencing. Basic humanity would tell someone that whether they committed the crime or not, the victim's family will have been to hell and back, and he didn't apologise to them on behalf of himself, he said he obviously felt sorry for them.

 

When the lady who's rape saw him sent down for 18 years apologised to him upon his release, didn't he just tell her she had nothing to say sorry for and he knew she herself had suffered a terrible ordeal? So it was in keeping for him to be surprisingly sympathetic and matter-of-fact.

 

No idea if he did it or not, he was obviously framed but then the documentary almost certainly went too far the other way in wanting to redress the balance for that. My gut instinct is that he's innocent to be honest, but who knows. I go with Strang, I hope he is guilty, as if he's not and has said and done the things he has while being put through that process, such as what he said about her relatives at the exact moment his life was being ruthlessly flushed down the toilet, then that is truly heartbreaking.

I dont think this is too relevant,personally.

I think we have to realise that the educational level of the defendants and most of their families are way below pretty much everybody on here,even those of us who never went into further education of any sort.

I think this is one of the main reasons its been so easy to convict people with little means on the basis of some of the flimsiest evidence on record.

I'm almost certain that had the Avery family been a family of at least semi academics or long serving blue collar workers then the case would have either never gone near them or had to have been so watertight that they'd still have the case open now and be reviewing evidence.

[Dr Nowt]

I dont think this is too relevant,personally.

I think we have to realise that the educational level of the defendants and most of their families are way below pretty much everybody on here,even those of us who never went into further education of any sort.

I think this is one of the main reasons its been so easy to convict people with little means on the basis of some of the flimsiest evidence on record.

I'm almost certain that had the Avery family been a family of at least semi academics or long serving blue collar workers then the case would have either never gone near them or had to have been so watertight that they'd still have the case open now and be reviewing evidence.

Don't see how that response is related to what I posted, to be honest. His evident lack of education, IQ, ability to articulate himself, etc, is hardly going to have escaped anyone's notice.

 

You don't need any of those things to be a human being and recognise someone else is suffering though. We've no way of knowing if he was just doing that, or it was more about admitting guilt. As he had reacted that way previously when definitely innocent, it's relevant to point it out as an option.

[Bob]

I don't think you could look at any of his behaviour and say it suggests he's innocent it guilty. Partly because the context is controlled by the editing process and partly because he is of below average intelligence and could quite possibly lack some of the social skills that would be necessary to judge him in this way.

[Em City]

Did anyone pick up on how much more eloquent Brendan became? I was shocked at how fluidly he talked on the stand and how he was laughing with his attorneys at the hearing for a retrial.

 

It was almost as if being in prison where he was forced to interact with other people, albeit criminals and outcasts, substantially improved his social skills after leaving the cloistered world of the Avery property.

[Em City]

Also, Ken Kratz is a cunt of galactic proportions. His arrogance irked me almost as much as his weird whisper voice creeped me out. Not surprised about the sexting scandal, just like Danczuk you can tell the wrong 'uns from a mile away and he's definitely in that category.

 

One of the worst images of the series for me was seeing Avery being put into the car for prison by that toad Colburn. I can only imagine how despairing it must be for a man of authority to so blatantly stitch you up and then cart you off to rot away the rest of your life.

[Mook]

See the girl who was murdered, I've not read through the whole thread but her Ex looked dodgy as fuck in the stand, I've never seen someone look so much like they're lying in my life.

 

Other than that, I've found it a bit boring, I like the music at the start but it's American so it's probably all made up anyway.

 

Also, remind me never to go to Manitowoc, I would spend my entire time there pissing myself at their hilarious accents, which were clearly a joke that has got completely out of hand.

[Bob]

Did anyone pick up on how much more eloquent Brendan became? I was shocked at how fluidly he talked on the stand and how he was laughing with his attorneys at the hearing for a retrial.

 

It was almost as if being in prison where he was forced to interact with other people, albeit criminals and outcasts, substantially improved his social skills after leaving the cloistered world of the Avery property.

Probably helped that he was 3 years further into his education, too, but you're right.

[VladimirIlyich]

Don't see how that response is related to what I posted, to be honest. His evident lack of education, IQ, ability to articulate himself, etc, is hardly going to have escaped anyone's notice.

 

You don't need any of those things to be a human being and recognise someone else is suffering though. We've no way of knowing if he was just doing that, or it was more about admitting guilt. As he had reacted that way previously when definitely innocent, it's relevant to point it out as an option.

Bob's reply is better than mine in regards to this.

[Scott_M]

Also, remind me never to go to Manitowoc, I would spend my entire time there pissing myself at their hilarious accents, which were clearly a joke that has got completely out of hand.

Yarp. Boardering of Fargo accents.

[VladimirIlyich]

I dont think this is too relevant,personally.

I think we have to realise that the educational level of the defendants and most of their families are way below pretty much everybody on here,even those of us who never went into further education of any sort.

I think this is one of the main reasons its been so easy to convict people with little means on the basis of some of the flimsiest evidence on record.

I'm almost certain that had the Avery family been a family of at least semi academics or long serving blue collar workers then the case would have either never gone near them or had to have been so watertight that they'd still have the case open now and be reviewing evidence.

I'd also like to add that Avery has developed some animosity towards the family due to their,or sons,many appearances on tv backing the Police 100% and he may be innocent and knows this?

I cant image the animosity I'd feel about being wrongly imprisoned for 18 years and maybe (innocently?) for the rest of your life.

I'd be a bit miffed to put it mildly.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Yarp. Boardering of Fargo accents.

 

Or South Park Canadian guy.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Gripped and outraged in equal measure. Ultimately though, I found Making A Murderer

just too frustrating, sad and depressing.

 

[Spy Bee]

See the girl who was murdered, I've not read through the whole thread but her Ex looked dodgy as fuck in the stand, I've never seen someone look so much like they're lying in my life.

 

Other than that, I've found it a bit boring, I like the music at the start but it's American so it's probably all made up anyway.

 

Also, remind me never to go to Manitowoc, I would spend my entire time there pissing myself at their hilarious accents, which were clearly a joke that has got completely out of hand.

I kept thinking Game of Thrones was coming on.

[Crazy Dave]

What was the deal with Colburn calling in the license plate of the girl's car? It sounded like he had it right in front of him. What was his excuse?

 

Dodgy as fuck.