FSG are not shit

[JustTosh]

We have been insanely wasteful, and that's what we have been trying to avoid under Klopp. He has the confidence that he can do well without having to add 'ok' players. We are waiting for Keita, presumably waiting for VVD, waiting for Lemar. Yes, we need to get players in now but I like having a manager that feels safe enough in his job that he isn't willing to spend many 10s if millions on players who are a slight improvement over the ones we have, but that we will be trying to sell come deadline day in a couple of years. We want to build something, that's obvious.

Exactly. We’ve tried the other approach for 25+ years now. It’s about time we do this right. Brick by brick,  get the targets you want or none at all. That’s how we used to do it long time ago. it’s how fergie did it for a couple of decades. It’s the only way.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

CHINA SELLS LIVERPOOL.

 

BEST DEAL FOR CLUB AND CITY

[dickie mint]

No, that's just a myth people like yourself try and perpetuate.

 

The £175m war chest is still under lock and key Jimbo,it must be at the bottom of the Mersey with the the Mersy pirate mate.

[Iceman]

But, but, but, next season. I mean January. But there's no value. Shit. 

[Dave D]

He hasn't mate, its there in the outgoings.

 

In incredibly simple terms, it seems to mean they've spent 333mill of their own money (initial outlay and spends since then, roughly) and now they value the club at 1billion. Which is a tidy profit.

 

Rich people getting richer like they do. Make of it what you will. I've decided its pointless worrying about it and fully intend to concentrate on whats happening on the pitch.

 

Sums it up really.

 

They arent endangering the club or bleeding it dry like the two cowboys. Stadium has been improved, team is getting better (albeit at a slower pace than the billionaires) and we have a top manager who seems to be able to attract players with his stature.

 

We're not in a bad place all in all and all without crippling the club with debt or filling the squad with mediocre big earners 

[jimmycase]

The £175m war chest is still under lock and key Jimbo,it must be at the bottom of the Mersey with the the Mersy pirate mate.

 

Please produce this statement from LFC that there was a "£175m warchest" for transfers and not that spouted by the Echo or James Pearce.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Please produce this statement from LFC that there was a "£175m warchest" for transfers and not that spouted by the Echo or James Pearce.

Aye Jimmy what Pearcey says is gospel lad.

[ngogswilly]

James "Inside man" Pearce aint to be trifled with

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

James prefers the winter window, Pearce on earth good will to man

[The Woolster]

Is there a reason you exclude money raised from transfers in your calculations?

Genuinely just curious.

 

As The General said, I included it in the outgoings.

 

The reason that I did it this way are twofold, first is that from an accounting basis, fees from transfers are not classified as revenue, the 2nd, and most pertinent, is because that is how I have my spreadsheet set up so it was easier...

[The Woolster]

As of the last available financial accounts (2016), they have not taken a penny out in the form of dividends. They have put cash in, in the form of shareholder loans, some of which was converted to equity, some of which got repaid. Those loans, other than the stadium loans, carried zero interest. The stadium loan is paying something like 1.5% from memory, which is not very much at all.

 

If only looking at full financial years that they've been here, from year end 2012 to 2016, Total revenues were £1,230m. This excludes money received for transfers

 

Over the same period, wages were £758, other cash expenses (cost of sales, admin costs, paying of sacked management) were £297m , there has been a net cash outlfow on transfers (cash spent and received) of £208m. Add all that up and you get £1,263m spent.

 

You pissed off?

 

Realised I forgot capital expenditures, which is the general upkeep of buildings as well as the Main Stand redevelopment. Over this period, capex was £109m. Also didn't include interest paid on debt, which was another £15m.

 

So, £157m difference between what came in and what has been spent.

 

This was paid for with shareholder loans, £69m of which was converted into equity.

[Hades]

They bought the club undervalued and have spent fuck all relative to the promises and the capital growth. That's all you need to know.

[Herp McDerp]

They bought the club undervalued and have spent fuck all relative to the promises and the capital growth. That's all you need to know.

 

They saved us you twat, show some gratitude eh. Things could be like sooooo much worse.

[The Woolster]

They always told us that the club would be self sufficient. They lied, they've actually put money in

[Hades]

They always told us that the club would be self sufficient. They lied, they've actually put money in

A club that was performing way below its level needed a significant capital investment to get up to standards. They broke promises.

[Hades]

It's like the Glazers all over again. They had the best manager in the world covering up their flaws and we are lucky enough to be in a similar position with Klopp covering FSG's arses.

[The Woolster]

A club that was performing way below its level needed a significant capital investment to get up to standards. They broke promises.

 

£40m a year up to last summer.

 

What are the actual promises they made which they have broken?

[Iceman]

Stadium (cough) (cough) yeah let's pretend we're all happy with a stand. 

[The Woolster]

It's like the Glazers all over again. They had the best manager in the world covering up their flaws and we are lucky enough to be in a similar position with Klopp covering FSG's arses.

 

The Glazers paid for Utd with hundreds of Millions of debt which they put on Utd, then used Utds cash flows to pay for that debt and to make dividends to themselves.

 

FSG have paid debt off.

[Russ Atmosphere]

Emerging to face the throng of reporters, John W Henry, the new owner, said: “We’re here to win and we’ll do whatever it takes.”

[The Woolster]

Stadium (cough) (cough) yeah let's pretend we're all happy with a stand. 

 

What promise about the stadium has been broken?

[Hades]

£40m a year up to last summer.

 

What are the actual promises they made which they have broken?

The next step in the statistician's obfuscating argument arsenal. Deny all context and act completely puzzled that people can't recognise the pure objectivity of their numbers.

[Iceman]

The Glazers paid for Utd with hundreds of Millions of debt which they put on Utd, then used Utds cash flows to pay for that debt and to make dividends to themselves.

 

FSG have paid debt off.

 

That effectively means FSG will only get that money back should they ever sell the club and wish to take it, which they say have no intention of doing in the long term.

 

(tries to stifle laughter) 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Stadium (cough) (cough) yeah let's pretend we're all happy with a stand.

Before they decided to stay at Anfield, they wanted a new stadium; it made more sense from a financial perspective for them to build a new stadium. Fans wanted to stay at anfield. I know this because not only were there polls done by fan organisations, but I was in the minority arguing for a new stadium rather than staying at anfield. It took these guys to come in and actually do what the fans wanted. Now they're getting stick for not building a new stadium? Seems a bit opportunistic.

 

They're made mistakes, for sure. I always say they do plenty enough wrong for people not to have to create things.

[Iceman]

I'm not arguing against your right to be happy with one stand. Personally I think we could do a little bit better. I have no confidence they will build anything more before they push off.