FSG are not shit

[ngogswilly]

Think its already been established hasnt it that weve made a small payment akin to a deposit?

[Rotpeter]

But we have paid probably £5m plus up front to land the deal so it's probably fair to count that bit as this year's spending.

In my defence, I've always been a big fan of accrual vs. cash accounting.  Can't stand those cash accounting heathens!

[G Richards]

Woolster - repped for post above.

 

Great info, concise enough for those who don't want to wade through spreadsheets, but thorough enough to show the broad sweep of what has happened financially during their tenure. It shows the owners as being reasonable in that they have done what they said they would do, by and large. Nice to see the figures from someone knowledgeable to prove the point.

 

There's no need for everyone to be overjoyed happy-clappers, but hopefully the balance in here will shift a little, as there's a lot of misinformed sniping going on.

 

I've no doubt FSG will get a massive payday when they sell. At present that would be something like 4x outlay. Good for them. Lucky buggers. But the amount of sniping at them seems a bit overboard, especially based on the figures you've put up. Thanks.

[The Woolster]

Cheers G

 

Of course we don't have last season's accounts yet, but we know we didn't spend much in terms of transfers, and there was a big increase in revenues. This would have lead to a big increase in cash, which is why we had money to spend this summer. Unfortunately we didn't get to spend it all, but I put that down to a combination of Klopp and other clubs not doing business with us, not on FSG.

 

Personally, I hope that FSG put some of that spare cash towards redeveloping the ARE, I don't think it all needs to go on the playing staff. I think there's a decent chance they will, we will see.

[Walter Sobchak]

At the start of summer I wanted a big window. Without getting too ridiculous, as we can all add more and more to our lists, I had in mind five players coming in, with three of them going into the first team and the other two adding to the squad. With all the money sloshing around the game I also expected us to break our transfer record, or thereabouts, three times. With regard to outgoing, I expected us to sell a few players and generate some cash, but I didn't think we'd sell anyone we didn't want to.

 

So, how did we do?

 

Outgoing:

Assuming Coutinho stays today, outgoing not bad at all.

Sakho sold. Makes sense given the situation with Klopp.

Lucas sold - well loved, but can't begrudge him playing football.

Stewart sold - good business, as he was on the outside edges of the squad and his spot was needed for other players coming through.

Markovic should have been sold so that was a miss.

Origi out on loan makes sense, as with the attacking riches we now have he needs playing time to show he has a future here, or he will be sold.

 

Incoming:

Not bad.

Salah the best of the bunch. Adds a new dimension to the attack, almost like a second Mane (though not quite as good, obviously). But very pleased with him.

Keita is the midfielder we want. Red Bull held firm so we did the next best thing and bought him for next season.

AOC makes sense, offering some pace, power and trickery, and his versatility means he can cover on the wing and in midfield. I'm not excited about the price, but football has gone mad. I like his hunger to come here.

Solanke very good business. Has edged ahead of Origi in the pecking order in preseason and so one is out on loan and the other is here.

Robertson looked good in his one Prem game so far. Not great, so not going overboard, but natural left footer, offering width, reasonable pace and a good cross.

 

Add to this the rapid rise of TAA, the coming back to form after a long term injury of Gomez, and Gruijic the crusher looking like he's got a goal or a tackle in him every time he gets on the pitch, and the depth isn't as bad as we make out.

 

However...

 

There is a large VVD shaped hole in the central defence. Hard to pick apart all the details of why that deal didn't happen, but clearly we have the money but Southampton are making a point. Klopp's plan B is to go with what he has and presumably go back in for the player again in January. If the door fully closes on that deal and the player moves to another club, or tells Klopp he's not coming, I expect us to move to another target. Until that happens we look committed to making the deal happen.

 

So, what do I think of the owners after this window?

 

Well, unfortunately it's not definitive for me, and I find myself in about the same position as before summer. They are not the sugar daddy Man City sort of owner, and we never expected that. But at the same time I'm not ready to say they are bad owners.

 

Their commitment has been to grow the club and spend money generated on the club. We've seen a new main stand after years of stagnation on that side. I'd like to see the Anny Rd end sorted next. As for investment in the team, we've had it, but it hasn't been such largesse that we've been amazed, but neither has it been so clearly stingy that we have been swindled.

 

I think we could have done more, but I also think money is there and to date we have not been able to close the managers preferred deal on VVD.

 

I'm not enormously impressed with them, but neither do I have a pitchfork in hand ready to protest.

Even handed and fair assessment. A rarity on this forum.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rushies tash]

As of the last available financial accounts (2016), they have not taken a penny out in the form of dividends. They have put cash in, in the form of shareholder loans, some of which was converted to equity, some of which got repaid. Those loans, other than the stadium loans, carried zero interest. The stadium loan is paying something like 1.5% from memory, which is not very much at all.

 

If only looking at full financial years that they've been here, from year end 2012 to 2016, Total revenues were £1,230m. This excludes money received for transfers

 

Over the same period, wages were £758, other cash expenses (cost of sales, admin costs, paying of sacked management) were £297m , there has been a net cash outlfow on transfers (cash spent and received) of £208m. Add all that up and you get £1,263m spent.

 

You pissed off?

From 2012 to 2016 net spend was £208m? Shit! Really? £50m a year? And that includes Torres, Suarez and Sterling? Fucks sake!

[Numero Veinticinco]

Woolster is a dirty, dirty shill.

[jimmycase]

As of the last available financial accounts (2016), they have not taken a penny out in the form of dividends. They have put cash in, in the form of shareholder loans, some of which was converted to equity, some of which got repaid. Those loans, other than the stadium loans, carried zero interest. The stadium loan is paying something like 1.5% from memory, which is not very much at all.

 

If only looking at full financial years that they've been here, from year end 2012 to 2016, Total revenues were £1,230m. This excludes money received for transfers

 

Over the same period, wages were £758, other cash expenses (cost of sales, admin costs, paying of sacked management) were £297m , there has been a net cash outlfow on transfers (cash spent and received) of £208m. Add all that up and you get £1,263m spent.

 

You pissed off?

 

Some people wont listen to you mate. The owners have a yacht to pay for apparently.

[dickie mint]

Some people wont listen to you mate. The owners have a yacht to pay for apparently.

 

Why didn't they pay for Lemar when it come to light Monaco where willing to sell yesterday evening Jimbo,or just another case of "we're are interested but when we enquire we get no further than the selling clubs secretar",,bullshitters and it hasn't gone down to well mate.

[The Woolster]

From 2012 to 2016 net spend was £208m? Shit! Really? £50m a year? And that includes Torres, Suarez and Sterling? Fucks sake!

Imclusive of 2012, so 5 years.

 

Also its cash spent on transfers, which I think probably inculdes agent fees, but also means its not the full transfer fees as the paymemts are usually spread over a few years

[The Woolster]

Why didn't they pay for Lemar when it come to light Monaco where willing to sell yesterday evening Jimbo,or just another case of "we're are interested but when we enquire we get no further than the selling clubs secretar",,bullshitters and it hasn't gone down to well mate.

Probably because they don't think he's worth £92m would be my guess. Don't blame them

[dickie mint]

Probably because they don't think he's worth £92m would be my guess. Don't blame them

 

He'l be worth a lot more next summer,they have a habit of getting so close then suddenly relies they're not in the big league.or don't wanna be.

[Rushies tash]

Imclusive of 2012, so 5 years.

Also its cash spent on transfers, which I think probably inculdes agent fees, but also means its not the full transfer fees as the paymemts are usually spread over a few years

Even an average spend of £40m a year seems a lot given the money we got in for those three. Don't doubt your figures mate, just makes us look very fucking wasteful!

[Numero Veinticinco]

Even an average spend of £40m a year seems a lot given the money we got in for those three. Don't doubt your figures mate, just makes us look very fucking wasteful!

We have been insanely wasteful, and that's what we have been trying to avoid under Klopp. He has the confidence that he can do well without having to add 'ok' players. We are waiting for Keita, presumably waiting for VVD, waiting for Lemar. Yes, we need to get players in now but I like having a manager that feels safe enough in his job that he isn't willing to spend many 10s if millions on players who are a slight improvement over the ones we have, but that we will be trying to sell come deadline day in a couple of years. We want to build something, that's obvious.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Just read that under Klopp, we've had an average net spend of £8m during transfer windows.

 

Klopp is FSG dream manager.

[Harry Squatter]

They just want Klopp to get us into the Champions League every year with the bare minimum. That Martin Lewis fella is probably an advisor to our board.

[ngogswilly]

As of the last available financial accounts (2016), they have not taken a penny out in the form of dividends. They have put cash in, in the form of shareholder loans, some of which was converted to equity, some of which got repaid. Those loans, other than the stadium loans, carried zero interest. The stadium loan is paying something like 1.5% from memory, which is not very much at all.

 

If only looking at full financial years that they've been here, from year end 2012 to 2016, Total revenues were £1,230m. This excludes money received for transfers

 

Over the same period, wages were £758, other cash expenses (cost of sales, admin costs, paying of sacked management) were £297m , there has been a net cash outlfow on transfers (cash spent and received) of £208m. Add all that up and you get £1,263m spent.

 

You pissed off?

Is there a reason you exclude money raised from transfers in your calculations?

Genuinely just curious.

[General Dryness]

As of the last available financial accounts (2016), they have not taken a penny out in the form of dividends. They have put cash in, in the form of shareholder loans, some of which was converted to equity, some of which got repaid. Those loans, other than the stadium loans, carried zero interest. The stadium loan is paying something like 1.5% from memory, which is not very much at all.

 

If only looking at full financial years that they've been here, from year end 2012 to 2016, Total revenues were £1,230m. This excludes money received for transfers

 

Over the same period, wages were £758, other cash expenses (cost of sales, admin costs, paying of sacked management) were £297m , there has been a net cash outlfow on transfers (cash spent and received) of £208m. Add all that up and you get £1,263m spent.

 

You pissed off?

 

 

Is there a reason you exclude money raised from transfers in your calculations?

Genuinely just curious.

 

He hasn't mate, its there in the outgoings.

 

In incredibly simple terms, it seems to mean they've spent 333mill of their own money (initial outlay and spends since then, roughly) and now they value the club at 1billion. Which is a tidy profit.

 

Rich people getting richer like they do. Make of it what you will. I've decided its pointless worrying about it and fully intend to concentrate on whats happening on the pitch.

[VladimirIlyich]

Presumably you are pretending the Keita deal didn't happen?

Doesn't make a shread of difference to what happens this season so simply doesn't count. Its not inconceivable that Keita gets a serious injury in the meantime and then we are fucked. It would be great if we were a squad brimming with quality replacements but we are not and we haven't rectified this at all.

[Rotpeter]

Doesn't make a shread of difference to what happens this season so simply doesn't count. Its not inconceivable that Keita gets a serious injury in the meantime and then we are fucked. It would be great if we were a squad brimming with quality replacements but we are not and we haven't rectified this at all.

[shill]

Sorry, not up to date on the reporting of nett spend on the interwebs, obviously.

 

I don't think the squad is as weak as people make out.  The truth is IMO: the forward line and midfield are more than robust enough.  The defence not so much.

 

If you replay the issues we had last season with this squad, I think you'll find were in a much better position to deal with it.

 

IMO the squad as much reflects Klopps approach to football as anything else.

 

There's a ton of kids in the squad because development is a big part of his mindset.

He builds the squad from the front backwards.

He, like FSG, is not a win at any cost manager, a la Mourinho & Man City.  Winning is only one of his objectives,  He's balancing the desires of fans, players and owners, pretty well IMO.

He knows this year is not the only year that it's possible to win the title.  He has a longish contract; that's the horizon he's working to.

 

[/shill]

[jimmycase]

The Chinese revolution in European football has hit a speedbump as the country's government clamps down on money leaving the mainland, with one club owner ready to sell up as political pressure intensifies.

At least 20 sides across Europe have seen investment from China in the two years since president Xi Jinping announced a push for the national team to become a global football superpower.

However, Chinese authorities have now taken action to reduce the amount of cash leaving the country, in an effort to limit 'irrational' spending on projects abroad, curb the depreciation of the Yuan and guard against money laundering.

 

 

Those new regulations, in addition to increased scrutiny from financial authorities, look set to have a knock-on effect in the Premier League, EFL and further afield.

And Sportsmail understands one owner is actively engaged in offloading their shares.

Earlier this month, China's state council formally placed sports clubs on a widening list of industries in which investment is restricted overseas - alongside property, film, hotels and entertainment - in an effort to limit 'irrational' spending on projects outside the country.

While such investment is not banned, companies interest in acquiring a slice of Europe's football pie face significantly more substantial checks and balances from state regulators than before.

The complexities of the situation were highlighted by the recent purchase of an 80 per cent controlling stake in Southampton by Jisheng Gao and his daughter Nelly in August.

With the Gaos unable to use the finances of their company, Lander, to facilitate the move they had to stump up the £210million asking price from the family coffers.

 

UK CLUBS WITH CHINESE INVESTMENT 

Manchester City (China Media Capital/CITIC Capital)

Birmingham City (Trillion Trophy Asia/Paul Suen)

Aston Villa (Dr Tony Xia)

West Brom (Guochuan Lai)

Wolves (Fosun International)

Southampton (Jisheng & Nelly Gao)

 

But it is not only the logistical issues caused by the new regulations which could dampen the enthusiasm of Chinese businessmen when it comes to European football. The politics of the situation are also leaving investors fidgety.

In June, the China Banking Regulatory Commission became the latest administrative body to open an investigation into some of the most active investment groups.

Dalian Wanda, Fosun International and Suning, all of which hold stakes in major European clubs, have seen their purchases in a variety of sectors examined.

In particular, state authorities are interested in whether high-interest products and overseas loans were used to facilitate deals.

The situation is fragile and tense, with investors not wanting to be seen to be acting against the wishes of the state.

In an effort to show his company's willingness to fall in line with government policy, the chairman of Fosun, who bought Championship outfit Wolves for £45m last year, issued a public statement in which he supported the state council's new restrictions.

 

Dr Tony Xia is the owner of Aston Villa - one of six English clubs with Chinese investment

In a letter posted on Fosun's WeChat account, billionaire Guo Guangchang wrote: 'The recent scrutiny on overseas investments and financial irregularities are necessary, timely and can eradicate a lot of irrational investments.

'If we don't take some measures, foreigners will takes us as "dumb people with a lot of money".'

Wolves are one of six English clubs to have secured Chinese money over the past two years. Five have come from private companies or individuals.

Aston Villa are now owned by Dr Tony Xia, Guochuan Lai acquired West Brom for almost £200m in 2016, Paul Suen controls Birmingham City through the Virgin Islands-registered Trillion Trophy Asia and the Gaos hold 80 per cent of Southampton.

Only one group - the consortium of China Media Capital and CITIC Capital which hold a 13 per cent stake in Manchester City - are state-backed.

Now the Chinese government is taking a stronger stance. And it could herald another shift in the landscape of European club ownership just two years after the last.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4841524/Is-Chinese-football-ownership-bubble-burst.html#ixzz4rbkUkcLI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[dickie mint]

They've had a clampdown on spending at LFC for a while Jimbo,quite ahead of there time this FSG.

[jimmycase]

They've had a clampdown on spending at LFC for a while Jimbo,quite ahead of there time this FSG.

 

No, that's just a myth people like yourself try and perpetuate.

[aws]

CHINA SELLS LIVERPOOL.

[General Dryness]

CHINA SELLS LIVERPOOL.

CHINA OPENS BULL SHOP. DISASTER IMMINENT.