The Atomic bombing of Nagasaki

[Anny Road]

'They'??

 

I give up.

It was done in their name is that impossible for you to grasp. The populace is not somehow separated from the military that serve them.

[Stu Monty]

I'm not being racist or demonising entire peoples by saying that the Japs were horrendous murdering bastards during the war. If it was 1945 and my lad was in the navy and they were thinking of a land invasion of Japan I would thank the lord a bomb ended that possibility.

The "If I had a son..." line of thought never really carries much weight. I'd do horrific things to keep my clan safe, it doesn't make it right.

[Anny Road]

The "If I had a son..." line of thought never really carries much weight. I'd do horrific things to keep my clan safe, it doesn't make it right.

It was not right noone is arguing that but can be used to justify it as horrendous as it was.

[Boss]

They just have head chopping off competitions instead.

 

That was done by two people that were both executed for war crimes. if your siding with the Americans may i suggest taking a look at the collateral murder video to see how they treat people they're at war with. 

[Stu Monty]

It was not right noone is arguing that but can be used to justify it as horrendous as it was.

Justify?

 

A serial killer can justify why he kills people too. Not sure self-interest is much of a decent justification in any debate.

 

The Germans could justify the holocaust. They'd still be in the wrong.

[Rico1304]

Dennis operates on a different plane to everyone else. Thank fuck.

 

Top morals from a person who pretends he bayoneted someone.

[Anny Road]

Sorry Monty but that is nonsense. The yanks were at war. A war started by the aggression of the Japanese. Why should a nation that has been attacked look to spare the population of the aggressor ahead of its own. Why did we not send in ground troops to Dresden instead of carpet bombing the place.

Because like in Japan it would have cost tens of thousands of lives on both sides not just those we were sworn to defend.

War is not fair and there will always be a loser. The idea is to make sure it is not you.

[Stu Monty]

Erm, if war isn't fair, and the only consideration is winning then why are we complaining about concentration camps or slaughtering innocents?

 

Because, even in war, win at any cost is not something we want to believe is acceptable to us.

 

"I want to win" is not an argument that will justify an action that is morally questionable.

[Rico1304]

Once the war was over Japan and Germany went on to become industrial and financial powerhouses. What do you think would have happened to us?

[Anny Road]

What do you suggest mate write each other a nice letter and meet for coffee to sort it out. Come on.

The dropping of the bomb was as much a blessing for the Japanese leadership as it gave them public backing for surrender. The yanks new that it would not have happened without some colossal victory. With the threat of more.

[janmolby]

The raping of Nanking

[Rico1304]

What do you suggest mate write each other a nice letter and meet for coffee to sort it out. Come on.

The dropping of the bomb was as much a blessing for the Japanese leadership as it gave them public backing for surrender. The yanks new that it would not have happened without some colossal victory. With the threat of more.

I'm with you, it was a horrible but necessary evil.

[Bjornebye]

No Rico, it was just horrible. 

[Boss]

It was done in their name is that impossible for you to grasp. The populace is not somehow separated from the military that serve them.

 

So what your saying is the civilians deserved to pay the price because of their country's military operations overseas? In that case why aren't American citizens being killed because of their country's military actions....oh thats right they were, it's called 9/11.

 

9/11 (3000 civilians die)- Freedom attacked, democracy under threat, the world stops, the world mourns.

 

Nuclear bombing of Japan (200,000+ civilians die) - America saves the world, ends the war, it was a necessary sacrifice, the Japanese deserved it after the Nanking massacre.

[Rico1304]

So what your saying is the civilians deserved to pay the price because of their country's military operations overseas? In that case why aren't American citizens being killed because of their country's military actions....oh thats right they were, it's called 9/11.

 

9/11 (3000 civilians die)- Freedom attacked, democracy under threat, the world stops, the world mourns.

 

Nuclear bombing of Japan (200,000+ civilians die) - America saves the world, ends the war, it was a necessary sacrifice, the Japanese deserved it after the Nanking massacre.

Complete and utter tripe.

[Boss]

Complete and utter tripe.

 

Thank you.

[dennis tooth]

It was done in their name is that impossible for you to grasp. The populace is not somehow separated from the military that serve them.

 

No whats impossible for you to grasp is the difference between military and civilian. Government and individuals. Which makes you no better than ISIS.

 

All you are saying is 'might makes right' which means if I knock your head off I win the argument on every level. Which is fair by me. And if China drops nukes on us tomorrow its ok saslongastheywin.

[dennis tooth]

Dennis operates on a different plane to everyone else. Thank fuck.

 

Top morals from a person who pretends he bayoneted someone.

 

I bonnetted someone I didnt pretend to bayonet anyone. Regretfully.

[Jairzinho]

The populace is not somehow separated from the military that serve them.

 

 

That is an incredibly scary thought.

[Mook]

Here's a question, has anybody on the internet ever changed their mind about anything?

 

I posed the question about Nagasaki in the OP to spark a bit of debate and to be honest I've no fucking idea whether it was right or wrong. I honestly don't think it's as black and white as that, it was definitely a horrible thing to happen though, as is any act of war. I'm a bit pished anyway and am probably slavering a load of shite.

 

Nuke me.

[ZonkoVille77]

IMO any sort of indescrimate mass murder of innocent people is just wrong no matter what it prevents long term, and is the work of evil bastards.

[General Dryness]

Here's a question, has anybody on the internet ever changed their mind about anything?

 

I posed the question about Nagasaki in the OP to spark a bit of debate and to be honest I've no fucking idea whether it was right or wrong. I honestly don't think it's as black and white as that, it was definitely a horrible thing to happen though, as is any act of war. I'm a bit pished anyway and am probably slavering a load of shite.

 

Nuke me.

 

Have they fuck.

 

As far as the whole nuke thing goes, I'm horrified by it and the thought of that remorseless heat washing over everything in its path, young or old, just doesn't bear thinking about.

 

Right or wrong? Like Mook, I've got no idea. Arguments on both sides.  It happened, and it was terrible, but I'm not going to flagellate myself over it.

[Boss]

I bonnetted someone I didnt pretend to bayonet anyone. Regretfully.

 

dennis making his getaway...

 

[Anny Road]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

 

Arriving at a probable number of Japan’s war victims who died is difficult for several interesting reasons, which have to do with Western perceptions. Both Americans and Europeans fell into the unfortunate habit of seeing WW1 and WW2 as separate wars, failing to comprehend that they were interlaced in a multitude of ways (not merely that one was the consequence of the other, or of the rash behavior of the victors after WW1). Wholly aside from this basic misconception, most Americans think of WW2 in Asia as having begun with Pearl Harbor, the British with the fall of Singapore, and so forth. The Chinese would correct this by identifying the Marco Polo Bridge incident as the start, or the Japanese seizure of Manchuria earlier. It really began in 1895 with Japan’s assassination of Korea’s Queen Min, and invasion of Korea, resulting in its absorption into Japan, followed quickly by Japan’s seizure of southern Manchuria, etc. - establishing that Japan was at war from 1895-1945. Prior to 1895, Japan had only briefly invaded Korea during the Shogunate, long before the Meiji Restoration, and the invasion failed. Therefore, Rummel’s estimate of 6-million to 10-million dead between 1937 (the Rape of Nanjing) and 1945, may be roughly corollary to the time-frame of the Nazi Holocaust, but it falls far short of the actual numbers killed by the Japanese war machine. If you add, say, 2-million Koreans, 2-million Manchurians, Chinese, Russians, many East European Jews (both Sephardic and Ashkenazy), and others killed by Japan between 1895 and 1937 (conservative figures), the total of Japanese victims is more like 10-million to 14-million. Of these, I would suggest that between 6-million and 8-million were ethnic Chinese, regardless of where they were resident.^[39]

[Boss]

What do you suggest mate write each other a nice letter and meet for coffee to sort it out. Come on.

The dropping of the bomb was as much a blessing for the Japanese leadership as it gave them public backing for surrender. The yanks new that it would not have happened without some colossal victory. With the threat of more.

 

Tojo was furious with the Japanese government and the emperor of Japan for accepting unconditional surrender.This is the culture that spawned the Kamikaze pilot and Seppuku. Tojo wanted to carry on fighting after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, he wanted to call America's bluff. Unbeknownst to them America only had one other nuclear bomb available after the two cities were levelled, some people say it was heading for Kokura (as they did weather reconnaissance on Kokura alongside Hiroshima and Nagasaki) and some people say they would've dropped it on Tokyo for the maximum amount of human cost.