The Atomic bombing of Nagasaki

[VladimirIlyich]

Complete and utter tripe.

Simplistic? Yes,tripe? No.

Just a different perspective of how actions are explained and some of how the logic is explained.

[Paulie Dangerously]

Just reading on the BBC that The decadely VP speech by the Japanese PM Is due in the next few days.

 

There's a growing unrest with a young generation tired of having to apologise for their forefathers actions still but the speech is traditionally used to reiterate regret.

 

I'm not overly convinced that a repeatedly apology in such situations is necessary and think it ferments resentment in the apologising nation.

[Section_31]

I find it very difficult to feel sympathy for the German or Japanese nations of that era. Unspeakably cruel, all bets were off, it was the least morally ambiguous conflict in recent human history. On one side a raping, beheading, gassing, medical experimenting, militaristic gang of cunts, and on the other some mickey mouse underpants wearing, chocolate providing, tea drinking blokes. I know which side I'm on.

[Rico1304]

Just reading on the BBC that The decadely VP speech by the Japanese PM Is due in the next few days. There's a growing unrest with a young generation tired of having to apologise for their forefathers actions still but the speech is traditionally used to reiterate regret. I'm not overly convinced that a repeatedly apology in such situations is necessary and think it ferments resentment in the apologising nation.

It was today, he apologised, but also said they don't need to go on apologising which I think is fair enough.

[dennis tooth]

I find it very difficult to feel sympathy for the German or Japanese nations of that era. Unspeakably cruel, all bets were off, it was the least morally ambiguous conflict in recent human history. On one side a raping, beheading, gassing, medical experimenting, militaristic gang of cunts, and on the other some mickey mouse underpants wearing, chocolate providing, tea drinking blokes. I know which side I'm on.

Do you read the guardian?

[stringvest]

[Bjornebye]

https-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqBrw3rQvKo

Where were you when the hiroshima one struck mate?

[Carvalho Diablo]

[stringvest]

Where were you when the hiroshima one struck mate?

 

fixing the glass in our chippy

[Nightcat]

Once the war was over Japan and Germany went on to become industrial and financial powerhouses. What do you think would have happened to us?

 

 

That happened because both Japan and (especially) Germany received enormous financial, political and industrial support from the U.S.A.

 

A German state would not have survived without having its debt written off as it was decided in London in 1953. The U.S. also defended for 70+ years the sovereignty of Germany and still maintain more than 30.000 U.S. soldiers in Germany for NATO purposes and to protect them, which enables Germany to spend very little on their defence. 

[cochyn]

Yeah, not having a defence budget for 30 years because the Americans are guarding you will add up!

 

That, and having British Military Engineering Corps completely rebuild your factories whilst those in the UK are making do on Victorian technology 'elps. 

 

I'm off to Germany next week. I'll try not to bring it up..

[Stu Monty]

I find it very difficult to feel sympathy for the German or Japanese nations of that era. Unspeakably cruel, all bets were off, it was the least morally ambiguous conflict in recent human history. On one side a raping, beheading, gassing, medical experimenting, militaristic gang of cunts, and on the other some mickey mouse underpants wearing, chocolate providing, tea drinking blokes. I know which side I'm on.

I'd imagine you don't struggle to feel sympathy for the children melted into the roads or nuked in those countries?

 

I'm not putting forward an idea that there are no tough choices in war but the idea that all bets are ever off is one of a psychopath.

[Red Phoenix]

Those two bombs for me are the most full on psycho event in our known history as a species (because of the amount of instant/near instant death and injury they caused.) I don't think there's any excuse for it whatsoever. The fact that the US gov/military actually dropped them both speaks volumes. I'll try to refrain from posting any further because it winds me up about as much as anything else I can imagine.

[Mr Nando]

Holy fuck reading this thread is disturbing. I agree with Neko 100%, looking at historical events with a modern perspective is utterly pointless and perverse. 

 

You can call the dropping of the atomic bombs a war crime if you want. But then you start having to call the traditional bombing of Tokyo as a War Crime or the British bombing of Dresden. Not to forget the whole concept of a war crime is absurd and totally arbitrary.

 

It is a fact that an invasion of the Japanese mainland would of caused hundreds of thousands of casualties (conservative estimate), if not millions. Not just of Allied and Japanese military personnel, but the majority would of been Japanese civilians.

 

The casualty rate for Japanese civilians on Okinawa was around 33%. Which would of been a lot higher on the mainland, considering as the Japanese home islands(main islands) viewed the Okinawans as not proper Japanese.

So the bombs saved lives and shortened the war, SUCH A CRIME.

 

And yes the Japanese really do need to apologise properly to the Chinese, who they were at war with from 1937 and caused the death of more Chinese then the total sum of holocaust & Soviet deaths.

[dennis tooth]

Holy fuck reading this thread is disturbing. I agree with Neko 100%, looking at historical events with a modern perspective is utterly pointless and perverse.

 

You can call the dropping of the atomic bombs a war crime if you want. But then you start having to call the traditional bombing of Tokyo as a War Crime or the British bombing of Dresden. Not to forget the whole concept of a war crime is absurd and totally arbitrary.

 

It is a fact that an invasion of the Japanese mainland would of caused hundreds of thousands of casualties (conservative estimate), if not millions. Not just of Allied and Japanese military personnel, but the majority would of been Japanese civilians.

 

The casualty rate for Japanese civilians on Okinawa was around 33%. Which would of been a lot higher on the mainland, considering as the Japanese home islands(main islands) viewed the Okinawans as not proper Japanese.

So the bombs saved lives and shortened the war, SUCH A CRIME.

 

And yes the Japanese really do need to apologise properly to the Chinese, who they were at war with from 1937 and caused the death of more Chinese then the total sum of holocaust & Soviet deaths.

They had no need at all to invade japan it was dropped to shit Russia up in fact and again demonising entire people is racist you can't be scientific and racist again your only defending this because it happens to be your team who did it the end

[Bjornebye]

Holy fuck reading this thread is disturbing. I agree with Neko 100%, looking at historical events with a modern perspective is utterly pointless and perverse.

 

You can call the dropping of the atomic bombs a war crime if you want. But then you start having to call the traditional bombing of Tokyo as a War Crime or the British bombing of Dresden. Not to forget the whole concept of a war crime is absurd and totally arbitrary.

 

It is a fact that an invasion of the Japanese mainland would of caused hundreds of thousands of casualties (conservative estimate), if not millions. Not just of Allied and Japanese military personnel, but the majority would of been Japanese civilians.

 

The casualty rate for Japanese civilians on Okinawa was around 33%. Which would of been a lot higher on the mainland, considering as the Japanese home islands(main islands) viewed the Okinawans as not proper Japanese.

So the bombs saved lives and shortened the war, SUCH A CRIME.

 

And yes the Japanese really do need to apologise properly to the Chinese, who they were at war with from 1937 and caused the death of more Chinese then the total sum of holocaust & Soviet deaths.

What a load of shite

[Paulie Dangerously]

looking at historical events with a modern perspective is utterly pointless and perverse.

 

.

Agree with this bit. Once had an argument with someone because I didn't agree with a story about the descendent of a slave trader going to Africa in chains to apologise to a village his ancestor took slaves from.

 

You can't judge events by today's moral standards.

[ZonkoVille77]

Holy fuck reading this thread is disturbing.

 

And yes the Japanese really do need to apologise properly to the Chinese, who they were at war with from 1937 and caused the death of more Chinese then the total sum of holocaust & Soviet deaths.

What's so disturbing about pointing out that indescrimate murder is wrong? Nonsense.

 

And you're wrong about them being at war from 1937. The Japanese starting killing Chinese (and Koreans and jews) as early as 1895, but it was 1931 when they invaded.

[VladimirIlyich]

https-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqBrw3rQvKo

I reckon a neg bomb is a bit out of place in this thread.

Very hard to fap to.

[Red Phoenix]

Holy fuck reading this thread is disturbing. I agree with Neko 100%, looking at historical events with a modern perspective is utterly pointless and perverse. 

 

You can call the dropping of the atomic bombs a war crime if you want. But then you start having to call the traditional bombing of Tokyo as a War Crime or the British bombing of Dresden. Not to forget the whole concept of a war crime is absurd and totally arbitrary.

 

It is a fact that an invasion of the Japanese mainland would of caused hundreds of thousands of casualties (conservative estimate), if not millions. Not just of Allied and Japanese military personnel, but the majority would of been Japanese civilians.

 

The casualty rate for Japanese civilians on Okinawa was around 33%. Which would of been a lot higher on the mainland, considering as the Japanese home islands(main islands) viewed the Okinawans as not proper Japanese.

So the bombs saved lives and shortened the war, SUCH A CRIME.

 

And yes the Japanese really do need to apologise properly to the Chinese, who they were at war with from 1937 and caused the death of more Chinese then the total sum of holocaust & Soviet deaths.

 

 

Whether it was Dresden, Tokyo, Chongqing, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, or anywhere else, there's no way of justifying bombing civilians. You can't justify it by saying it shortened the war either, because ways of resolving the conflict that placed the safety of civilians at the forefront could have been used instead.

[dennis tooth]

Agree with this bit. Once had an argument with someone because I didn't agree with a story about the descendent of a slave trader going to Africa in chains to apologise to a village his ancestor took slaves from.

 

You can't judge events by today's moral standards.

Utter bollocks.

Just spoke to hitler and hes thrilled. Ill just let the japs know all that stuff people are happy slagging them off for and demanding apologies for the japs conduct in the war cannot either be judged by todays morals. Or does it just apply to our crimes that lie youve just uttered?

Oops have i exposed your bias with the last question? Its ok you wrote that five minutes ago and I cant go applying this moments morals to the past it seems.

[Section_31]

I'd imagine you don't struggle to feel sympathy for the children melted into the roads or nuked in those countries?

 

I'm not putting forward an idea that there are no tough choices in war but the idea that all bets are ever off is one of a psychopath.

I think you can say that about any conflict and any beligerant action though. If I use my howitzers to obliterate an SS division in the snow, is that okay until someone brings me back some family photographs that reveals they're not armed combatants but in fact, 17-year-old brothers and sons?

 

We were bombing German cities for years, we didn't give a fuck about their pubs and schools because they didn't give a fuck about ours.

 

If I go into a pub fight with the aim of not killing someone. If he pulls a knife and tries to stab me, my own compunctions about what I am and am not willing to do to survive would change rapidly.

 

If your geandad or uncle would have been killed invading Japan, only for your nan to find out the allies had a secret weapon that could have ended it sooner, you might have a different view.

[Stu Monty]

Agree with this bit. Once had an argument with someone because I didn't agree with a story about the descendent of a slave trader going to Africa in chains to apologise to a village his ancestor took slaves from.

 

You can't judge events by today's moral standards.

Yes, you can.

 

Unless we're also not going to judge concentration camps for the same reason.

 

Morality hasn't changed that dramatically.

[Anny Road]

History is written by the victors. If Hitler had succeeded I dare say we would be looking back at the Holocaust with different eyes. It would probably be seen as a necessary purge of social undesirables. Still doesn't make it right but changes the context.

[Bjornebye]

So the argument for the use of atomic bombs is speculating that 'more' civilians would have died of they hadn't been dropped.

 

My fucking word. Talk about completely missing the point. Anyone who tries to justify atomic bombs is a grade a nuclear cunt.