Has Lucas improved enough to warrant him being a first team regular?

[WhiskeyJar]

No, I don't think he is good enough at the moment to move past being a good squad player.

 

I can't help but think that if he were playing for someone like Sunderland he'd be a player people were talking about in terms of whether he'll move to a bigger club. I reckon he'd be seen in the same way as Parker when he was at Charlton.

 

When great players and managers rate a certain player you cannot help but wonder why, with Lucas I can see what they are all talking about.

 

He has all the attributes to make it great here, he just needs a little more time. If by next season he has not improved more then I would have to agree with you. For now I would keep him and train him up, if nothing else just to see what type of player he will become.

 

Besides not everyone is a superstar at 23.

[Delmar]

I'm sure I'm going to regret saying this, but....

 

Please explain.

 

I read that to mean that you cannot see. And you are a fucking fuck, as well. And that "you" probably includes me, as well.

 

Apart from that, Lucas is to me good enough to be the first choice as long as we have our first choice full backs available. If we do not, we cannot play with two holding midfielders, in which case Mascherano (being the best in the world in that role) should play ahead of Lucas together with a more creative player.

 

Maxi's arrival helps Lucas, as well. With Maxi we have another player that prefers short passes and keeping the ball, and he can use the ball creatively when needed. It's always easier to play with people who see or learned the game the same way.

[Warwick Hunt]

I don't think he's got enough real game intelligence to be a star player, not in this league anyway.

 

I think he'd excel in Spain or Italy though.

 

I don't think there's room for him and Mascherano in the same team unless its a dogs of war type game, and there's only really 3 or 4 of them types of games a year.

 

And he needs to start scoring a few too.

 

 

I think he's definately improved since he's been here, but nowhere near enough, and he's at the age now where he should be hitting them standards

 

 

For that reason, I'm out

[silverlining]

No, I don't think he is good enough at the moment to move past being a good squad player.

 

I can't help but think that if he were playing for someone like Sunderland he'd be a player people were talking about in terms of whether he'll move to a bigger club. I reckon he'd be seen in the same way as Parker when he was at Charlton.

 

 

He wouldn't get a game at Sunderland as Reid, Cana and Cattermole are all better players.

[El Rojo]

He wouldn't get a game at Sunderland as Reid, Cana and Cattermole are all better players.

 

Cana seems pretty average so far, I was expecting a lot more from him.

Edited March 1, 2010 by El Rojo

[silverlining]

 

He is going to be great for us I think, if anything he needs to work on his attacking attributes which are clearly there.

 

I dont think its a confidence issue, more like following Rafas instructions to the T. He needs to show some more courage and do things his own way, which I think would see him improve even more.

 

Clearly where?

 

So it's Benitez's fault that he's rubbish?

He's *instructed* to never score goals or make assists?

[Redshadow]

I think Lucas has improved enough to be a regular - I think he's improved out of ALL recognition from his previous seasons here; I believe as well that many of the idiots calling for his head (and not a few of them are on this very thread) should take note of one Very salient fact - Guess just WHO is statistically THE best passer in the Premier League this season bar none? This is also Just Who our best attacking displays this season have come with him as one of our centre midfielders?............Got it yet?..........Yep it's Lucas Leiva - so IF he's THE best passer in the whole Premier League he MUST be doing something right as not even Alonso managed THAT all the time during his time here. No, I think Lucas is being unfairly slagged off for the failings of the team in other areas - Like just When has he had even a TENTH of the movement Xabi had to work with? OR a defence behind him as good as ours was for the last couple of seasons this year?

 

What with the likes of Agger, Benayoun, Gerrard, Torres, Babel, Riera, Maxi and now Pacheco all being very limited in their appearences this season due to injuries/suspensions/being new to the team for whatever reason; Along with the fact he's yet to work with many of them for more than 4 years in the manner Xabi had worked with the ENTIRE team (attack, defence And midfield) by last season, yet he can Still produce wonderful passes like those for Torres yesterday, Ngog against United or for Gerrard last season v Newcastle - in fact the more I think about it - the more I'm convinced that HE is meant to succeed Xabi whilst Aquilani's meant to be cover/replacement for Gerrard behind the forwards as El Capitan's legs are quite clearly not what they used to be and he Won't last up there forever.

 

To summarise - YES Lucas more than deserves his place in our team and to those faint hearted bleating idiots who crap on about his so called 'lack' of quality - Go home and Don't come back - you don't get to be a footballer in Brazil's national side (and one of their best ever young players) And become ranked as THE best passer in the Premier League bar none - as Lucas has done in recent years without a great deal of quality - jus maybe it's the team around him that have failed to match HIS quality - has anyone thought that? I certainly have - in fact I'd go so far as to say he's up there with Masch'/Gerrard and Torres as indispensable to us this season since our midfield Always looks weaker without him - THAT is a true measure of his quality and believe me, quality he has - in abundunce as well. It's not Lucas whose failed the team this season - it's the team who've failed Him...........................................

 

NB Bob spunkmouse - idiot; I take it you missed his FORWARD pass for Ngog's goal agaisnt Manchester United then? ''First time he's tried such a pass since Newcastle Away last season'' my boots!!! What utter, utter rot but still symptomatic I suppose of the sort of trash the Lucas haters like YOU put forward to support their pathetic excuses for arguments isn't it?

 

NNB: Coop; I actually think Lucas CAN sit in midfield and dictate play as he did pretty well against Blackburn yesterday and against Villa away, United at home, West Ham away, Hull and Stoke at home to name but SIX games he's done it in this season - It's just that in trying to convert him into another Mascherano for whatever reason - Rafa's taken something away from his NATURAL game - a game that made him THE perfect replacement for Alonso - Now? Lucas is caught between 2 stalls sometimes in games as he was yesterday trying to cover for Masch' who'd gone to right back AND dictate play when he should have just concentrated on the latter. I think he's gradually getting that 'something' he had before back but it's taken a while as it had been coached out of him to some extent by Rafa'.

[Crazyhorse7778]

Squad player. Yes. First team regular. No.

[silverlining]

 

Guess just WHO is statistically THE best passer in the Premier League this season bar none? This is also Just Who our best attacking displays this season have come with him as one of our centre midfielders?............Got it yet?..........Yep it's Lucas Leiva - so IF he's THE best passer in the whole Premier League he MUST be doing something right as not even Alonso managed THAT all the time during his time here.

 

 

Are you actually saying that you think Lucas is the best passer of a football in the entire Premiership?

 

It's pretty obvious you're a clattering mongoloid, but surely even you can past that specious statistic?

[Redshadow]

I've seen it mentioned on several sites recently as a stat' so quoted it in his defence - what's wrong with that? Even if it IS untrue, it's not worse than half the biased crap I've seen quoted to ATTACK him with - Don't like the same being done back do you Lucas-haters? As to a clattering mongoloid well I've never heard that name before but it must have taken a spectacularly ignorant, pathetic and obtuse ignoramus to come up with it so I congratulate you Sir Foolish. BTW just WHEN this season has Lucas misplaced a pass? I don't seem to remember it happening many times if ever so maybe the stat' DOES have some legs after all...............................

[silverlining]

I've seen it mentioned on several sites recently as a stat' so quoted it in his defence - what's wrong with that? Even if it IS untrue, it's not worse than half the biased crap I've seen quoted to ATTACK him with - Don't like the same being done back do you Lucas-haters? As to a clattering mongoloid well I've never heard that name before but it must have taken a spectacularly ignorant, pathetic and obtuse ignoramus to come up with it so I congratulate you Sir Foolish. BTW just WHEN this season has Lucas misplaced a pass? I don't seem to remember it happening many times if ever so maybe the stat' DOES have some legs after all...............................

 

I know he ain't just called me "Sir Foolish"!

 

You be lookin for a HELLA beating homes. Like a DAWG.

[Curly]

I think he has improved so much that he does indeed desreve to be in the first team.

 

He can tackle, pass, make through balls, bring other players into play...all he needs to do now is chip in with a few goals and he is good as golden.

 

What d'ya think?

 

Not trying to be a prick to you mate, but I couldn't disagree more. His tackling is weak and often ends up in giving away a soft free kick, he can only pass back to the centre backs or 5 yards sideways if someone is near him, he's made about 2 actual proper through balls all season and as earlier mentioned, the other players he "brings into play" are Masch, Skrtel, Agger and Carra.

 

Apart from that he's amazing

[The 5th Benitel]

I reckon most players would have great stats if the only played it 5 yards and the way they were facing.

[Redshadow]

Sorry Silverlining - didn't mean to get personal; Just didn't like the 'mongoloid' insult is all; BTW as to where I ORIGINALLY got that 'best passer in the Premier League' stat from re Lucas? Three quarters of the way down his Wikipedia entry - it says THIS;

 

''The 2009/2010 season has seen a large increase in the form of the young Brazilian. Factual Premiership statistics up to the 25th of January 2010 have shown Lucas to be the most successful passer of the ball in the Premiership this season, clocking up over 1200+ successful passes. He is also the player with the 3rd highest amount of successful tackles. This rich vein of form on his part has effectively reduced £17 million signing Alberto Aquilani to a utility role within the squad.''

 

Does that help Explain things?

[Mathewbet1]

Hes average at everything, but has definitely improved. Good backup player.

[bri]

in short no, we've just become shit. end of thread

[JER]

Lucas has improved and is not a bad player at all, but playing him and Masch together is the problem. There is only room for one of them imo, and Masch is a better player, so I voted no.

[Kevin D]

While I don't rate him, and think those that do are on an elaborate wind-up, I think he's in the same boat as quite of few of our players, in that the system doesn't play to their strengths or get the best out of them.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

Tricky one this: is he good enough to be a regular starter in what we want a Liverpool squad to be, or in what the current Liverpool squad really is?

 

You my friend are pointing at the real question. Please don't continue to fuck up threads with such clairvoyance in the future will you. :thumbup:

[Iantn]

Should be back up to Mascherano, good squad player and he's improve a lot. However he is still limited and we need more quality on the ball than Mascherano and Lucas offer as a pair. That is why I think Gerrard should always be used in centre midfield.

 

Spot on.

[RafaLaBamba]

yes and no...

[Section_31]

The problem with Lucas isn't just a lack of ability, it's that he's got no spunk. So no.

[Guest TK-421]

He's had some good games (Man Utd), some bad games (Fiorentina) and lots of in-betweeny games. He's a developing player so he's been inconsistent, a bit like Insua. But over time the bad games and mistakes are becoming less frequent, and the good aspects of his play are becoming more frequent.

 

At the moment he is playing better than Aquilani, and is more reliable, so he's in the team on merit. So I voted "yes", because that is the current state of affairs and will be for the foreseeable future.

[2pak]

No.

[Red Banjo]

Voted no. Not sure if its been mentioned in this thread but the main gripe i have with Lucas is his game intelligence and failure to see the correct pass. Time and time again he plays the ball to a team-mate who is being guarded, and has no space to move into. He fails to see beyond where the play currently is, and more often than not - makes the pass which immediately places the recipient of the ball in trouble. Gerrard for example see's the player, see's the space and plays the ball into the area where the player may or may not run into - Lucas plays to the feet of a player about to be tackled. It may find its target - but the move is immediately broken down, which may explain his impressive pass completion, but also explains why he isn't a regular contributor of goals.

 

I think he's improved, but i dont see him correcting this area of his game enough to make him the player we all want him to be. We knew Mascherano didn't score when we signed him, but Lucas came with a decent portfolio of goals - and after last week, Javier is in the lead in the scoring charts between the two. We dont need two of the same sort of player - its been the problem all season, if Lucas can add the killer pass - or a semi-regular goal to his game - i can see him becoming an important player, but as it is - he's just doesn't do enough to warrant a regular place in a team supposedly challenging for the title.

 

Shame really, but thats how i feel.