team for Man Shitty

[piscinin]

Very good points because Skrtel is right it wasnt his zone if you are going to play Zonal marking.

 

Even though he looks at fault its not his fault at all.

 

Its just a team in dissarray

 

Someone needs to get organizing that defence..

[Brownie]

Apologises, I never saw the edit before my post was made.

 

I actually wasn't trying to belittle Hiddinks achievements. It's the infallable natutre of his record that some seem to create that does piss me off. Not actually your words on him but still something that annoys me.

 

Fair enough re: the edit.

 

And also the Hiddink thing. I don't think he's some kind of god, i'm just looking for solutions to our problems and he's one of them, in my view.

 

Having taken stock and chilled out for a bit, I wouldn't actually make any changes right now as I think Rafa deserves the whole season.

 

I'm just incredibly frustrated.

 

I'd certainly be having discussions with Hiddink though ahead of a possible move in the summer.

[Iantn]

There isn't a deadline although one could easily argue that Rafa FAILED to win the title in the first 5 years. The main reason why he was brought in.

 

We don't behave like some idiotic clubs like Madrid or Chelsea or Newcastle by sacking the manager every 6 months. Rafa himself will acknowledge that.

 

However, a line has to be drawn at somepoint in life. What he won in 2005 and 2006 was fantastic and he will always be a legend (at least to me).

 

To me, he shouldn't stay beyond the summer. But I wouldn't get rid of him now.

 

To be fair I disgagree that Rafa's work as our manager has been "hugely handicapped" since the current owners took charge. Whether I am right or not I suppose only time will tell.

 

If you said now that sacking Rafa and appointed I dunno Peter Reid, for example, would win us the league this year I'd do it now meself. Yet I don't think it will. I understand we all want the league yet I don't understand how Rafa is more to blame for our current plight than the owners.

[Brownie]

To be fair I disgagree that Rafa's work as our manager has been "hugely handicapped" since the current owners took charge. Whether I am right or not I suppose only time will tell.

 

If you said now that sacking Rafa and appointed I dunno Peter Reid, for example, would win us the league this year I'd do it now meself. Yet I don't think it will. I understand we all want the league yet I don't understand how Rafa is more to blame for our current plight than the owners.

 

Rafa isn't more to blame than the owners and no-one has suggested that.

 

The owners don't decide to bring on a left back at 2-2 in a game you need to win though, or take off your most creative player when you need a goal (Benayoun against Lyon and Fulham).

 

Or play a left back in central midfield (Aurelio v Fiorentina).

 

Etc.

[Iantn]

Fair enough re: the edit.

 

And also the Hiddink thing. I don't think he's some kind of god, i'm just looking for solutions to our problems and he's one of them, in my view.

 

Having taken stock and chilled out for a bit, I wouldn't actually make any changes right now as I think Rafa deserves the whole season.

 

I'm just incredibly frustrated.

 

I'd certainly be having discussions with Hiddink though ahead of a possible move in the summer.

 

Can't disagree with ANY of that. We need to regroup and get ourselves right for the games coming up.

 

I'm yet to make any judgement on the season given we haven't seen our best 11 on the pitch. Let's get the players right and see what happens, for me.

[WaltonRed]

I dont think he does deserve the whole season.

[drewy]

I don't really know you personally I only see what you write on here. Accusing fellow reds of wanting the team to lose so that they are proven correct, is a shit bag thing to do. I don't care who writes it, that's how I feel.

 

Going off what you have written over a number of years I don't get the impression that you're a shitbag but you did make that accusation so...

 

I posted earlier today that if we all met up and had a pint together whilst watching the match, I reckon we'd all get along royally. I just think that the internet gives us a platform to just throw a few things out there without fear of recrimination.

 

If you met up and had a pint with the lads who you believe want us to lose, I genuinely feel that you would see it's a ridiculous thing to suggest.

 

But again that's just my view.

 

I agree and if you asked the lads who know me I'd like to think they'd say I'm far from a shitbag.

 

Incidentally I don't know the lads personally I'm referring too and I doubt you do either. If you thought I was referring to some of the regulars then you're mistaken Ian.

 

There are a thousand and one twats in this place at the moment and I'll bet only 10% are decent reds.

[Iantn]

Rafa isn't more to blame than the owners and no-one has suggested that.

 

The owners don't decide to bring on a left back at 2-2 in a game you need to win though, or take off your most creative player when you need a goal (Benayoun against Lyon and Fulham).

 

Or play a left back in central midfield (Aurelio v Fiorentina).

 

Etc.

 

Fair points.

 

It wasn't Fabio's first game in that position so Rafa obviously felt he could do a better job than the young lads at the club.

 

Neither of the Fulham or Lyon subs of Benayoun I agreed with.

 

I'm not 100% sure on the bringing on of Fabio today either, given we had Reira on the bench.

 

Given all that we'd have better options available, am sure, if we didn't have to sell to buy during the last 12 months, near as damn it anyway.

[WaltonRed]

What consitutes a decent red?

 

I dont know If I know anymore.

[Vincent Vega]

Another thing I haven't seen acknowledged and it was annoying me throughout when I watched the match after recording it on Sky, was that we are asked to play an early kick-off yet again after an international break and Andy cunting Gray is crying that they haven't got a classic and the crowd don't seem up for it. Well, if the dickheads in control of your fucking rip-off station had the gumption to realise that top teams don't function quite as well when a job lot of their players only arrived back in the country 24 bastard hours before the ridiculous kick-off time, and also realised that fans of all clubs despise such early kick-offs and the lack of booze that go with them, then you might have the tiniest reason for complaint. But until your employers stop making a complete fuck up of the footballing calendar, kindly keep your thoughts to yourself you ugly philandering twat.

[Vincent Vega]

What consitutes a decent red?

 

I dont know If I know anymore.

 

One who doesn't whinge at the first sign of setback?

[Brownie]

Fair points.

 

It wasn't Fabio's first game in that position so Rafa obviously felt he could do a better job than the young lads at the club.

 

Neither of the Fulham or Lyon subs of Benayoun I agreed with.

 

I'm not 100% sure on the bringing on of Fabio today either, given we had Reira on the bench.

 

Given all that we'd have better options available, am sure, if we didn't have to sell to buy during the last 12 months, near as damn it anyway.

 

True but would he use those better options? We had a £20M midfielder on the bench today who was ignored and last season we had a £20M striker who was largely ignored as well.

 

I'm starting to think that it doesn't matter how much money Rafa has, he'll always make the same kinds of decisions.

 

Let's say he had an unlimited amount of money; I think he'd still have brought on a Patrice Evra today ahead of a Martin Petrov and to me that is the point.

[WaltonRed]

1st sign?

 

That would of been a while before this terrible run to be fair though Vincent.

[stringvest]

I'm quite disappointed today - disappointed with yet more injuries, disappointed in some of the performances, and disappointed in the manager's tactics.

 

I don't care for Benitez, and I'll never be able to take anything he says at face value, but we can't get rid of him before the end of the season. We just agreed a 5 year deal with the man, we are in a chaotic financial state, and we're two draws and a defeat away from being out of every competition before the end of the first week in Jan. If he stays until the close season, any buyers will have let themselves be known, and will be able to make a decision on his future. If no new owners are coming in, he will be able to decide where his professional future lies.

 

If Benitez is any good as a manager, as I believe he is (though certainly not as good as some on here seem to think), he will surely be able to salvage something from this season; i.e. a Champions League place.

[Iantn]

True but would he use those better options? We had a £20M midfielder on the bench today who was ignored and last season we had a £20M striker who was largely ignored as well.

 

I'm starting to think that it doesn't matter how much money Rafa has, he'll always make the same kinds of decisions.

 

Let's say he had an unlimited amount of money; I think he'd still have brought on a Patrice Evra today ahead of a Martin Petrov and to me that is the point.

 

Possible he might have done but I still think that he'd be rightly judged on his decisions if he did this but given he hasn't really the options to do this I think that it's the wrong presume so.

 

Keane started up front every time that Nando didn't apart from Stoke away, I think, which isn't really ignoring him.

[WaltonRed]

I've said for a while I wouldnt trust him with a wedge of money and its down to what you say Brownie.

[Vincent Vega]

1st sign?

 

That would of been a while before this terrible run to be fair though Vincent.

 

Rafa's reign:

 

• 5th in league (shite), but European Cup winners
  

 

• 3rd in the league (82 points), and FA Cup winners
  

 

• 3rd in the league (68 points - shite), CL finalists - ultimately disappointing
  

 

• 4th in the league (76 points - average) and CL semis - unfulfilling, but Torres gave us all hope
  

 

• 2nd in the league (86 points - highest ever total since 3 points for a win) and CL quarters - first proper title challenge and best football since we last won the league
  

 

Let's see how this season pans out, we may still finish third and win the FA Cup, would that be the disaster of a season everyone is painting? I don't think so. If we finish outside the top four and trophyless, I might start joining in with those shouting for the manager's head. There's a long way to go yet before that happens though.

[WaltonRed]

Rafa's reign:

 

• 5th in league (shite), but European Cup winners
  

 

• 3rd in the league (82 points), and FA Cup winners
  

 

• 3rd in the league (68 points - shite), CL finalists - ultimately disappointing
  

 

• 4th in the league (76 points - average) and CL semis - unfulfilling, but Torres gave us all hope
  

 

• 2nd in the league (86 points - highest ever total since 3 points for a win) and CL quarters - first proper title challenge and best football since we last won the league
  

 

Let's see how this season pans out, we may still finish third and win the FA Cup, would that be the disaster of a season everyone is painting? I don't think so. If we finish outside the top four and trophyless, I might start joining in with those shouting for the manager's head. There's a long way to go yet before that happens though.

 

I'm not arguing with what you've written but it depends whether you accept whats been 'achieved' and I use that word loosely.

 

5th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th and 2nd is still not what we want.

[Vincent Vega]

I'm not arguing with what you've written but it depends whether you accept whats been 'achieved' and I use that word loosely.

 

5th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th and 2nd is still not what we want.

 

I don't want to do Catch 22's job, but do you honestly think we could have achieved better up against the spending of Abramovich and the strength and buying power of the Mancs who have been a position to cherry pick the very best English talent available for a long time now, to add to their already established talented squad?

[Croque Monsieur]

I don't want to do Catch 22's job, but do you honestly think we could have achieved better up against the spending of Abramovich and the strength and buying power of the Mancs who have been a position to cherry pick the very best English talent available for a long time now, to add to their already established talented squad?

 

We should've won the league last year against both those beauts. No excuses there.

[WaltonRed]

I don't want to do Catch 22's job, but do you honestly think we could have achieved better up against the spending of Abramovich and the strength and buying power of the Mancs who have been a position to cherry pick the very best English talent available for a long time now, to add to their already established talented squad?

 

I think we could and should of won the league last year.

 

The other seasons were the build up to that challenge i'll accept that but this season has seen us fall back so far its unreal.

 

We cant afford seasons like this, we cant afford to have one challenge every five seasons.

[kalasoma]

I got a ticket for the Hull v West Ham game today (family commitment). It felt really good not to be wholeheartedly invested in a game where I find myself with blood weeping from my eyeballs after another draw. Again. I felt good about being a Liverpool supporter because I learned to appreciate the futility of what other supporters go through watching and supporting their teams who sit at the bottom of the Premier League and will perhaps be relegated by seasons' end. It made me appreciate my team even more than I already do. Yes, even frustrating players like Babel (you haven't been frustrated until you've seen a player like Carlton Cole standing idly on the pitch). I can't wait to see Liverpool in Budapest next week.

[Vincent Vega]

We should've won the league last year against both those beauts. No excuses there.

 

I think we could and should of won the league last year.

 

The other seasons were the build up to that challenge i'll accept that but this season has seen us fall back so far its unreal.

 

We cant afford seasons like this, we cant afford to have one challenge every five seasons.

 

Possibly, it was certainly our best chance, especially with Chelsea making such a hash of things with Scolari in charge. I'm really not sure if we could be expected to finish above the Mancs given their pedigree, despite our fine start and Rafa's bullshit in January that was a massive own-goal. This year, the Mancs look weaker than ever with the loss of Ronaldo and Tevez, but Chelsea look formidable given their strength in depth and a manger of genuine European pedigree.

 

I'm as impatient for a league title win as everyone else on here, but I don't believe it is a realistic aim with our current owners and I don't believe sacking Rafa would change that.

[WaltonRed]

i suppose VV thats what it boils down to.

 

Do you think another manager could do better with the resources currently on offer.

[TaksimRakiClub]

Who's patronising now? .

 

I'm off to Hungary first thing Monday to support an under-performing team of highly paid professionals - why don't you pop along to the local garden centre or B & Q to sort out your christmas decorations?

 

Seriously, has there ever been a more wank post in the history of TLW than this fucking abortion?

 

Hey good comeback - you got me there.