For a player to be classed as the best in the world....

[George Costanza]

I disagree.

 

Most of all because I don't agree with the notion that the Premiership is somehow supposed to be much better than all the other leagues.

 

And you would be right as usual

 

The Premiership is vastly over-rated IMO. Yep the top four are strong but beyond that there is very little quality. In fact below tenth the teams are very shit.

[stevescouse]

To me world class means being the consistentey good in 90 per cent of your teams games over a period of 5years, to be world class in my opinion you need to be playing at the top level in your countrys leauge and Champions leauge/ south african equivalent.

The reason why i feel you cant use internationals and world cups unfortunley look at Rush, best they imo were world class but never played.

Gerard to me is the best player in the world for the following reasons

1) between 2002 - and 2005 he carried Liverpool with carra as well

2) Gerard consistentley has a great season s and can play in most positions

In liverpools side I would have 2 Gerrard and carragher.

If gerrard wespically between 2002 and 2005 would have had a better quality of players around him the way Ronaldo did at Manutd and barca he would have developed more and been more able to concentrate on his game

[G Richards]

I don't think a player needs to have been tested in the Prem to be seen as the best in the world. He would need to be playing in one of the great European teams though, and that would mean regular appearances in the later stages of the Champions League.

 

I think the Prem and La Liga are slightly ahead of Serie A in terms of quality at the moment, though if you are in a big team in Italy and do very well there, as well as in the latter stages of the CL, and you happen to play for a top country too, then you might still have a legitimate claim to be the world's best. I think for a couple of years Kaka might have been the best player in the world while at AC Milan while Ronaldinho was fading and Messi wasn't quite so established.

[ToxtethTerror]

I don't think a player needs to have been tested in the Prem to be seen as the best in the world. He would need to be playing in one of the great European teams though, and that would mean regular appearances in the later stages of the Champions League.

 

That rules out Pele.... oh and I agree.

[Hermes]

Yep the top four are strong but beyond that there is very little quality. In fact below tenth the teams are very shit.

 

I'd say the bottom half in the Premiership is way ahead of the bottom half in any other league. At that level in Germany, Italy and Spain they are way behind.

 

For proof, look at the squads at World Cups and European Championships and see how many play in those leagues - the Premiership is way ahead.

[ToxtethTerror]

I'd say the bottom half in the Premiership is way ahead of the bottom half in any other league. At that level in Germany, Italy and Spain they are way behind.

 

For proof, look at the squads at World Cups and European Championships and see how many play in those leagues - the Premiership is way ahead.

 

So why are we so shit in the Uefa cup Hermes?

[George Costanza]

I'd say the bottom half in the Premiership is way ahead of the bottom half in any other league. At that level in Germany, Italy and Spain they are way behind.

 

For proof, look at the squads at World Cups and European Championships and see how many play in those leagues - the Premiership is way ahead.

 

Individually they might have some good players but as a team i don't think so. Boro & Newcastle had numerous International players between them yet (especially in Newcastle's case) they've been some of the worst sides i've seen in years.

 

Real Betis got relegated from La Liga. I reckon they'd beat most premiership sides. All hypothetical of course.

[Hermes]

So why are we so shit in the Uefa cup Hermes?

 

Look up the winners of the Fairs Cup and UEFA Cup, post the counties with the most winners on here then define "shit".

[Section_31]

Good thread.

 

For me, when a player fails spectacularly in the premiership my opinion of them does go down a great deal. Veron was a good example. I always thought he looked like a world beater, but over here he looked like a little boy lost.

 

There's more to this shit here than just skill, if you haven't got the balls for a scrap then 'that don't impress me much'.

[ToxtethTerror]

Look up the winners of the Fairs Cup and UEFA Cup, post the counties with the most winners on here then define "shit".

 

Talking about NOW mate, not "back in the day".

[G Richards]

That rules out Pele.... oh and I agree.

 

Obviously I'm talking about in recent times. Going back to Pele's day he was clearly the best player in the world...then Cruyff...then Maradonna etc.

 

But in order to make sense of anyone's claims these days, I would suggest they need to be playing for one of the European greats and appearing in the latter stages of the champions league, making a clear impact on the biggest games. That's what the best do.

 

Somebody like a Benzema might prove to be an excellent striker, but he's a player who needs a move to an even bigger team to see how good he will become. Somebody like Torres was already in a great league, but he was not playing for one of the giants (although Atletico are a good team). With his move to Liverpool he kicked on and could be considered one of the best in the world. Aguero is doing very well indeed and looks like he will have a great future. But if he is to one day have a hope of being considered best in the world I think he's gonna need to move to a European giant at some point and do it in the latter stages of the CL.

[Hermes]

Talking about NOW mate, not "back in the day".

 

 

Now, as in last season? Middlesbrough reached the final a few years ago. How good are they in the Premiership?

 

 

Spain 11

England 10

Germany 6

Italy 10

 

As I said, define "shit".

[Lucky Pierre]

The premiership is obviously the best in the world. Depending on how clubs like Atléti, Valencia, Sevilla and Villarreal do in the transfer market, next year could see a change.

 

That doesn't mean you have to play there to be the best though. It really helps if you play against premiership teams, something which Messi did a few times in the last few years, and he pulls it off still, with the exception of the finishing. So I say we have the best goalies in the world. Ronaldinho also pulled it off when he played against Chelsea.

 

I can't decide between Gerrard and Messi as to who's the best player. On a normal day I say Gerrard. But then when I see Messi play I change my mind for that whole match until the next time I see Gerrard play (live or a clip).

 

There was a thread a few weeks ago on the offal forums comparing each team from La Liga/Prem. (Utd/Barca, Real/Us, Sevilla/Chelsea etc) and the general consensus was that the Spanish League had better teams in general. Look at Sevilla a few years ago, they blitzed the UEFA Cup 2 years running, then put up a good fight in the CL. Our equivalent team, Everton, did nothing. Boro got to a final using a few Istanbul-inspired comebacks but couldn't pull it off one last time.

 

Answer: No, as it may not actually be the best in the world.

[jamespp]

What I was going for was because the league in this country is widely viewed as the best in the world

 

By the english media, just like Man Utd are the biggest club in the world according to the english media

 

I doubt people in S.America or Spain are thinking The English league is the best in the world

[RedBrian84]

By the english media, just like Man Utd are the biggest club in the world according to the english media

 

I doubt people in S.America or Spain are thinking The English league is the best in the world

 

 

I don't know you know, I mean, look at the likes of Africa- they're football bonkers over there and I'll bet that the most popular clubs, and the most watched league is the Premiership. Same goes for the far east I reckon.

[INTORRESTING]

Why is it that people say you shouldn't rely on international tournaments to judge a player but maradona and pele are widely classed as the best two ever?

[Red Phoenix]

What? Read the original reply to my first post. Maradona, Pele and Cruyff had all retired when the Premiershop started.

 

Is that what Perez calls it?

[RedBrian84]

Is that what Perez calls it?

 

Haha, messy typing is one of my many weaknesses.

[Guest]

While the English national team continues to be such a huge source of humour to everyone else on the world and European stage every 2 years, the answer will remain categorically no.

As England continue to fail (43 years and counting) it becomes more and more clear that the reason the English league is so strong at the minute is because some of the best foreign players play for the top few clubs.

They're not the best players because they play in England - the English clubs buy them (or try to, in Kaka's case) because they're the best players.

Their English equivalents aren't good enough to win those teams the Premiership and Champions' League.

Whether Messi could survive getting lumps kicked out of him in Stoke on a Tuesday night doesn't decide if he's the best player in the world, for me.

When you see England get completely outclassed by a France, Italy, Spain, Brazil or Argentina - then you realise that playing in the Premiership has fuck all to do with it.

[Antynwa]

Nope, I don't think so anyway, Zidane is a good example. Zidane could have walked into any squad in this league, and be brilliant as well. He had the strength, stature and sheer ability to do so.

 

Torres wasn't as effective in La Liga as he is in the English League, so it's really down to how a player players. English football is a very strong game, some can cut it, some can't Morientes being a good example, someone who IMO was one of the best strikers of modern times. Just because he couldn't cut it here shouldn't go against him, likewise with Shevchenko.

 

Good thread, but I think the term 'best player in the world' is subjective. People think Placcy Ronaldo is the best player in the world, personally I think he's a cunt.

[TommyW]

people wank over the spanish league just because its spain

 

aside from the top clubs (they have 2, we have 4) the rest of the league is as bad or worse than the Prem

 

the prem is the strongest league in my opinion, less said about Italy the better

[2Goals1Cup]

people wank over the spanish league just because its spain

 

aside from the top clubs (they have 2, we have 4) the rest of the league is as bad or worse than the Prem

 

the prem is the strongest league in my opinion, less said about Italy the better

 

Don't be fucking stupid. Going by last season's finishing positions.

 

Barcelona > Man United = LL

Liverpool > Real Madrid = PL

Chelsea > Sevilla = PL

Atletico = Arsenal = Draw, possibly PL

Villarreal > Everton = LL

Valencia > Aston Villa = LL

Deportivo > Everton = LL

Tottenham Hotspur > Malaga = PL

West Ham United > Mallorca = PL

Manchester City > Espanyol = PL

Almeria > Wigan = LL

Racing Santander > Stoke City = LL

Athletic Bilbao > Bolton = LL

Portsmouth > Sporting Gijon = PL

Valladolid > Blackburn Rovers = LL

Osasuna > Sunderland = LL

Getafe > Hull City = LL

Real Betis > Newcastle = LL

Numancia > Middlesbrough = LL

West Brom > Recreativo = PL

 

Subjective of course, but your bolded point is fuckwittery in the extreme.

[aladdinsane]

I think some people are skeptical to other countries leagues being a worthy indicator of world class is because examples of players such as Forlan,Morientes etc. who have flopped badly here, but are world beaters in Spain. I guess not enough top English players travel abroad to see if they could cut it in La Liga like they do in Premier League.

[Jose Jones]

While the English national team continues to be such a huge source of humour to everyone else on the world and European stage every 2 years, the answer will remain categorically no.

As England continue to fail (43 years and counting) it becomes more and more clear that the reason the English league is so strong at the minute is because some of the best foreign players play for the top few clubs.

They're not the best players because they play in England - the English clubs buy them (or try to, in Kaka's case) because they're the best players.

Their English equivalents aren't good enough to win those teams the Premiership and Champions' League.

Whether Messi could survive getting lumps kicked out of him in Stoke on a Tuesday night doesn't decide if he's the best player in the world, for me.

When you see England get completely outclassed by a France, Italy, Spain, Brazil or Argentina - then you realise that playing in the Premiership has fuck all to do with it.

 

Nah that's bollocks. Spain had failed abysmally in every international tournament going for years until the last Euros, does that rule out any player who had played in Spain for the last 30 years from being the best in the world?

Seems like your anti-Ingerlund bias is shining through there.

 

Still I really agree with the main point, a player has to have dominated over a number of years in one of the top European leagues – at the moment I’d say this is the Premier League and La Liga, maybe at a push Serie A (certainly 2 years ago and beyond), done well in Europe and also shone in either the World Cup, or possibly European Championship (that’s a bit of a push though as well). I don’t think there’s been a definitive “best player in the world” since Zidane was at his peak in the late 90s, early 00s. Won stuff and scored brilliant goals at club level (including European Cup final), and won a world cup final. Ronaldinho had a spell where it could have been him, it should have been fat Ronaldo but he got too many injuries and lately maybe Henry, Kaka, Gerrard and Messi (and grudgingly Placky Ronaldo) have been contenders, but none of these have joined the Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, Zidane lineage yet for me. Got to do it on the world stage.

[TommyW]

Don't be fucking stupid. Going by last season's finishing positions.

 

Barcelona > Man United = LL

Liverpool > Real Madrid = PL

Chelsea > Sevilla = PL

Atletico = Arsenal = Draw, possibly PL

Villarreal > Everton = LL

Valencia > Aston Villa = LL

Deportivo > Everton = LL

Tottenham Hotspur > Malaga = PL

West Ham United > Mallorca = PL

Manchester City > Espanyol = PL

Almeria > Wigan = LL

Racing Santander > Stoke City = LL

Athletic Bilbao > Bolton = LL

Portsmouth > Sporting Gijon = PL

Valladolid > Blackburn Rovers = LL

Osasuna > Sunderland = LL

Getafe > Hull City = LL

Real Betis > Newcastle = LL

Numancia > Middlesbrough = LL

West Brom > Recreativo = PL

 

Subjective of course, but your bolded point is fuckwittery in the extreme.

 

that makes no sense whatsoever