For a player to be classed as the best in the world....

[RedBrian84]

...he has to have proven himself in the Premiership.

 

Discuss.

[ToxtethTerror]

Ha Ha.... Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Cruyff etc were shit cos they didn't scrap it with Terry Butcher in this league.

[RedBrian84]

Ha Ha.... Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Cruyff etc were shit cos they didn't scrap it with Terry Butcher in this league.

 

 

Just a few things:

 

Firstly, I was hoping for some sensible discussion.

 

Secondly, all bar Zidane had retired by the time of the conception of the Premiership.

 

What I was going for was because the league in this country is widely viewed as the best in the world, then surely it stands to reason that the very best players should want to play here?

 

Now, I reckon myself that Steven Gerrard is the best all round player in the world. There would be people who would say Messi, or Ronaldinho in his prime, or Kaka, and so on.

 

However I would love to see how they would fare in the English Premiership.

 

I've absolutely no idea why you pulled Terry Butcher out of your arse as if I was making some grand patriotic gesture, but there you go.

[ToxtethTerror]

Life didn't start in the Premiership... did it? English teams were winning European Cups in the 70's too... so the teams have always been pretty good.. Heysel set us back thats all.

 

It would also be good to see how English players fare in Spain and Italy especially in the heat...

[Steve Holt]

Isn't it widely viewed by the English press and... who else? Seriously. Outside of England how many people are so sure that the premiership is better than La Liga? Its a joke. I don't think a player has to prove himself in the Premiership, he just has to prove himself in A top league. La Liga and, to an extent, Serie A count. But more than that, he must play for one of the top teams in that league and play consistently well in both domestic competition and european competition. So Ruud Van Horse is in cos he has proven himself in both england and spain and europe, while Zlatan misses out cos he is so unbelievably shit in the Champions League and has only proven his worth in the bottom of the top 3.

 

Thats my opinion anyway.

[Red Phoenix]

Don't agree really, because if they need to prove themselves against PL teams they can just play a big part in trouncing them in Europe instead. If they can do it against PL teams in europe then the rest of the league will probably have no chance.

 

I don't think they have to play at a faster pace + have the strength and endurance to do that for 90 mins and get clattered by a few nuggets from some teams over here just to prove they're the best. It proves that they can also be effective in our league, but it shouldn't decide whether or not they're good enough to be classed the best in the world.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Red Phoenix

[WaltonRed]

They have to do it in a major European league for me.

[elvis]

Just a few things:

 

Firstly, I was hoping for some sensible discussion.

 

Secondly, all bar Zidane had retired by the time of the conception of the Premiership.

 

What I was going for was because the league in this country is widely viewed as the best in the world, then surely it stands to reason that the very best players should want to play here?

 

Now, I reckon myself that Steven Gerrard is the best all round player in the world. There would be people who would say Messi, or Ronaldinho in his prime, or Kaka, and so on.

 

However I would love to see how they would fare in the English Premiership.

 

I've absolutely no idea why you pulled Terry Butcher out of your arse as if I was making some grand patriotic gesture, but there you go.

 

Have to agree with you there, no one else even comes close in the "all round " category for me.

[Trucker Paddy]

Zidane is the greatest European player of all time and IMO second only to Maradona who also did'nt play in England,Messi is the best player on the planet Kaka is up there with him, fuckin stupid thread this is.

[Scott_M]

.....he has to be called Steven Gerrard

[DT]

I disagree.

 

Most of all because I don't agree with the notion that the Premiership is somehow supposed to be much better than all the other leagues.

[ToxtethTerror]

The PL Champions have just been humiliated by Spain's finest too...

[Original202]

I'm not convinced they have to make it in the premier league. However, I would expect them to make it in two different countries - and really, that means in at least 2 of England, Italy, Spain and possibly Germany - and be a consistent performer in the champions league and at international level.

 

There are exceptions - Steven Gerrard, Raul etc who spend their entire career with the same clubs. But if a player can make it in more than one country then they're doing something right. Not just for being able to play in different football environments, but also adapting to the lifestyle and culture change.

 

The premier league though is different in that it's a lot more physical than Spain and Spanish football is perhaps better suited to players like Messi. There's isn't much debate about how good he is, but I'd love to see him tested in this country as well.

[The Dude Abides]

No. Don't be daft. Messi and Kaka may never play in the PL, Ronaldinho either, all have been at one point or another the best players in the World.

 

Secondly, all bar Zidane had retired by the time of the conception of the Premiership.

 

Dear Jesus!

[Steve Holt]

There are exceptions - Steven Gerrard, Raul etc who spend their entire career with the same clubs. But if a player can make it in more than one country then they're doing something right. Not just for being able to play in different football environments, but also adapting to the lifestyle and culture change.

 

Another obvious exception would be Paolo Maldini. Also Casillas is already thought of as world class having only played for Real. And Messi at Barca. And Giggs at United. Even Del Piero who's spent his whole career in Italy. In general as long as you can prove yourself in Europe and internationally, it doesnt matter how many countries you play in.

[Guest alscarface]

...he has to have proven himself in the Premiership.

 

Discuss.

 

No he doesn't . End of discussion.

[Trumo]

...he has to be playing in one of the top leagues in Europe, at a club regularly challenging for honours both domestic and European, as well as being integral to both his club and national team. He must have finished top in either the FIFA World Player or Golden Ball awards. He must have played a blinder in some major international tournament. He has to be on Real Madrid's shopping list (if not already with them), as well as having major endorsements with the likes of Adidas, Nike, Coca Cola, Pepsi or Sony. He also has to have his face on the cover of either PES or Fifa.

[RedBrian84]

No. Don't be daft. Messi and Kaka may never play in the PL, Ronaldinho either, all have been at one point or another the best players in the World.

 

 

 

Dear Jesus!

 

What? Read the original reply to my first post. Maradona, Pele and Cruyff had all retired when the Premiershop started.

[RedBrian84]

]Life didn't start in the Premiership[/b]... did it? English teams were winning European Cups in the 70's too... so the teams have always been pretty good.. Heysel set us back thats all.

 

It would also be good to see how English players fare in Spain and Italy especially in the heat...

 

 

What the fuck? Did I mention or suggest that it did? Pay attention. What I was saying was that NOW, as in NOW being the present day- the English Premiership is the best in the world. Yes, we can point to the fact that Barca destroyed United in the CL final but look at the past five seasons- how many times have English clubs been in the Quarters, Semis and Finals?

 

The fact is that this league is the most competitive and, based on the last season, closely fought division in Europe. Teams in the relegation zone can come out and beat any of the top four. So the orginal discussion point was thus: if a player really fancied himself to be the best in the business, then surely he would want to go where the best in the business plyed their trade?

 

When Zidane went to Madrid, he did so when La Liga was at the height of its powers, when the whole world looked at the Spanish league and thought "fuck me, there's some great football being played there".

 

You make an interesting point regarding players from teams in this country playing abroad and strangely they don't seem to travel well, which is puzzling. Perhaps it is the weather, who knows.

 

Me personally I would love to see the Kaka's and the Messi's playing in the Premiership, but neither for me are as good as Gerrard.

[Kelwell]

No he doesn't . End of discussion.

 

Shocking thread.

[The Dude Abides]

What? Read the original reply to my first post. Maradona, Pele and Cruyff had all retired when the Premiershop started.

 

And the Premiership "starting" means what exactly? Did football suddenly change?

[ToxtethTerror]

What the fuck? Did I mention or suggest that it did? Pay attention. What I was saying was that NOW, as in NOW being the present day- the English Premiership is the best in the world. Yes, we can point to the fact that Barca destroyed United in the CL final but look at the past five seasons- how many times have English clubs been in the Quarters, Semis and Finals?

 

The fact is that this league is the most competitive and, based on the last season, closely fought division in Europe. Teams in the relegation zone can come out and beat any of the top four. So the orginal discussion point was thus: if a player really fancied himself to be the best in the business, then surely he would want to go where the best in the business plyed their trade?

 

When Zidane went to Madrid, he did so when La Liga was at the height of its powers, when the whole world looked at the Spanish league and thought "fuck me, there's some great football being played there".

 

You make an interesting point regarding players from teams in this country playing abroad and strangely they don't seem to travel well, which is puzzling. Perhaps it is the weather, who knows.

 

Me personally I would love to see the Kaka's and the Messi's playing in the Premiership, but neither for me are as good as Gerrard.

 

Of the last 5 Champions Leagues, 1 has been won by Milan, 1 by United, 1 by us, and 2 by Barcelona - can't you get more even than that... these European teams are being tested against Premiership's finest in the Champions league and they aren't doing too bad.

 

I totally disagree about lower teams beating top teams etc, we get record points totals, the top 4 are miles apart, and teams are winning the league only losing a couple whereas in Spain and Italy the top teams lose quite a few each season.

 

As for the point about "best in the world"... well Spain and Italy are part of the rest of the world and no player on these shores can be classed the world's best without playing there can they? Well Ronaldo did and he deserved it.. I think your point although well intentioned is totally wrong.

[RedBrian84]

Zidane is the greatest European player of all time and IMO second only to Maradona who also did'nt play in England,Messi is the best player on the planet Kaka is up there with him, fuckin stupid thread this is.

 

 

How's it stupid? I asked for some opinions and you gave yours. I think that Messi is outstanding yes, and for me a close second behind Gerrard. Probably based mainly on the fact that Gerrard can do pretty much anything on a football pitch, play anywhere and doesn't appear to have any real weaknesses.

 

Yes, Messi can too influence and decide the outcome of games, I suppose its all a matter of what you want from your player. Messi couldn't step up and play right back in a major European Cup final for instance and defend against a natural winger. At least, I don't think he could.

[RedBrian84]

Of the last 5 Champions Leagues, 1 has been won by Milan, 1 by United, 1 by us, and 2 by Barcelona - can't you get more even than that... these European teams are being tested against Premiership's finest in the Champions league and they aren't doing too bad.

 

I totally disagree about lower teams beating top teams etc, we get record points totals, the top 4 are miles apart, and teams are winning the league only losing a couple whereas in Spain and Italy the top teams lose quite a few each season.

 

As for the point about "best in the world"... well Spain and Italy are part of the rest of the world and no player on these shores can be classed the world's best without playing there can they? Well Ronaldo did and he deserved it.. I think your point although well intentioned is totally wrong.

 

 

You make a fair point there, once I'd posted the thread I realised that of course it's incredibly rare for any player based here to be a major success in any other major division. I suppose therefore that Barca fans would simply say "of course Messi could succeed in the Premiership" in the same way that our fans would think the same about Gerrard.

 

I wasn't committing myself to either side of the debate really, I just wanted to see what people thought.

[Hermes]

He has to be consistently head and shoulders above players in his own league for at least 3 seasons. If, and when his country qualifies for the major international tournaments he has to prove in those tournaments that he is one of the best players in the world.

 

Those that do are, those that don't aren't.