Manc game on Saturday – a suggestion

[Magic_H]

Judging by this thread, i think its a f_uckin waste of time. Uniteds fans have no scruples and the sick chants are getting worse by the yr.

 

http://www.si-sv1646.com/showthread.php?t=4985

[dave u]

Red issue is a site for all their lowest common denominator scum. They invaded here once posting about Heysel, Shields, Hillsborough etc. Did it in the early hours of the morning, about half a dozen or more of them.

 

They actually planned it on the red issue forum, but the people who run it did nothing about it.

 

If people on here were posting about going to a manc site and posting Munich & Shipman stuff, they'd have been banned instantly.

 

Red Issue is just a bad chav site.

[kopitegaz]

It's people who pride themselves on how much of a prick they are. Probably proud of the fact they can't read or write too. Wear it like a big sparkley bagde of honour

 

"Yeah kidda, fuckin' soft la goes an buys a fuckin' book, fuckin' right twat la. Wanna go happyslap a stranger la?"

 

I do wish all the scally pricks that follow us who just do one and fuck off.

[bobhorse]

I also think its a cracking idea

 

Could have a banner paraded around the pitch carried by 3 of them and three of us

 

It will never happen but it would be a start

 

It would be a start alright, but i would put my money on them kicking the shit out of each other, before the lap was completed.

[bobhorse]

Red issue is a site for all their lowest common denominator scum. They invaded here once posting about Heysel, Shields, Hillsborough etc. Did it in the early hours of the morning, about half a dozen or more of them.

 

They actually planned it on the red issue forum, but the people who run it did nothing about it.

 

If people on here were posting about going to a manc site and posting Munich & Shipman stuff, they'd have been banned instantly

Red Issue is just a bad chav site.

 

And that is why we are a special race

[Guest Far and Tether]

Red issue is a site for all their lowest common denominator scum. They invaded here once posting about Heysel, Shields, Hillsborough etc. Did it in the early hours of the morning, about half a dozen or more of them.

 

They actually planned it on the red issue forum, but the people who run it did nothing about it.

 

If people on here were posting about going to a manc site and posting Munich & Shipman stuff, they'd have been banned instantly.

 

Red Issue is just a bad chav site.

 

It pains me to say it, but I agree with this. Don't take the general tenor of a site like RI and assume all Manc fans are like that.

[BENIRL]

It pains me to say it, but I agree with this. Don't take the general tenor of a site like RI and assume all Manc fans are like that.

 

Gone fuck off!

[Guest Far and Tether]

Gone fuck off!

 

Uh? Is that supposed to make sense?

[fivetimes]

Why should we pander to that lot??

Why should WE be the ones trying to make a comparison?

They know exactly what happened that sad day but it doesnt fit into their agenda.

 

A few points;

 

1) Its NOTHING like Hillsborough.

2) It will be thrown back at us as some sort of "self pity" shite.

3) Fuck them. Not strictly a point but there you go.

4) Come back after listening to 2 hours of their bile on Saturday and say that you still agree with this.

[rargh]

How about we continue to support our team and simply let them sing their sick songs loud and proud, unchallenged? Fuck them. Let them sing their bile at full volume and show the world what cunts they really are.

[Neil G]

Why should we pander to that lot??

Why should WE be the ones trying to make a comparison?

They know exactly what happened that sad day but it doesnt fit into their agenda.

 

A few points;

 

1) Its NOTHING like Hillsborough.

2) It will be thrown back at us as some sort of "self pity" shite.

3) Fuck them. Not strictly a point but there you go.

4) Come back after listening to 2 hours of their bile on Saturday and say that you still agree with this.

 

Why is it pandering? If there's a message in there that can be boiled down to a few words, it's not 'we feel your pain'. It's 'this could have been you, so shut the fuck up'. Even if the Manc fans don't get it, plenty of fans of other teams will. And if the Mancs spend the whole game singing about Hillsborough after we've made a public point about it, then their hypocrisy and ignorance will be exposed in front of a TV audience of millions, and maybe the media who never, ever mention the shite they come out with will finally be forced to recognise it.

[robslappa]

Why is it pandering? If there's a message in there that can be boiled down to a few words, it's not 'we feel your pain'. It's 'this could have been you, so shut the fuck up'. Even if the Manc fans don't get it, plenty of fans of other teams will. And if the Mancs spend the whole game singing about Hillsborough after we've made a public point about it, then their hypocrisy and ignorance will be exposed in front of a TV audience of millions, and maybe the media who never, ever mention the shite they come out with will finally be forced to recognise it.

 

Their match going away fans won't give a shit what gesture we show or whatever message we try to get across. THEY DON'T CARE.

 

They've been singing their songs for years and the press haven't mentioned it, look at the FA cup game last season when 6,000 fans sang "You killed your own fans" and there was nothing mentioned except in the Echo, yet it was front page news about the ambulance.

 

Also, what happened last week was not like Hillsborough - no one lost their lives last week and if we try and show any parralell (sp) all we're going to get is "Self Pit City" sang at us all game.

 

If the press had any balls they'd pick print the songs they sing on Saturday anyway - but I won't hold my breath.

[rome 84]

Sorry mate, I know your intentions are good but the idea is shite.

I feel no moral responsibility to try and put those twats straight about the bile they sing. Nor do I feel any need to score points or claim the moral high ground so I really can't see what the motive would be.

Let them be the pricks that they are. We'll just get on with supporting our own team.

[Neil G]

Their match going away fans won't give a shit what gesture we show or whatever message we try to get across. THEY DON'T CARE.

 

They've been singing their songs for years and the press haven't mentioned it, look at the FA cup game last season when 6,000 fans sang "You killed your own fans" and there was nothing mentioned except in the Echo, yet it was front page news about the ambulance.

 

Also, what happened last week was not like Hillsborough - no one lost their lives last week and if we try and show any parralell (sp) all we're going to get is "Self Pit City" sang at us all game.

 

If the press had any balls they'd pick print the songs they sing on Saturday anyway - but I won't hold my breath.

 

 

Sorry mate, I know your intentions are good but the idea is shite.

I feel no moral responsibility to try and put those twats straight about the bile they sing. Nor do I feel any need to score points or claim the moral high ground so I really can't see what the motive would be.

Let them be the pricks that they are. We'll just get on with supporting our own team.

 

Firstly, even if the Manc fans sang about it all game, it might be enough to shame their club into doing something about it. I admit that it's a long shot though.

 

Secondly, and maybe more realistically, the gesture would be aimed as much at fans of other teams as at the Mancs. When I talk about drawing a parallel between Hillsborough and the Lille game, I obviously don't mean that the two were as bad as each other, but rather that the factors that caused Hillsborough – incompetent ticketing and stewarding arrangements, shit policing and pitchside fences – were the same factors behind the trouble at the Lille game. Drawing attention to what happened at Lille might be an opportunity to educate fans of all clubs about why Hillsborough happened, even if the gesture is wasted on the Mancs.

[Magic_H]

Drawing attention to what happened at Lille might be an opportunity to educate fans of all clubs about why Hillsborough happened, even if the gesture is wasted on the Mancs.

 

Yes but its not all clubs that need to be educated over hillsborough. Who else sings songs about it? Im not saying hillsborough ignorance is isolated to man utd fans, but the fact is, they are not interested in listening to the truth about hillsborough, only in singing songs in a sick wind up.

 

Red Issue may be the most vile and hardcore of man u sites, but how many of the 73000 mancs at OT earlier in the season were singing songs about heysel, hillsborough, shields, etc? it certainly wasnt a minority.

 

A 'no more hillsboroughs' banner, mosiac, etc, would be akin to piss_ing in the wind where utds away crowd are concerned, it will only blow back and hit us in our face. They will just sing the killed your own fans song louder knowing it gets to us. F_uck them off to sing their songs and hide behind the massive police protection they always get at our ground.

[Mr Moustache]

When they start with the Hillsborough songs, simply respond with "Were you singing that in Lille?"

 

:thumbup:

[Neil G]

Yes but its not all clubs that need to be educated over hillsborough. Who else sings songs about it? Im not saying hillsborough ignorance is isolated to man utd fans, but the fact is, they are not interested in listening to the truth about hillsborough, only in singing songs in a sick wind up.

 

Red Issue may be the most vile and hardcore of man u sites, but how many of the 73000 mancs at OT earlier in the season were singing songs about heysel, hillsborough, shields, etc? it certainly wasnt a minority.

 

A 'no more hillsboroughs' banner, mosiac, etc, would be akin to piss_ing in the wind where utds away crowd are concerned, it will only blow back and hit us in our face. They will just sing the killed your own fans song louder knowing it gets to us. F_uck them off to sing their songs and hide behind the massive police protection they always get at our ground.

 

The Mancs are by far the worst, but there are unfortunately fans of almost all clubs who still believe that Liverpool fans were to blame for Hillsborough. Not enough for them to sing about it, but enough to make it worthwhile trying to put them straight.

 

I assume you're the same Magic H who backed my idea up on RAOTL? Thanks for doing that, but you seem to have changed your tune a bit. Like you said, trying something is better than doing nothing.

[L36]

Sorry mate, I know your intentions are good but the idea is shite.

I feel no moral responsibility to try and put those twats straight about the bile they sing. Nor do I feel any need to score points or claim the moral high ground so I really can't see what the motive would be.

Let them be the pricks that they are. We'll just get on with supporting our own team.

 

Is right

[Guest Far and Tether]

Drawing attention to what happened at Lille might be an opportunity to educate fans of all clubs about why Hillsborough happened, even if the gesture is wasted on the Mancs.

 

Has it escaped everyone's attention that I'm a Manc? Alright, no longer a matchgoing fan, but can everyone stop the patronising shite that seems to suggest we shed IQ points the further East we go along the M62 (or East Lancs)? I get it. I get what Neil is saying. If I get it, I'm sure there are other United fans who will. Hillsborough could've happened to anyone. There, spelled it out, even.

[robslappa]

Has it escaped everyone's attention that I'm a Manc? Alright, no longer a matchgoing fan, but can everyone stop the patronising shite that seems to suggest we shed IQ points the further East we go along the M62 (or East Lancs)? I get it. I get what Neil is saying. If I get it, I'm sure there are other United fans who will. Hillsborough could've happened to anyone. There, spelled it out, even.

 

You said it yourself, you don't go the game. Any message would be wasted on the matchgoers.

 

As for patronising, maybe you should read your post again.

[declan]

Ever since the trouble at the Lille-Man U game last week I've been wondering about how that incident could be used – as in used constructively, not exploited – in order to get more Man United fans, and football fans in general, to understand the truth about Hillsborough.

 

This may not be an appropriate idea, and even if it is there probably wouldn't be time to arrange anything before Saturday. But what do people think of putting on some sort of big crowd gesture at the Manc game to draw parallels between Hillsborough and what happened at the Lille game? Not necessarily a full-on six minute chant like at the Arsenal game, perhaps something that's not quite so exclusive to Liverpool. Maybe something along the lines of 'No More Hillsboroughs'.

 

I presume there will be a lot of Manc fans at Anfield on Saturday who were at the Lille game and caught up in the problems, and who also sing about Hillsborough. Some of them will be proper wankers who will carry on singing it regardless, but there are bound to be a lot who just join in sheep-like. Anything that could make them genuinely think twice before singing any of that shit (and maybe by extension, stuff about Heysel as well) has got to be worth a go? Particularly while the Lille game is still fresh in their memory and in the headlines.

 

If we could use a public gesture at a big televised game to show that what happened at Hillsborough could have happened to anyone, then it could do a lot to educate people, especially coming off the back of the six minutes back in January. If we could do it in a way that doesn't come across as antagonistic – i.e. taking pleasure in the fact that Man United fans had a scary experience that could have turned into something a lot worse – then we might also be able to take a bit of the hostility out of the relationship between the two sets of fans, and show our class at the same time.

 

I don't want this thread to go off into another discussion about RTK, but if the idea was a goer then I'd have thought the people behind RTK would be the best people to get something arranged, presumably with the club's help if they permitted it.

 

Thoughts?

 

Would never work, too many cunts would sing about it regardless.

[Neil G]

Has it escaped everyone's attention that I'm a Manc? Alright, no longer a matchgoing fan, but can everyone stop the patronising shite that seems to suggest we shed IQ points the further East we go along the M62 (or East Lancs)? I get it. I get what Neil is saying. If I get it, I'm sure there are other United fans who will. Hillsborough could've happened to anyone. There, spelled it out, even.

 

I think the real problem here is that not enough people on this forum, and not enough Liverpool fans in general, have a clear overall knowledge of how United's fanbase think and act regarding Hillsborough.

 

Almost all of the impressions seem to have come from observing the behaviour of their away fans. It does seem that for most games, a big majority of them sing about Heysel in the 'two times' song, but I honestly can't say I remember hearing Hillsborough songs as often as that when I'm watching and listening on TV. (Obviously against us it's different.) What have other people found? Are the Hillsborough songs sung with the same gusto and frequency as 'two times' when they're playing other teams? Has anybody listened carefully throughout the whole of a Manc game? Not that anyone would want to I suppose.

 

I know that both songs are nasty shit, but singing about Hillsborough for me is much more so than the 'two times' one. That at least is just about understandable, although not at all excusable, as it's the only thing they can think of to sing in response to Istanbul. Singing about Hillsborough on the other hand is nothing more than gratuitous spite.

 

I'm not having it that there are no decent match-going Manc fans who understand and sympathise with Liverpool's pain over Hillsborough. There must be loads, at home games if not away – in a fanbase that size it's impossible for there not to be. I would bet that at the moment they don't feel numerous or confident enough to challenge the mob of wankers that sing about it. If anything is to change, a way needs to be found to identify them and encourage them to do something about it.

 

F&T – does IMUSA still exist? If any group could achieve anything then surely it would be them, or someone like them. Independent fans' groups often combine a fairly high level of influence with a concern for the reputation of their club, although I don't know whether this is the case for United. It would be interesting to test the water and see what their attitude is to Hillsborough songs, and whether they think anything can ever be done about them.

[Magic_H]

 

I assume you're the same Magic H who backed my idea up on RAOTL? Thanks for doing that, but you seem to have changed your tune a bit. Like you said, trying something is better than doing nothing.

 

Yes, the very same Magic_H. I do agree with you in principle, but in reality, but after reading red issue, etc, they really dont give a f_uck, and knowing man utds away following, any protest would be ridiculed.

 

A 'no more hillsboroughs' banner, mosiac, or whatever, coupled with statements from relatives of munich, hillsborough dead, statements from LFC/MUFC appealing for an end to this stuff along with big media coverage may calm things a bit, but its not going to happen. Both clubs seem to be apathetic to whats going on, and both sets of fans have indulged in tit for tat battles for who can come up with the lowest song. Its all gone pete tonge

 

On another site, a manc going on about 'without killing anyone' was told he was incorrect because the elderly boro couple, the 14 yr spurs fan in the 80s and the palace fan in 90s died at the hands of man u fans. His response 'good facts, but they werent in europe' as if that was alright then.

 

Unfortunately, something, it seems something really really bad is going to have to happen before people snap out of the vicious circle of hatred, and realise, 'is all this fucking shit worth it?'

 

An away fan ban when we play each other is on the cards if things continue to slide.

[Neil G]

Yes, the very same Magic_H. I do agree with you in principle, but in reality, but after reading red issue, etc, they really dont give a f_uck, and knowing man utds away following, any protest would be ridiculed.

 

A 'no more hillsboroughs' banner, mosiac, or whatever, coupled with statements from relatives of munich, hillsborough dead, statements from LFC/MUFC appealing for an end to this stuff along with big media coverage may calm things a bit, but its not going to happen. Both clubs seem to be apathetic to whats going on, and both sets of fans have indulged in tit for tat battles for who can come up with the lowest song. Its all gone pete tonge

 

On another site, a manc going on about 'without killing anyone' was told he was incorrect because the elderly boro couple, the 14 yr spurs fan in the 80s and the palace fan in 90s died at the hands of man u fans. His response 'good facts, but they werent in europe' as if that was alright then.

 

Unfortunately, something, it seems something really really bad is going to have to happen before people snap out of the vicious circle of hatred, and realise, 'is all this fucking shit worth it?'

 

An away fan ban when we play each other is on the cards if things continue to slide.

 

As I've said here and also in the message that Kopite posted for me on RAOTL this morning, there were two objectives to my idea. Trying to get through to the Mancs was only one of them, the other was to use the Lille incident to educate fans of other clubs.

 

In hindsight I don't think I did enough to make the two objectives distinct from each other, and everyone has focused on the Manc one. I can completely understand why though, the fact that it's them makes the whole thing much more difficult. I can see now that the idea was a non-starter, if it had been any other club then it might have worked.

 

Despite that, something still has to be done, I agree with you on that. As I said in my previous post, I think raising the issue with Manc fans' groups is the place to start.

[theboyreilly]

The idea and intention is to be commended Neil G,I posted yesterday and got the wrong end of the stick you were trying to give. As you said,if it were any other club it wouldn't be a problem but we are trying to overcome years of bitter rivalary and hatred and there will always be a minority of every fanbase that will use the most hurtful events of a clubs past to hurt them the most...