Our Attack

[Supremolad]

6 hours ago, Pidge said:

 

Still think Diaz should be hammering a shot across goal (although to be fair the pass holds up a bit more than I remember). Two players following in, I think that's what Nunez is anticipating as well, slows ever so slightly before then having to speed up to get to the pass.

 

On the whole I'm not too worried. We need John back on the pod to give some perspective on our attacking unit. We're so wasteful, but it's margins really. Diaz (although stretching), Dom (from Robbo) and Mo all fluffed much clearer chances than the above. Those were much more about just not doing the right thing, technically. 

 

 

Spot on. But I'm not surprised to see Code posting a video hanging Darwin out to dry on that incident and insinuating he has no game intelligence. He has showed game intelligence many times. 13 assists he has this season, which is the highest.

 

Our other forwards wasted far clearer chances. And in the past few games Salah for example, has failed to do the smart thing on numerous occasions. Not that you would ever see Code posting a clip of those.

[Code]

27 minutes ago, Supremolad said:

 

 

Spot on. But I'm not surprised to see Code posting a video hanging Darwin out to dry on that incident and insinuating he has no game intelligence. He has showed game intelligence many times. 13 assists he has this season, which is the highest.

 

Our other forwards wasted far clearer chances. And in the past few games Salah for example, has failed to do the smart thing on numerous occasions. Not that you would ever see Code posting a clip of those.

If I had found other videos from the game and the chances we blew I would have posted them all.

 

Id love it if someone could post videos or GIFs of the chances Salah missed.

[El Rojo]

3 minutes ago, Code said:

If I had found other videos from the game and the chances we blew I would have posted them all.

 

Id love it if someone could post videos or GIFs of the chances Salah missed.

Mo is utterly shocking at the moment, Code. It’s admirable that you’re staying loyal to him but he’s an absolute shadow of himself.

 

He’s surely still playing with an injury, as he just couldn’t be as bad as he is otherwise. 

[TD_LFC]

1 hour ago, Supremolad said:

13 assists he has this season, which is the highest.

 

Like with all players I think you have to look at assists more closely then goals (especially when looking at things like game intelligence rather than just a bottom line stat).

 

Tthere's been some genuinely good ones (West Ham, Everton, Sheff Utd amongst them) the ones that are down to the genius/luck of others (LASK, Brighton, Fulham) and fortuitous ones (Villa although he should have got a pen for that).

 

Not a go at him, it's the same for all players, Dani Alves claims an assist for Messi's wonder goal against Bilbao when he run it from the half way line.

[Kevin D]

8 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

 

I actually thought it was a rare good decision from him to pass the ball. He isn't a clinical finisher with his right foot so taking shot with his left would have been an even worse decision. He passed it to someone who could have played an easy cut back to someone who had an open goal.

 

Sadly, our issue is that expecting two good decisions in a row from our forwards is simply out of the question.

 

If he goes hard and low across goal, he probably scores, if the keeper makes the save it should fall for Nunez or Dom running in.

 

I don’t think it was a bad decision, but it was the wrong one for the reasons you’ve outlined. 
 

Passing to Nunez adds another unnecessary complication.

[Jairzinho]

14 minutes ago, Kevin D said:

 

If he goes hard and low across goal, he probably scores, if the keeper makes the save it should fall for Nunez or Dom running in.

 

I don’t think it was a bad decision, but it was the wrong one for the reasons you’ve outlined. 
 

Passing to Nunez adds another unnecessary complication.

 

I don't think they can be two of our front three. Unfortunately Jota's legs are made of Quavers and Gakpo hasn't got the minerals.

 

Really curious to see what Amorim or whoever does with our five forwards. I'd sign a clinical striker, sell Salah and Diaz, and play a more narrow formation.

[El Rojo]

2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

I don't think they can be two of our front three. Unfortunately Jota's legs are made of Quavers and Gakpo hasn't got the minerals.

 

Really curious to see what Amorim or whoever does with our five forwards. I'd sign a clinical striker, sell Salah and Diaz, and play a more narrow formation.

Why don’t you just get behind Klopp and stop pushing Amorim into the argument every time.

[Kevin D]

12 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

I don't think they can be two of our front three. Unfortunately Jota's legs are made of Quavers and Gakpo hasn't got the minerals.

 

Really curious to see what Amorim or whoever does with our five forwards. I'd sign a clinical striker, sell Salah and Diaz, and play a more narrow formation.

I think the new manager will look to move Diaz on and I’m sure there’ll be plenty of takers at around 60-70m. 

[Jairzinho]

10 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Why don’t you just get behind Klopp and stop pushing Amorim into the argument every time.

 

The argumentative German has made his bed and, guess what, it's bed time.

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, Kevin D said:

I think the new manager will look to move Diaz on and I’m sure there’ll be plenty of takers at around 60-70m. 

 

Yes, I think Barcelona will pay £70m for him. Him and Raphinha on either flank, both scoring a goal every four games, firing them to 3rd. 

 

Linked with PSG today, apparently. 

[3 Stacks]

2 hours ago, Supremolad said:

 

 

Spot on. But I'm not surprised to see Code posting a video hanging Darwin out to dry on that incident and insinuating he has no game intelligence. He has showed game intelligence many times. 13 assists he has this season, which is the highest.

 

Our other forwards wasted far clearer chances. And in the past few games Salah for example, has failed to do the smart thing on numerous occasions. Not that you would ever see Code posting a clip of those.

The assists Darwin get are less due to him being a playmaker or because of his intelligence, and more due to the fact he is someone who is always involved and he uses his gifts to get in good areas.

 

It's the same theory as goal scoring. One way to score goals is you don't actually have to be a good finisher, you have to be in the right areas a lot of the time. He also gets to pass to players like Salah and Jota who, unlike Darwin, their goal production at least match their xG. And Jota has surpassed it this season.

[Barrington Womble]

5 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

The assists Darwin get are less due to him being a playmaker or because of his intelligence, and more due to the fact he is someone who is always involved and he uses his gifts to get in good areas.

 

It's the same theory as goal scoring. One way to score goals is you don't actually have to be a good finisher, you have to be in the right areas a lot of the time. He also gets to pass to players like Salah and Jota who, unlike Darwin, their goal production at least match their xG. And Jota has surpassed it this season.

If the assists were as easy as just hang around and wait for Salah and Jota to score, wouldn't the whole squad have these assists? And you'd have a long wait waiting for Jota to stick it in. He might be looking great on his xG ratio, but he's looking pretty fucking shit on his get on the pitch ratio. 

 

You even say yourself there's a volume approach to our play. For every assist he has, there are probably 3 or 4 setups where we fail to finish. I dunno why our own fans are so desperate to belittle what Nunez does. His goal contributions speak for themselves and is up there with Salah, one of the best forwards we've ever had. 

[3 Stacks]

12 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

If the assists were as easy as just hang around and wait for Salah and Jota to score, wouldn't the whole squad have these assists? And you'd have a long wait waiting for Jota to stick it in. He might be looking great on his xG ratio, but he's looking pretty fucking shit on his get on the pitch ratio. 

 

You even say yourself there's a volume approach to our play. For every assist he has, there are probably 3 or 4 setups where we fail to finish. I dunno why our own fans are so desperate to belittle what Nunez does. His goal contributions speak for themselves and is up there with Salah, one of the best forwards we've ever had. 

It's not belittling. It's difficult to be as present as he is on the pitch. You need to be physically or technically dominant (in his case, it's mostly physical) and need to play with a level of agression and desire to get in the right areas. It's why we signed him. He's theoretically someone who should put up huge numbers. 

 

But the fact is, he is far less pleasant to pass to for Salah than the other way around, because Salah is actually an adequate finisher, and he isn't. And then, let's be honest, we've all watched him for two years, he's not exactly a mensa member out there. That's not who he is.

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

It's not belittling. It's difficult to be as present as he is on the pitch. You need to be physically or technically dominant (in his case, it's mostly physical) and need to play with a level of agression and desire to get in the right areas. It's why we signed him. He's theoretically someone who should put up huge numbers. 

 

But the fact is, he is far less pleasant to pass to for Salah than the other way around, because Salah is actually an adequate finisher, and he isn't. And then, let's be honest, we've all watched him for two years, he's not exactly a mensa member out there. That's not who he is.

 

Connect those two bits in bold. 

[3 Stacks]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Connect those two bits in bold. 

He's not a smart player. Do you want to be told something that isn't true because it's nicer? 

 

I think I was more than fair with describing what he does do well.

[Barrington Womble]

21 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

He's not a smart player. Do you want to be told something that isn't true because it's nicer? 

 

I think I was more than fair with describing what he does do well.

Well as long as you don't think he's a smart player, I suppose it's signed and sealed. I've been watching Liverpool at anfield for almost 50 years. I've seen some amazing footballers. His movement is as good as any of them I have seen. You don't manage that by not being a seriously smart footballer. 

[3 Stacks]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Well as long as you don't think he's a smart player, I suppose it's signed and sealed. I've been watching Liverpool at anfield for almost 50 years. I've seen some amazing footballers. His movement is as good as any of them I have seen. You don't manage that by not being a seriously smart footballer. 

If he actually had all the attributes you think he does on top of his prodigious physical abilities and the intensity with which he plays, he'd score 50 goals per season.

[Barrington Womble]

59 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

If he actually had all the attributes you think he does on top of his prodigious physical abilities and the intensity with which he plays, he'd score 50 goals per season.

 

Put your spreadsheets away, you're getting boring now..

[3 Stacks]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Put your spreadsheets away, you're getting boring now..

Ironically, Darwin is basically a spreadsheet player. As I said in his thread. Accumulating numbers as a function of the volume of chances he has but not doing much when it counts.

 

The biggest arguments on his side are statistical.

[Barrington Womble]

6 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Ironically, Darwin is basically a spreadsheet player. As I said in his thread. Accumulating numbers as a function of the volume of chances he has but not doing much when it counts.

 

The biggest arguments on his side are statistical.

 

There is no such thing as a spreadsheet player. This is not a computer game. He's a player who plays on the pitch. He scores and creates goals and does so at a level most other footballers don't. And the only people who can't see that are the people who'd decided by spreadsheet before he signed for us that he wasn't the player for us. 

 

It's like all this shit with the new manager. Nobody on here had a clue who Amorim was 3 months ago and now we have countless spreadsheet heroes telling us how the squad we have today will or won't work for him. 

[Smell The Glove]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

There is no such thing as a spreadsheet player. This is not a computer game. He's a player who plays on the pitch. He scores and creates goals and does so at a level most other footballers don't. And the only people who can't see that are the people who'd decided by spreadsheet before he signed for us that he wasn't the player for us. 

 

It's like all this shit with the new manager. Nobody on here had a clue who Amorim was 3 months ago and now we have countless spreadsheet heroes telling us how the squad we have today will or won't work for him. 

I knew little about Nunez before he arrived bar the games he played against us. I've watched him now for 2 seasons, I've been desperate for him to do well as he's a likeable character, works hard but I don't see it, I just don't think you can count on him as your no.9 in a top side over the long term.

 

He's such a strange player that even his movement, which you mentioned, is sometimes way off. His movement is brilliant at times, especially in the box but then there are so many times he doesn't anticipate and is caught on his heels. He's had 2 seasons under Klopp now and although he's improved, he hasn't moved the dial anywhere near as much as he should have done. He's still missing glaring chances, his passing is poor overall and he still looks clumsy at times.

 

He's a decent player, who can have great days but he's never going to be consistent. He's been here 2 seasons and we are still arguing over him. For a club like ours he's an impact sub but you don't pay that money for that type of player.

 

I've wanted him to do well, he's never convinced me since he's been here that he will do well and his performance in the last game broke me.

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, Smell The Glove said:

I knew little about Nunez before he arrived bar the games he played against us. I've watched him now for 2 seasons, I've been desperate for him to do well as he's a likeable character, works hard but I don't see it, I just don't think you can count on him as your no.9 in a top side over the long term.

 

He's such a strange player that even his movement, which you mentioned, is sometimes way off. His movement is brilliant at times, especially in the box but then there are so many times he doesn't anticipate and is caught on his heels. He's had 2 seasons under Klopp now and although he's improved, he hasn't moved the dial anywhere near as much as he should have done. He's still missing glaring chances, his passing is poor overall and he still looks clumsy at times.

 

He's a decent player, who can have great days but he's never going to be consistent. He's been here 2 seasons and we are still arguing over him. For a club like ours he's an impact sub but you don't pay that money for that type of player.

 

I've wanted him to do well, he's never convinced me since he's been here that he will do well and his performance in the last game broke me.

I think because of how he moves, he's actually had it more difficult because of all the change in the full back and midfield positions. There's no consistency there and really mostly just Trent who is instinctively knowing where he's going to find him. Jones holds onto the ball too long, his offsides go up when he plays with Jones it seems to me. Macca has moved around and was actually finding him better from deeper positions than he does now he's further up. If you look at arsenal, they've had rice and odergard as a pair all season, if we had some of that, I think all of our forwards would benefit from it, but I think especially Nunez. As I've said loads of times, I don't know what people are moaning about at a goal involvement around every 90 minutes. What are they expecting? What do you think he should be doing? 

 

As for players being caught on their heals. It happens to every single footballer. 

[Smell The Glove]

34 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think because of how he moves, he's actually had it more difficult because of all the change in the full back and midfield positions. There's no consistency there and really mostly just Trent who is instinctively knowing where he's going to find him. Jones holds onto the ball too long, his offsides go up when he plays with Jones it seems to me. Macca has moved around and was actually finding him better from deeper positions than he does now he's further up. If you look at arsenal, they've had rice and odergard as a pair all season, if we had some of that, I think all of our forwards would benefit from it, but I think especially Nunez. As I've said loads of times, I don't know what people are moaning about at a goal involvement around every 90 minutes. What are they expecting? What do you think he should be doing? 

 

As for players being caught on their heals. It happens to every single footballer. 

It's not a moan as such just a feeling he's not the player. Put it this way if I'm the new manager coming in and I was looking at Nunez, I would definitely be asking myself, am I going to stake my job on him.

 

I personally think you can improve on him across the board. You hate stats, I respect that but they do tell a story. His XG at the club has been terrible, he has the worst pass completion stats in the squad, in my opinion his general all round play is poor. I just think he can be greatly improved upon. I also don't think this type of player is needed if we already have Salah but that's another discussion.

 

He's helped us get where we are this season and hopefully he's the guy who helps Klopp leave with what we all want so I'm talking more for the new guy as Klopp produces attacking numbers like no other.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Smell The Glove said:

It's not a moan as such just a feeling he's not the player. Put it this way if I'm the new manager coming in and I was looking at Nunez, I would definitely be asking myself, am I going to stake my job on him.

 

I personally think you can improve on him across the board. You hate stats, I respect that but they do tell a story. His XG at the club has been terrible, he has the worst pass completion stats in the squad, in my opinion his general all round play is poor. I just think he can be greatly improved upon. I also don't think this type of player is needed if we already have Salah but that's another discussion.

 

He's helped us get where we are this season and hopefully he's the guy who helps Klopp leave with what we all want so I'm talking more for the new guy as Klopp produces attacking numbers like no other.

Fair enough. As per what I put in the last post really, I think he's contributed well and he'll benefit greatly from some stability through the middle of the park and players who can get the ball forward quickly to him - his movement relies on the players around him to know his game and the pass too often doesn't come ornis too late. I look around and don't see many who are getting a goal involvement at the rate he has. As you say, Salah is another discussion but there's every chance he won't be here next season and Diaz seems to be wanting a move. There's potentially a lot for Hughes and the new manager to deal with, without creating problems that aren't there. 

[aws]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Fair enough. As per what I put in the last post really, I think he's contributed well and he'll benefit greatly from some stability through the middle of the park and players who can get the ball forward quickly to him - his movement relies on the players around him to know his game and the pass too often doesn't come ornis too late. I look around and don't see many who are getting a goal involvement at the rate he has. As you say, Salah is another discussion but there's every chance he won't be here next season and Diaz seems to be wanting a move. There's potentially a lot for Hughes and the new manager to deal with, without creating problems that aren't there. 

If Mac had been taking  penalties this season (as he should), then there’s very little difference between  any of our attackers in terms of goals in the league and Nunez’s  assist stats are really good. He’s a long way from being our biggest problem,