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Manchester City 2 Liverpool 1 (Jan 3 2019)

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19 hours ago, Remmie said:

Totally agree with the point about playing it out from the back. It becomes so predictable and puts us on the back foot. There is a world of difference between that and playing it quickly and hitting teams on the counter attack. The tactical naivety of persisting with playing it out from the back despite it not working pissed me right off, for fucks sake acknowledge they are pressing us effectively and change it up. You could see exactly the same thing from them as well to be fair. 

We have no one to hit it long to. It's either we persist on trying to break through the pressure and potentially create a great chance (with also the risk of giving the ball away in a bad area) or we give them the ball back right away every single time. 

 

Every single top level manager in the world will take the first option unless they have a viable target man they can use. 

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1 hour ago, dave u said:

I didn't mention that because I thought it was accidental. I watched it a couple of times and didn't see anything that made me think it was deliberate.

 

What I would say is that if anyone could make it look like an accident it would be Fernandinho. But then why would he need to make anything look like an accident when he was diplomatic immunity from red cards anyway?

I'm convinced it was deliberate there was no need for him to throw his hands up the way he did, yet it was so casual and nonchalant he got away with it

He's definitely been watching that prick Ramos. It's true about the red cards he just smiles at the ref and doesn't react and he gets away with it every time.

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Good read, captures my emotions perfectly. Agree with all of it - except the suggestion that City deserved to win. As I've said elsewhere, with a tiniest smidge of luck and a half-decent (unbiased?) referee, we're 1-0 up against 10 men after half an hour.  City, for all their huffing and puffing, barely laid a hand on us until Aguero scored out of the blue. And how much did they threaten our goal between their two goals? They had several big chances towards the end when we were chasing the game - that's normal, as Juergen would say. We were arguably a bit naive after we equalised - going for the throat when our tails were up and looking for a killer blow. Maybe we should have gone a bit more Mourinho and stayed compact  - a draw would have been great for us, bad for them. Hindsight and all that. 

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2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

We have no one to hit it long to. It's either we persist on trying to break through the pressure and potentially create a great chance (with also the risk of giving the ball away in a bad area) or we give them the ball back right away every single time. 

 

Every single top level manager in the world will take the first option unless they have a viable target man they can use. 

This whole debate is weird because we’ve repeatedly hit

long balls from back to front all season. Alisson, Virgil and even Lovren have hit boss balls into the front three. So we do mix it up and we have got players to hit it long to. 

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Agree to an extent - the CBs have done when they are moving forward and - of course we have some of the most effective forwards to play those type of balls.

 

Lovren is not ever going to play one of those from deep in our right corner -- that is where we were getting strangled especially with Henderson being the angled option. No chance we can play out of the back right with those two fellas against top teams. Lump it or switch it quicker to the left

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1 hour ago, Paul said:

This whole debate is weird because we’ve repeatedly hit

long balls from back to front all season. Alisson, Virgil and even Lovren have hit boss balls into the front three. So we do mix it up and we have got players to hit it long to. 

Do you feel like we played it from the back too often? I agree we sometimes change it up, but not nearly frequently enough, especially against Man City. I feel like we should have recognised that we were struggling with it and it's not the first time. When the tactic is used 80% time it's very predictable and puts players under pressure. 

 

I do also acknowledge I've hated it from the start despite it clearly being effective at times. Was our goal even from playing it from the back, I can't remember now? I get that it forces the opposition to chase lost causes and knacker them out and that a long ball is usually still an option if in trouble. We definitely need to work on getting the balance right though. 

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4 hours ago, Paul said:

This whole debate is weird because we’ve repeatedly hit

long balls from back to front all season. Alisson, Virgil and even Lovren have hit boss balls into the front three. So we do mix it up and we have got players to hit it long to. 

We hit long diagonals to the full backs or Salah and Mane when they're on or on the counter. We don't play it long when we're getting pressed and building up from the back, though. No top team does that except Juve because they have Mandzukic and Ronaldo to aim for. 

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1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

We hit long diagonals to the full backs or Salah and Mane when they're on or on the counter. We don't play it long when we're getting pressed and building up from the back, though. No top team does that except Juve because they have Mandzukic and Ronaldo to aim for. 

United do/at least used to under Jose.

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5 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

We hit long diagonals to the full backs or Salah and Mane when they're on or on the counter. We don't play it long when we're getting pressed and building up from the back, though. No top team does that except Juve because they have Mandzukic and Ronaldo to aim for. 

I have seen both our full backs hit long balls.

 

The point was to stretch the play a bit, turn them round, add a different dimension.  It was clearly a conscious decision made by Klopp early on this season.

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9 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

We hit long diagonals to the full backs or Salah and Mane when they're on or on the counter. We don't play it long when we're getting pressed and building up from the back, though. No top team does that except Juve because they have Mandzukic and Ronaldo to aim for. 

Yes we do. I have seen balls over the top to Salah, Firmino and Mané  from Lovren and Alisson. I cannot tell you the precise matches because my memory is shit and, well, I have a life. However, we definitely do it. 

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12 hours ago, Remmie said:

Do you feel like we played it from the back too often? I agree we sometimes change it up, but not nearly frequently enough, especially against Man City. I feel like we should have recognised that we were struggling with it and it's not the first time. When the tactic is used 80% time it's very predictable and puts players under pressure. 

 

I do also acknowledge I've hated it from the start despite it clearly being effective at times. Was our goal even from playing it from the back, I can't remember now? I get that it forces the opposition to chase lost causes and knacker them out and that a long ball is usually still an option if in trouble. We definitely need to work on getting the balance right though. 

It’s used to create space at the other end by pulling teams on to us and it generally works fine. One of my least favourite things at Anfield is listening to all the moaning gets who grumble at us playing it around when there’s almost never any risk. We’ve conceded nine goals all season playing this way. 

 

Against City, I agree we were inviting trouble, but that’s because the options weren’t there further forward due to a lack of movement.    We were trying to retain possession for a bit against a side who had the ball more than us. 

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I went into this game with something of an inferiority complex; they are the best team in the world and, whilst not in top form right now, still the best.

 

I came away, despite the defeat, feeling we are as good as them. We didn't get the breaks - whereas we've had our fair share this season so far - but did enough to show we are as good as them.

 

Nothing to fear for the rest of the season; if we drew them in a Cup it would be a 50:50 game.

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16 hours ago, Frank Dacey said:

Sane's shot for the winner seemed to take a nick off Trent, which may well have taken it away from Allison. Another bit of bad luck.

I think it actually brought it in slightly rather than away from him, but given how close it was to staying out from hitting the post, I did wonder myself if that might’ve been enough for the goal to otherwise have not been scored.

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"I’ve said several times before that the ‘whole of the ball crossing the whole of the line’ is a bullshit rule. As soon as more than half of the ball has crossed the line, that should be a goal. You can’t tell me that when virtually the entire ball has crossed the line that isn’t a goal."

 

To give a bit of perspective, I just read this:

 

20.8cm of the ball’s diameter crossed the goal‑line, only 1.2cm hadn't.

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The problem I have with Lovren is defensively watching quick players absolutely blow past him like he's standing still. Joe Gomez might be the quickest player in our team, and he could fuck up defensively in terms of positioning, have a pretty quick player gain a couple yards on him and still chase them down. Lovren can have a head start on someone and still get beat for pace easily. His positioning needs to be perfect and it isn't, and it was clearly a factor in this game, positioning for the first goal and getting beat for pace easily during other City attacks. Gomez is a different level of defender, was at his best arguably putting in performances as good as VVD whom everyone is saying should be player of the year, and I think we underestimate how much he's being missed, given up until now we've had such a good time of it in the league.

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Lovren is Lovren, we all know what he is able to and not able to do, my annoyance is with TAA not making his runs up the wing like he used to do and preferring to pass it back or inside all the time, and, Mane being a bit of a lazy cunt.

Klopp had a go about his positioning and he had the balls to have a go back at Klopp.

Mane for me has not been the same Mane he used to be, he just doesnt like to run like he used to, and goes for glory badly, when better to pass to others.

Gone right off him.

Still 4 point clear is 4 points clear, so not the end of the world.

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12 hours ago, Red Hot said:

Without a freeze frame, how does a Ref or Linesman distinguish if the whole of the ball crossed the line. Virtually impossible I would of thought.

No more or less easily than determining if half the ball has crossed the line.

 

the rule is the rule, and to fall so close without a cigar is tough to swallow, but so be it.

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On 1/4/2019 at 12:32 PM, RedHeadedRed said:

What about Fernandinho slapping Robbo in the face it was deliberate and very sneaky, it was inside the first ten fifteen minutes or so and it should have been a straight red card. It wasn't mentioned at halftime or full-time at all.

I went ballistic when that happened. Dirty fucker hit Robbo from behind. In real time that looked like a red. The replays just made it more infuriating. Then that cunt went through Mane and only got a warning. No card. I completely lost my rag then. Apoplectic, I was. Not one of our lads stepped up, got in his face or even tried to get a tackle on him. Never mind Souness, Gerrard or Xabi would have let him know that if he was going to dish it out he'd have to take some too. I was surprised Milner didn't run through him. I'm still fucking livid.

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On 1/6/2019 at 2:34 AM, Paul said:

 We were trying to retain possession for a bit against a side who had the ball more than us. 

Ironically we are the only team to have more possession against them away

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