Labour Leadership Contest

[Jairzinho]

All we need to do is murder everyone over 65. 

 

Sorry, Stringers.

[Bruce Spanner]

All we need to do is murder everyone over 65. 

 

Sorry, Stringers.

 

...and the Scottish?

[Rotpeter]

Whilst true, we've had an alternative media whilst still having a hugely powerful mainstream media. 

 

Corbyn's campaign is encouraging regarding the slightly diminishing effect of said hugely powerful mainstream media, no? I don't expect a full scale revolution when they inevitably topple/kill him, but I'd expect some backlash.

 

I personally will be taking a gigantic shit on Ben Bradshaw's door step when it happens.

The problem with the alternative media is not that the mainstream media is still powerful it's that it has been subverted by the same interests as control the mainstream.

 

I don't think the mainstream media's ability to maintain the status-quo has changed one bit. Some extra people are aware the Guardian is a shill. But that's been obvious to anyone who cares to think about it for decades (and they haven't).

 

The dialog is what's important, give me people talking to each other in pubs anyday, that's where minds are made up. Tackling mainstream media is way beyond the horizon at this point.

[Section_31]

You're right about the older generation being more right wing, ironic really as they're the ones who benefitted most from a left wing government, gold plated pensions, affordable housing, jobs for life, false hips and hearing aids, and kids who didn't have polio. What cunts. 

[lifetime fan]

You're right about the older generation being more right wing, ironic really as they're the ones who benefitted most from a left wing government, gold plated pensions, affordable housing, jobs for life, false hips and hearing aids, and kids who didn't have polio. What cunts.

Can be summed up perfectly by the Jim Davidson cunt approach.

 

'I used to vote labour as I was poor, I've got a few quid now so fuck off am I voting labour'.

[Section_31]

Can be summed up perfectly by the Jim Davidson cunt approach.

 

'I used to vote labour as I was poor, I've got a few quid now so fuck off am I voting labour'.

 

Ha!

 

The thing is though, and this is what genuinely baffles me, that Conservative party is gone. It doesn't exist anymore. It's not the party of the establishment, or the police, or the military, it's the party of the oligarch, the media baron and the corporation. 

 

Even if I was minted, absolutely minted, the cuts in tax they may throw my way are going to be hugely outweighed by the problems created by the cuts they make to the society around me, whether it's my need for emergency care (even BUPA doesn't have ambulences), or the fact increasingly desperate people are going to turn to crime and try and clim over my wall, it's hugely shortshighted. 

 

We have seen, and will see, social destruction on an unprecidented scale in this country and the USA because of this. 

[Jairzinho]

The problem with the alternative media is not that the mainstream media is still powerful it's that it has been subverted by the same interests as control the mainstream.

 

I don't think the mainstream media's ability to maintain the status-quo has changed one bit. Some extra people are aware the Guardian is a shill. But that's been obvious to anyone who cares to think about it for decades (and they haven't).

 

The dialog is what's important, give me people talking to each other in pubs anyday, that's where minds are made up. Tackling mainstream media is way beyond the horizon at this point.

 

I think you're underplaying this a bit.

 

Same goes for the BBC.

 

Bits of the establishment presented as being on the left being shown up for the frauds they are is significant. The conversation has changed, and the establishment is visibly panicking. I'm not suggesting for a moment that it's about to come crumbling down, I'm just slightly less pessimistic than you are.

 

How many people were aware of medialens, open democracy, etc Five years ago? One year ago?  Have you seen no change in pub conversations? The BBC paedo scandal, the phone hacking at the NOTW, people of all shapes and sizes are becoming more distrusting of the establishment.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Labour want's to attract new voters, other party's voters in order to gain power, Labour refuses people a vote in their own election because they previously voted for other party's. We don't want you because your past doesn't represent Labour values, general election time, we want you and will drop all our values in a heartbeat to do so. It seems it's the Blairites whose values no longer represent Labours and the media showing its real agenda has never seemed so clear... Fleece the fucking people and don't rock the gravy train.

[moof]

...and the Scottish?

There aren't any Scottish over the age of 65 they've all overdosed on deep fried heroin

[Rotpeter]

I think you're underplaying this a bit.

 

Same goes for the BBC.

 

Bits of the establishment presented as being on the left being shown up for the frauds they are is significant. The conversation has changed, and the establishment is visibly panicking. I'm not suggesting for a moment that it's about to come crumbling down, I'm just slightly less pessimistic than you are.

 

How many people were aware of medialens, open democracy, etc Five years ago? One year ago?  Have you seen no change in pub conversations? The BBC paedo scandal, the phone hacking at the NOTW, people of all shapes and sizes are becoming more distrusting of the establishment.

Maybe you're right, or maybe you just really, really want to believe the mask slipping will lead to a material change. I don't, I believe the mask will just be swapped out for a new one. Unless someone has a specific actionable plan for moving people from awareness and aspiration to action, we will revert to type.

 

What I hope for is caught up in a mood of pluralism someone or something emerges. And this fertile circumstance isn't allowed to go fallow. People want change, but no-one is telling them what they need to do.

[Jairzinho]

I think awareness is a decent start. That's all.

[Strontium]

There is, an estimated, $214T in the world, roughly 30m for every citizen of the planet

 

$214tn divided between 7 billion people is $30,000, not $30 million.

 

Kind of makes a big difference to your point.

[xerxes]

You're right about the older generation being more right wing

Is that true?

 

Trades Union membership is predominantly older, Corbyn is no spring chicken, the Tory cuts heavily affect the elderly, as they rely more on public services.

 

I think that the media make the mistake of bolting on Right and Left wing labels with a 70's mindset, we have moved on, and Corbyn has captured that sense.

[Rotpeter]

I think awareness is a decent start. That's all.

Well we're in a better place than yesterday. Just need to work out how to keep the momentum.

[Anubis]

I think you're underplaying this a bit.

 

Same goes for the BBC.

 

Bits of the establishment presented as being on the left being shown up for the frauds they are is significant. The conversation has changed, and the establishment is visibly panicking. I'm not suggesting for a moment that it's about to come crumbling down, I'm just slightly less pessimistic than you are.

 

How many people were aware of medialens, open democracy, etc Five years ago? One year ago?  Have you seen no change in pub conversations? The BBC paedo scandal, the phone hacking at the NOTW, people of all shapes and sizes are becoming more distrusting of the establishment.

 

Someone on the Guardian comments page made the point that the career MPs on both sides of the house, and most of the political commentators in the media, all come from a similar educational background.  And for the last 20 years or so they've all enjoyed a cosy little Westminster bubble where they can be against each other but share a Russian oligarch's yacht during the summer, as Mandelson and Osbourne did, or being invited to Uncle Rupe's summer champagne garden party.

 

Now you've got Corbyn at the head of an army of people, seeking to put a pin in that bubble, and, good god, proposing to fund people from poorer backgrounds to bring them into Westminster. No wonder they are shrieking like harpies.

[Bruce Spanner]

$214tn divided between 7 billion people is $30,000, not $30 million.

 

Kind of makes a big difference to your point.

If you use the antiquated British billion x billion formula maybe, but to use the internationally recognised US thousand million then, er, point stands.

[Strontium]

If you use the antiquated British billion x billion formula maybe, but to use the internationally recognised US thousand million then, er, point stands.

 

I'm using the international standard that everyone uses these days.

 

$214 trillion is $214,000,000,000,000 which apparently represents the sum total of all wealth on the planet.

 

There are 7,000,000,000 people on the planet.

 

One figure divided by the other is a shade over $30,000.

 

Incidentally, I don't know how you're doing, but I can tell you I am beating the average so far...

[Anny Road]

I'm using the international standard that everyone uses these days.

 

$214 trillion is $214,000,000,000,000 which apparently represents the sum total of all wealth on the planet.

 

There are 7,000,000,000 people on the planet.

 

One figure divided by the other is a shade over $30,000.

 

Incidentally, I don't know how you're doing, but I can tell you I am beating the average so far...

Take the debt off that see how you are then.

[Jairzinho]

What are we the 5th richest nation in the world?

 

What percentage of our country is "beating" that average?

[Bruce Spanner]

I'm using the international standard that everyone uses these days.

 

$214 trillion is $214,000,000,000,000 which apparently represents the sum total of all wealth on the planet.

 

There are 7,000,000,000 people on the planet.

 

One figure divided by the other is a shade over $30,000.

 

Incidentally, I don't know how you're doing, but I can tell you I am beating the average so far...

Apologies, I had a hangover earlier and employed the economist who advised Clegg on student loans.

 

Mea culpa.

 

I'm doing alright btw, but I'd gladly have more tax taken from my pay packet to help those less well off, you?

[xerxes]

Someone on the Guardian comments page made the point that the career MPs on both sides of the house, and most of the political commentators in the media, all come from a similar educational background.  And for the last 20 years or so they've all enjoyed a cosy little Westminster bubble where they can be against each other but share a Russian oligarch's yacht during the summer, as Mandelson and Osbourne did, or being invited to Uncle Rupe's summer champagne garden party.

 

Now you've got Corbyn at the head of an army of people, seeking to put a pin in that bubble, and, good god, proposing to fund people from poorer backgrounds to bring them into Westminster. No wonder they are shrieking like harpies.

Exactly.

 

Osborne and Ed being family holidaying friends sums it all up for me.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Fuck all on TV tonight think i'll watch a very British coup on 4oD seeing how i've never seen it

[Hooch]

It will be on BT Sport and narrated by Michael Owen. 

 

'Petrol bombs...just falling there, really good.'

Can't believe this hasn't been repped yet.

Outstanding.

[Hades]

If you keep people in fear, you cannot have empathy. Debt is the biggest generator of fear in modern society. Unless we somehow eradicate debt, policies will never be framed in terms of compassion, but in terms of economic growth. I wonder what a debt free society would look like. Anyone know of utopian sci-fi that explores this?

[Rotpeter]

If you keep people in fear, you cannot have empathy. Debt is the biggest generator of fear in modern society. Unless we somehow eradicate debt, policies will never be framed in terms of compassion, but in terms of economic growth. I wonder what a debt free society would look like. Anyone know of utopian sci-fi that explores this?

Unsustainable debt is the biggest fear generator (fueled by the "buy the biggest house", "the fanciest car" mindset). Plenty of people love the ability to do things with other people's money.