Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Brexit will reduce red tape.  
 

 

Insert Partridge shrug here.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

Ok. Genuine question, with the current world wide situation of fuel hikes etc do you believe inflation would not have risen if we had not left the EU?

OK I'll answer for you, inflation is pretty much world wide, check out the inflation rate in Germany, Italy, USA.. 

 

I'm struggling to see your point. 

[Bjornebye]

Brexit was/is a cunts trick. 

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Brexit was/is a cunts trick. 

The EU was/is a cunts trick.

 

Edit; unless you're into the cheap labour/exploitation game of course,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/28/revealed-exploitation-of-meat-plant-workers-rife-across-uk-and-europe

[skend04]

Inflation 5.4%

 

Everything up in price. Everything Gnash's fellow Brexiteers said would be much cheaper. I think they were all talking shit. 

[Gnasher]

On the subject of inflation, is Germany still in the EU?

 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-inflation-hits-29-year-high-of-52/a-59968291

 

Wait till you see the way Americas inflation rate is going, bloody brexit.

 

No one told me Spain had left the EU, what other reason could their be for Spains highest inflation rate in 30 years? Bloody brexit.

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/30/spains-annual-inflation-jumps-to-6point7percent-at-end-of-2021.html

 

 

Oh fuck, inflation rising throughout Europe, must be brexit,

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/07/business/european-union-eurozone-inflation.html

[AngryOfTuebrook]

22 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Open goal for the Labour Party to prove the hypocrisy of the flag shaggers. 

Is it, though? The risk is that they will simultaneously come across as anti-immigration (thereby pissing off the Left) and anti-Brexit (thereby pissing off the Right).

[Gnasher]

More bloody brexit,

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/10/us-inflation-rate-rise-2021-highest-increase-since-1982

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

The EU was/is a cunts trick.

 

Edit; unless you're into the cheap labour/exploitation game of course,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/28/revealed-exploitation-of-meat-plant-workers-rife-across-uk-and-europe

That's not an EU issue: it's a global Capitalism issue.

[Gnasher]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Is it, though? The risk is that they will simultaneously come across as anti-immigration (thereby pissing off the Left) and anti-Brexit (thereby pissing off the Right).

 

A. It's not anti immigration its anti cheap/exploitative labour.

 

B; Labour shouldn't worry about the right it should worry about the people it was set up to represent.

[Gnasher]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's not an EU issue: it's a global Capitalism issue.

You think the EU is not a part of global capitalism? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You think the EU is not a part of global capitalism? 

I know that it's not the be all and end all of global Capitalism. I know that the UK leaving the EU solved absolutely none of the problems of global Capitalism; in fact, it made them worse (at least as far as the UK is concerned).

[Gnasher]

31 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I know that it's not the be all and end all of global Capitalism. I know that the UK leaving the EU solved absolutely none of the problems of global Capitalism; in fact, it made them worse (at least as far as the UK is concerned).

 

The issues raised in that article are all happening within the EU and a lot were flamed by the EU expansion into eastern europe and the cheap labour that followed. It was an EU project. 

 

Still at least your defence of absolving the EU of responsibility and shifting the blame onto global capitalism is not quite as ludicrous as those who believe the problem rests with poor consumers who can only afford the less expensive cuts of meat to feed their family.

 

The EU is a cheap labour market and the results are in that article. 

[M_B]

15 hours ago, Gnasher said:

OK I'll answer for you, inflation is pretty much world wide, check out the inflation rate in Germany, Italy, USA.. 

 

I'm struggling to see your point. 

The problem with the Brexit argument is that many people are stuck in black and white thinking. Much like the vaccination debate. The truth is there are fair arguments on both sides.

 

Taking inflation as an example. The world is largely experiencing rising inflation, so you are correct to point that out. And, as you yourself have pointed out on many occassions, Brexit has increased wages - costs which will inevitably be passed on to the consumer because that's how market forces work.

 

So there is truth in both sides of the argument - the world is experiencing higher inflationary pressures and Brexit is contributing (by your own admission) to those pressures. It is not true to say Brexit has no effect on inflation, nor is it true to say Britain's inflationary pressures are 100% down to Brexit.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

40 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

The issues raised in that article are all happening within the EU and a lot were flamed by the EU expansion into eastern europe and the cheap labour that followed. It was an EU project. 

 

Still at least your defence of absolving the EU of responsibility and shifting the blame onto global capitalism is not quite as ludicrous as those who believe the problem rests with poor consumers who can only afford the less expensive cuts of meat to feed their family.

 

The EU is a cheap labour market and the results are in that article. 

I didn't absolve the EU of blame, any more than I absolved the UK or anywhere else of blame: I just pointed out that the problem highlighted in that article is the exploitation of migrant labour. As the article makes clear, it's a global problem. It's misleading, at best, to try to frame it as an EU problem.

 

Now that the UK has left the EU, those underpaid & overworked East Europeans in places like veg farms and sandwich factories will not be replaced by well-paid, well-respected British workers. That's not what Capitalism does. They will be replaced by people from poorer countries who will work for even less and will be even more exploitable, because they won't have the rights that come with citizenship. As a senior Tory secretly admitted in one of their WhatsApp groups, that's the whole point of Brexit.

[No2]

38 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

The issues raised in that article are all happening within the EU and a lot were flamed by the EU expansion into eastern europe and the cheap labour that followed. It was an EU project. 

 

Still at least your defence of absolving the EU of responsibility and shifting the blame onto global capitalism is not quite as ludicrous as those who believe the problem rests with poor consumers who can only afford the less expensive cuts of meat to feed their family.

 

The EU is a cheap labour market and the results are in that article. 

Gnasher when the west got the access to the labour the benefits flowed the other way too. Poland and Estonia requested to join the EU, they weren't asked. The decision looks a good one to me. Both joined in 2004.

 

Poland

GDP £130BN 2003

GDP £305BN 2014

GDP £590BN 2021

 

Estonia

GDP $9BN 2003

GDP $26BN 2014

GDP $36BN 2021

 

 

[Gnasher]

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I didn't absolve the EU of blame, any more than I absolved the UK or anywhere else of blame: I just pointed out that the problem highlighted in that article is the exploitation of migrant labour. As the article makes clear, it's a global problem. It's misleading, at best, to try to frame it as an EU problem.

 

Now that the UK has left the EU, those underpaid & overworked East Europeans in places like veg farms and sandwich factories will not be replaced by well-paid, well-respected British workers.

 

A lot of workers in mainly low paid occupations such as haulage/hospitality/agriculture have seen wages rise after Brexit though, that's a fact, look at the ONS so your argument is ludicrous.

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

That's not what Capitalism does. They will be replaced by people from poorer countries who will work for even less and will be even more exploitable, because they won't have the rights that come with citizenship. As a senior Tory secretly admitted in one of their WhatsApp groups, that's the whole point of Brexit.

 

You understand that some people's reason for Brexit differs from others? ie do you think Foot wanted out of Europe for the reason you've given above.

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, No2 said:

Gnasher when the west got the access to the labour the benefits flowed the other way too. Poland and Estonia requested to join the EU, they weren't asked. The decision looks a good one to me. Both joined in 2004.

 

Poland

GDP £130BN 2003

GDP £305BN 2014

GDP £590BN 2021

 

Estonia

GDP $9BN 2003

GDP $26BN 2014

GDP $36BN 2021

 

 

No disrespect to Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary etc but I don't give a fuck about their economy, I'm more concerned with someone living on a sink estate in Britain and working for washers.

[No2]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

No disrespect to Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary etc but I don't give a fuck about their economy, I'm more concerned with someone living on a sink estate in Britain and working for washers.

That's bollox, the very premise of your argument for 5 years is that the wealthy EU countries have used cheap labour for their benefit. You have whined about it and pretended to give a shit. I have just showed you that the relationship was a 2 way street.  Workers from those countries went from getting paid pittance at home to getting pittance in western countries but that pittance was still a fortune compared to the rates at home. In 20 years they have built economies that mean they can return home and raise a family and keep the kids working in their own country. Kind of what happened for Ireland in the first 20 years of their EU membership. 

[Gnasher]

12 minutes ago, No2 said:

That's bollox, the very premise of your argument for 5 years is that the wealthy EU countries have used cheap labour for their benefit. You have whined about it and pretended to give a shit. I have just showed you that the relationship was a 2 way street.  Workers from those countries went from getting paid pittance at home to getting pittance in western countries but that pittance was still a fortune compared to the rates at home. In 20 years they have built economies that mean they can return home and raise a family and keep the kids working in their own country. Kind of what happened for Ireland in the first 20 years of their EU membership. 

 

I don't disagree with a lot of that, it is indeed a two way street, we chuck these countries our money they provide us plentiful cheap labour. Not sure what your argument is tbh.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/28/revealed-exploitation-of-meat-plant-workers-rife-across-uk-and-europe

[AngryOfTuebrook]

 

[Bjornebye]

https://www.cityam.com/one-in-three-uk-business-owners-fear-their-company-wont-exist-anymore-in-a-year-as-brexit-onslaught-intensifies/

 

Nearly one in three fear their company will close before the end of this year, primarily as the long-term effects of Brexit start to bite, according to alarming data shared with City A.M. this morning.

A slightly bigger number, 37 per cent, don’t think their business will survive until the end of 2027, as more than half (54 per cent) of UK business owners indicated they found 2021 to be a more challenging year for their business than 2020.

 

Brexit was and continues to be a real obstacle, the entrepreneurs said, with 73 per cent of those taking part in a countrywide-survey by One World Express saying their business has seen zero benefit from the UK’s departure from the EU.

 

A quarter of UK businesses were significantly impacted by Brexit last year and one in three of respondents said their company experienced difficulties when attempting to secure working visas for EU based employees in 2021, while 43 per cent faced supply chain disruption.

Import and export drop

As the overwhelming majority (73 per cent) of business leaders said their organisation has seen no benefits from Brexit, a quarter made a conscious decision to move away from importing or exporting to or from the EU in 2021.

 

Moreover, the data showed that half of business leaders consider the potential emergence of new Covid variants to be the greatest threat to their businesses in 2022.

“Brexit was always going to present challenges to UK businesses, but these have been compounded by the pandemic,” explained Atul Bhakta, CEO of One World Express, this morning.

 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

 

What's your point? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

 

What's your point? 

That Tory Brexiteers are lying cunts and the "successes" of Brexit don't exist.

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

That David Davies is a lying, arrogant, narcissistic, horrible cunt. Why do so many tory mp's feel the need to misrepresent and play the victim when faced with genuine questions, corrected on their bullshit or given reality checks? 

 

MONMOUTH MP David Davies has sparked controversy after criticising a Labour activist on Twitter for the way she addressed him.

 

Mr Davies tweeted a screenshot of a question from Catrin Maby regarding the recent vote to disagree with a House of Lords amendment to the environment bill that would prevent water companies from dumping sewage in rivers.

 

Ms Maby said on Twitter: "So @DavidTCDavies, you voted yesterday to allow water companies to continue dumping RAW SEWAGE in our rivers.

"But you told Monmouth THIS was what was killing the Wye and the Usk, and not the effect of intensive farming or poultry units near water courses."

 

In the same tweet he said activists like Ms Maby are "more interested in spreading hatred on twitter than looking at the arguments" and she should be ashamed of herself.

 

Mr Davies  also tweeted separately with a screenshot of Ms Maby's statement.

He said: "In a week when we should be thinking about the language we use online & the effect it has does the ⁦@UKLabour condone this kind of language from its activists?"

 

This got the most attention online, with many not understanding exactly what Mr Davies was objecting to.

 

Twitter user Bryony Davis said "What is it about the language that you are objecting to?

"It is perfectly polite, accurate and factual.

"Maybe that's the problem???"

 

Another user, Gerry Davis, said: "She hasn't used abusive language.

"She has challenged you on your vote and you have explained the issue.