Liverpool V Fulham 1/5/12

[John McClane]

Far too many negatives for a team a few days away from a cup final. Have I not read before that KK only tells the players his team a few hours before kick off?

I imagine not only is the team is selected, the shopping list should be done for the summer and dealt with quickly and certain players should be told to get their agents to make other clubs aware of availability.

I fear if we do not bring the FA Cup home then FSG will move KK on, whether it be upstairs or altogether. This aint a silly reaction after a loss but the league table looks bad now, it make look even worse in 2 weeks.

[The Acolyte]

 

A picture paints a thousand words

 

Anybody with eyes can see Reina has reached the end of his tether with this lot. Don't know about you but I see a few similarities between Reina's slump in form and that of Torres when he was here. Both losing their way amongst club chaos, I just hope he doesn't take the Torres route out of the club.

[Il Fenomeno]

Anybody with eyes can see Reina has reached the end of his tether with this lot. Don't know about you but I see a few similarities between Reina's slump in form and that of Torres when he was here. Both losing their way amongst club chaos, I just hope he doesn't take the Torres route out of the club.

 

Interesting theory. I believe we need to make a statement of intent in the summer and sign a high profile player to appease the likes of Suarez and Reina. Signing a massive high profile player like Cavani would really make the players think twice about leaving.

 

Reina probably had his doubts in January when we knew we had a striker and goalscoring problem yet we just sat there twiddling our thumbs while Newcastle went out and bought Cisse and Everton bought Jelavic. He was probably thinking we've changed the whole management of the club yet we are still as incompetent as ever.

[piscinin]

Interesting theory. I believe we need to make a statement of intent in the summer and sign a high profile player to appease the likes of Suarez and Reina. Signing a massive high profile player like Cavani would really make the players think twice about leaving.

 

Reina probably had his doubts in January when we knew we had a striker and goalscoring problem yet we just sat there twiddling our thumbs while Newcastle went out and bought Cisse and Everton bought Jelavic. He was probably thinking we've changed the whole management of the club yet we are still as incompetent as ever.

 

And John Achtenberg is still my coach even though I pass Xavi Valero every day when walking my dogs.

[JBarnes]

If we get Cavani or anyone of that ilk this summer I'll be gobsmacked.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Far too many negatives for a team a few days away from a cup final. Have I not read before that KK only tells the players his team a few hours before kick off?

I imagine not only is the team is selected, the shopping list should be done for the summer and dealt with quickly and certain players should be told to get their agents to make other clubs aware of availability.

I fear if we do not bring the FA Cup home then FSG will move KK on, whether it be upstairs or altogether. This aint a silly reaction after a loss but the league table looks bad now, it make look even worse in 2 weeks.

 

If that's the case - that Kenny will be moved on if we don't win our next match against Chelsea - then it's already too late. He's either the right man to do the job for years to come, or he isn't.

[xerxes]

People do understand this game meant fuck all and that it makes fuck all difference if we finishes 7th or 12th, or dont they?

 

The difference is around £4m in prize money- more than twice what you get for winning the FA Cup.

 

On the one hand you are right, the game was irrelevant, we have a Cup Final to play and win.

 

If we don't beat Chelsea , this season we will have emulated Alex McLeish and Birmingham City with our league cup win.

 

On the other, the fact that we will finish out of the qualifying places for the EL by league place for the second year running is a huge embarrassment and humilation.

 

Once, as fans and a club, we demanded a title tilt, then that slipped to CL qualification, then EL qualification, now we are reduced to qualification via the domestic cups.

 

Success, and winning, is not something you turn on and off. It's a habit, and an attitude.

 

Fulham are not very good. They are shite away from home. I don't buy this "concentating on the Cup theory". Non-qualification for Euripe was supposed to eman that we were going to concentrate on the league - when in fact we have gone backwards.

 

Kenny has a huge task on his hands, much of which is of his own making.

Edited May 1, 2012 by xerxes

[Dan Vito Corleone]

Embarrassing. There's no excuse for that absolute filth that was served tonight. I am absolutely sick to death of watching us. The cup final feels like a fucking chore.

[Newport]

The question I keep asking myself is how the fuck we ended up like this. We came out of the previous ownership and everything looked positive towards the end of last season. We had a lot to spend on improving the squad and all we got was the worst season in the league since fuck knows.

 

I hate to admit this but those who doubted Kenny when he was appointed has not been proved wrong. Far from it. He's not all bad as the cup success has proven, but the transfer business has ruined a lot for us and whoever responsible for it must pay for it. It's kind of like those people who win big on the lottery and then go out and spend it all on shit within a short space of time and ends up worse off than they were before. We're not there yet, but something has to be done to stop it.

[Code]

Non-qualification for Euripe was supposed to eman that we were going to concentrate on the league - when in fact we have gone backwards.

 

 

Said who?

 

The wiser ones among us probably argued not being in Europe actually could be a problem for our league campaign.

[G Richards]

I think Kenny is on thin ice, but I also believe he will have a chance to rectify mistakes and keep going next season. If we get a new manager that will be three in three years, and what if he doesn't get off to a flier? Will it be four in four? Where does the madness stop?

 

I believe right course of action is to back Kenny again in the summer and go again next season. He knows what is wrong in the team and I think he will address it. A proper goal scorer and a proper top class wide man and things start to look so much better. Lucas back in the side will help enormously too.

 

Still, if FSG make a change in the summer I couldn't really blame them, but I hope we back Kenny for longer.

[xerxes]

Said who?

 

The wiser ones among us probably argued not being in Europe actually could be a problem for our league campaign.

 

Check the historic threads, Code.

 

I agree,and agreed with you, non-qualification offfered no benefit other than a ratcheting down of expectations.

 

I see no evidence that our league form will miraculously improve at the start of next season without significant transfer activity.

 

It is now all about the Cup, and a historic double.

[gkmacca]

Anybody with eyes can see Reina has reached the end of his tether with this lot. Don't know about you but I see a few similarities between Reina's slump in form and that of Torres when he was here. Both losing their way amongst club chaos, I just hope he doesn't take the Torres route out of the club.

 

His recent comments have been so far the opposite that he's been ridiculed on forums for seeming so upbeat.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Said who?

 

The wiser ones among us probably argued not being in Europe actually could be a problem for our league campaign.

 

Such as you? :lol: You're probably the reason the term "delusions of grandeur" exists.

[Code]

Check the historic threads, Code.

 

I agree,and agreed with you, non-qualification offfered no benefit other than a ratcheting down of expectations.

 

I see no evidence that our league form will miraculously improve at the start of next season without significant transfer activity.

 

It is now all about the Cup, and a historic double.

 

Our league campaign probably ended with that Arsenal loss and I have no problem with us concentrating on the cups.

 

I agree with you on signings though, we need at least three new signings, a striker with pace and the ability to score goals, a winger with pace and the ability to score goals and a CM with the ability to score goals.

 

There are not enough goals in our team and it was pointed out early on this season, the squads average simply does not add up to a title chase.

 

We have the possibility to correct that in the summer though and I'm still optimistic we will manage to do that.

[Redshadow]

Hmm, Not for the first time Xerxes? I happen to disagree with many of your observations - None more so than the frankly silly statement re' Kenny that "much of which is of his own making."? Complete reactionary misreading of things if you ask me & Not for the First time no? Fact is Kenny is dealing mostly with the guts of the club & the First team itself going from quality enough to supply more than Half the two teams in the last World Cup Final? To barely good enough to win one League Game in Four at Home never mind 2 or 3 in a row in the space of what? 2 seasons flat? In attempting to Reverse that thus far? The bulk of the transfers Kenny has made since his return? Were mostly with the odd exception of the likes of Coates, Bellamy & Suarez were (though very different in price tag relating the mess Man City have made of the market of late with 'market' prices massively inflated OTT) still nonetheless similar to many of Rafa's first tranfers in the likes of Luis Garcia, Josemi, Momo Sissoko, Morientes & Pellegrino; In short? Kenny brought in 'bodies' to fill out the squad which was basically dying on it's feet in terms of numbers before the season began as IIRR? We sold or shipped out something like 4 players for every 1 (and most of them not very good) that we brought in at the backend of the regime of the twin vampires.

 

Anyway you look at that & think That sort of damage & drop in quality can be addressed in One short Full season? Don't make me f*cking laugh. The squad still needs a massive overhaul to even return the First 11 to something like the strength Rafa' had it at in 08/09 & even that took him Four seasons to reach & that's without mentioning the small matters of our squad strength which has been woeful for decades now & finding the right mental mental attitude in so-called 'small' league games which has been completely non-existent from our club (never mind our first team) since around 1991. In short? The required changes? Have barely even begun but Kenny's the man to make them - Who else living has won the league with This club? Answer me that? And I'll name you who else could take the job - The fact there is no answer? Shows as I said that there is no-one else who could do it right now - Certainly not & deliver the chance of 2 trophies which is something on the order of what Rafa' did in his first season & shows Kenny's quality as a manager if nothing else.

 

As to me? I suggest for once that alien & undesirable though the concept might seem to you? That both you & certain others who apparently know nothing of the concept? Try & learn the value of patience - Sometihng tells me we're going to need it for a while yet because as I said before? The serious work done repairing the damage the previous shambles did to us? Has barely yet begun. Man City came from nearly being relegated back in 08/09 to where they are today & it took them nearly 3 full seasons - I suspect without their economic advantages? What We now need to do to compete effectively will take at least 4 if not more seasons; So - much as the reactionary idiots & the "success now!!/short sighted brigade" prats without a Clue might think (who are prob' the same d*ckheads who booed that night we went top?) & much as they might hate it? There's nothing we can do right now except remain patient & get behind the manager & those who I did refer to as the "short-sighted brigade" who with their short sighted, pathetic, ridiculous & diabolically bad views of the sort that Led to this mess by helping remove Rafa'? Are better off F*cking off & never coming back as the one thing they are Not with pathetic little so-called attitudes like That? Is Liverpool fans - I mean with friends like that? Who needs enemies? IMO We're better off without them & their pathetic so-called views as .............

Edited May 2, 2012 by Redshadow

[ngogswilly]

I think Kenny is on thin ice, but I also believe he will have a chance to rectify mistakes and keep going next season. If we get a new manager that will be three in three years, and what if he doesn't get off to a flier? Will it be four in four? Where does the madness stop?

 

I believe right course of action is to back Kenny again in the summer and go again next season. He knows what is wrong in the team and I think he will address it. A proper goal scorer and a proper top class wide man and things start to look so much better. Lucas back in the side will help enormously too.

 

Still, if FSG make a change in the summer I couldn't really blame them, but I hope we back Kenny for longer.

 

Thats basically where I'm at. But things have to improve.

 

We can't keep talking about long term over and over again to excuse the obvious problems in the here and now. And we can't keep moving goalposts. Downing, Henderson, Carroll, Adam, none of them can be excused next year if they don't show real tangible improvement.

 

Yes, plan for the long term and acknowledge that not everything is going to click over night. But at least attempt to fix the problems in the here and now.

 

If you don't deal with problems when you have them, all the long term planning and hard work in the world won't mean diddly fucking squat. We need to see improvements.

[Redshadow]

Hmm, Not for the first time Xerxes? I happen to disagree with a couple of your observations - None more so than the frankly silly statement re' Kenny that "much of which is of his own making."? Complete reactionary misreading of things if you ask me & Not for the First time no? Fact is Kenny is dealing mostly with the guts of the club & the First team itself going from quality enough to supply more than Half the two teams in the last World Cup Final? To barely good enough to win one League Game in Four at Home never mind 2 or 3 in a row in the space of what? 2 seasons flat? In attempting to Reverse that thus far? The bulk of the transfers Kenny has made since his return? Were mostly with the odd exception of the likes of Coates, Bellamy & Suarez were (though very different in price tag relating the mess Man City have made of the market of late with 'market' prices massively inflated OTT) still nonetheless similar to many of Rafa's first tranfers in the likes of Luis Garcia, Josemi, Momo Sissoko, Morientes & Pellegrino; In short? Kenny brought in 'bodies' to fill out the squad which was basically dying on it's feet in terms of numbers before the season began as IIRR? We sold or shipped out something like 4 players for every 1 (and most of them not very good) that we brought in at the backend of the regime of the twin vampires.

 

Anyway you look at that & think That sort of damage & drop in quality can be addressed in One short Full season? Don't make me f*cking laugh. The squad still needs a massive overhaul to even return the First 11 to something like the strength Rafa' had it at in 08/09 & even that took him Four seasons to reach & that's without mentioning the small matters of our squad strength which has been woeful for decades now & finding the right mental mental attitude in so-called 'small' league games which has been completely non-existent from our club (never mind our first team) since around 1991. In short? The required changes? Have barely even begun but Kenny's the man to make them - Who else living has won the league with This club? Answer me that? And I'll name you who else could take the job - The fact there is no answer? Shows as I said that there is no-one else who could do it right now - Certainly not & deliver the chance of 2 trophies which is something on the order of what Rafa' did in his first season & shows Kenny's quality as a manager if nothing else.

 

As to me? I suggest for once that alien & undesirable though the concept might seem to you? That both you & certain others who apparently know nothing of the concept? Try & learn the value of patience - Something tells me we're going to need it for a while yet because as I said before? The serious work done repairing the damage the previous shambles did to us? Has barely yet begun. Man City came from nearly being relegated back in 08/09 to where they are today & it took them nearly 3 full seasons - I suspect without their economic advantages? What We now need to do to compete effectively will take at least 4 if not more seasons; So - much as the reactionary idiots & the "success now!!/short sighted brigade" prats without a Clue might think (who are prob' the same d*ckheads who booed that night we went top?) & much as they might hate it? There's nothing we can do right now except remain patient & get behind the manager & those who I did refer to as the "short-sighted brigade" who with their short sighted, pathetic, ridiculous & diabolically bad views of the sort that Led to this mess by helping remove Rafa'? Are better off F*cking off & never coming back as the one thing they are Not with pathetic little so-called attitudes like That? Is Liverpool fans - I mean with friends like that? Who needs enemies? IMO We're better off without them & their pathetic so-called views as .............

 

There - Redone minus spelling errors; And just to say Xerxes? While I'll agree with you that Kenny has a huge task? Most of it is anything but of his making - That mess he's dealing with? Has been at least 5 if not more years in the making & he's only been here not half of that - Certainly in a position to do anything about it anyway - Think he needs rather more time as yet. Since while turning the oil tanker around is One thing? - Steering it in the correct direction at the fastest speed possible? Is Quite another & right now? We're seeing the difference & will for a good while yet...............

 

NB Ngog's? Whilst I agree with you? I suspect either financial restrictions or control from above were used or exerted rather more pressure than will Ever be talked about in public this January regarding improving our obvious deficiencies that said if what I suspect is True? It certainly makes the Clubs ownership look rather the idiots to say the least. We had Enough 'dead' transfer windows under the previous tossers - We simply cannot afford a repeat anytime soon.........

[Dan]

I've had to put you on ignore.You have taken my ignore virginity with a brutal bold rape.

[ngogswilly]

 

NB Ngog's? Whilst I agree with you? I suspect either financial restrictions or control from above were used or exerted rather more pressure than will Ever be talked about in public this January regarding improving our obvious deficiencies that said if what I suspect is True? It certainly makes the Clubs ownership look rather the idiots to say the least. We had Enough 'dead' transfer windows under the previous tossers - We simply cannot afford a repeat anytime soon.........

 

Well thats it, we can't afford any more mistakes in the transfer market. Thats crucial.

But its still only part of the puzzle, the players who have underperformed this year who will most likely still be here next year simply have to improve.

But we all know that.

[RoboRiise]

then you see Rawk mod Barney Rubble lock the match thread after 11 pages of posts from people who had the audacity to question the integrity of that performance

 

fukk you rubble - i'd prefer to be a kunt of fan that expects better than a superfan watching us become midtable fodder

 

RAWK is a fucking joke. You tow the party line, or fuck off.

 

Just had a read of RAWK and saw a poster grovelling at a mods feet for forgiveness, and to avoid a ban. The mods on there are on a massive power trip

 

[FanchesterCity]

Although Liverpool's great name isn't going away any time soon, I do feel that the appeal once held by the club is diminishing year on year.

 

Of course, that still has you very much in the list of great clubs, but maybe just less great than before...

 

This makes attracting quality players that much harder, especially with the advent of a few new names on the scene like Spurs, City, Paris St Germaine etc.

 

Winning trophies must be still helping you a great deal. It at least gives potential incoming players some belief you CAN win things by joining Liverpool. That's going to be very important I feel. The FA cup more so than the League cup.

 

All of that said, you can't afford to stay out of CL for more than a couple of seasons, or things just get very messy indeed. The money drops off, the fans get agitated, esp at a club like Liverpool where success is frequent (usually).

 

I think Kenny's a great man, and one of the world's finest players in his time... but I do think it's a mistake for him to come back. I understand all the pros of having him at the club and it's admirable to keep it in the LFC family... in keeping with the long held tradition of the club. I just think it's likely to end in tears and to some extent tarnish fantastic (and tragic) memories of Kenny in his pomp as player and manager.

 

I know I'm stating the obvious (and unpopular view), but Mr Gerrard cannot be relied upon forever. The plans to move on without him have to be put in place now. That's not to say he's 'gone' right now, just that the plans really need to laid out - so that he can be phased out or better utilised in key games. There will soon come a time when (because you adore him), that you'll keep playing him for longer than you really should.... to Liverpool's cost.

 

And now to the big BIG problem (from an outsider's eyes)....

 

You've got a situation at the club now where the majority of players are NOT of the right Liverpool character and spirit.

In the past, you've had enough of those players in the team to nurture new players into 'The Liverpool Way'... but I fear there's a genuine danger of that being lost... you've tipped the scales to the point where the 'proper Liverpool player' is a minority and an aging one too.

 

We're talking about 'character' at the end of the day. Players who get a tingle down their spine playing for Liverpool. Even if not the most gifted player, that 'will to fight' shines through.

 

I don't see that will to fight these days.

You're a good team, but Liverpool have never been a 'good team'... they've been a GREAT team.

 

Sadly, the likes of Kenny and Co are stuck in 'middle management at the club' where the players aren't real Liverpool characters and the ownership isn't either.

 

No top down, or bottom up 'Liverpool Way'... just 4-5 players and a manager having the last drops of Liverpool squeezed out of them.

 

I think you have to start again with the youth of Liverpool. But that comes at a huge price of 4-5 years waiting (and hoping) it can work... and the owner's are unlikely to like that idea, and for the fans?... it's always another few years... followed by another few years...

 

Something quite drastic needs to happen in my opinion :-/

[FanchesterCity]

Hmm, Not for the first time Xerxes? I happen to disagree with a couple of your observations - None more so than the frankly silly statement re' Kenny that "much of which is of his own making."? Complete reactionary misreading of things if you ask me & Not for the First time no? Fact is Kenny is dealing mostly with the guts of the club & the First team itself going from quality enough to supply more than Half the two teams in the last World Cup Final? To barely good enough to win one League Game in Four at Home never mind 2 or 3 in a row in the space of what? 2 seasons flat? In attempting to Reverse that thus far? The bulk of the transfers Kenny has made since his return? Were mostly with the odd exception of the likes of Coates, Bellamy & Suarez were (though very different in price tag relating the mess Man City have made of the market of late with 'market' prices massively inflated OTT) still nonetheless similar to many of Rafa's first tranfers in the likes of Luis Garcia, Josemi, Momo Sissoko, Morientes & Pellegrino; In short? Kenny brought in 'bodies' to fill out the squad which was basically dying on it's feet in terms of numbers before the season began as IIRR? We sold or shipped out something like 4 players for every 1 (and most of them not very good) that we brought in at the backend of the regime of the twin vampires.

 

Anyway you look at that & think That sort of damage & drop in quality can be addressed in One short Full season? Don't make me f*cking laugh. The squad still needs a massive overhaul to even return the First 11 to something like the strength Rafa' had it at in 08/09 & even that took him Four seasons to reach & that's without mentioning the small matters of our squad strength which has been woeful for decades now & finding the right mental mental attitude in so-called 'small' league games which has been completely non-existent from our club (never mind our first team) since around 1991. In short? The required changes? Have barely even begun but Kenny's the man to make them - Who else living has won the league with This club? Answer me that? And I'll name you who else could take the job - The fact there is no answer? Shows as I said that there is no-one else who could do it right now - Certainly not & deliver the chance of 2 trophies which is something on the order of what Rafa' did in his first season & shows Kenny's quality as a manager if nothing else.

 

As to me? I suggest for once that alien & undesirable though the concept might seem to you? That both you & certain others who apparently know nothing of the concept? Try & learn the value of patience - Something tells me we're going to need it for a while yet because as I said before? The serious work done repairing the damage the previous shambles did to us? Has barely yet begun. Man City came from nearly being relegated back in 08/09 to where they are today & it took them nearly 3 full seasons - I suspect without their economic advantages? What We now need to do to compete effectively will take at least 4 if not more seasons; So - much as the reactionary idiots & the "success now!!/short sighted brigade" prats without a Clue might think (who are prob' the same d*ckheads who booed that night we went top?) & much as they might hate it? There's nothing we can do right now except remain patient & get behind the manager & those who I did refer to as the "short-sighted brigade" who with their short sighted, pathetic, ridiculous & diabolically bad views of the sort that Led to this mess by helping remove Rafa'? Are better off F*cking off & never coming back as the one thing they are Not with pathetic little so-called attitudes like That? Is Liverpool fans - I mean with friends like that? Who needs enemies? IMO We're better off without them & their pathetic so-called views as .............

 

There - Redone minus spelling errors; And just to say Xerxes? While I'll agree with you that Kenny has a huge task? Most of it is anything but of his making - That mess he's dealing with? Has been at least 5 if not more years in the making & he's only been here not half of that - Certainly in a position to do anything about it anyway - Think he needs rather more time as yet. Since while turning the oil tanker around is One thing? - Steering it in the correct direction at the fastest speed possible? Is Quite another & right now? We're seeing the difference & will for a good while yet...............

 

NB Ngog's? Whilst I agree with you? I suspect either financial restrictions or control from above were used or exerted rather more pressure than will Ever be talked about in public this January regarding improving our obvious deficiencies that said if what I suspect is True? It certainly makes the Clubs ownership look rather the idiots to say the least. We had Enough 'dead' transfer windows under the previous tossers - We simply cannot afford a repeat anytime soon.........

 

It's very difficult for a single club to completely ruin the transfer market, and there's been plenty of much bigger spenders than City.... Galacticos anybody?

 

City's last dire season was 06/07 finishing 14th, but the rest is reasonably accurate. It's taken us (in reality) about 6 years to get here, and that's with some serious dosh spent in the last 3, and a lot of HAVING to pay over the top prices because quite frankly nobody wanted to come (of the calibre we wanted). This is something Liverpool will soon face (to a lesser extent, but still, it'll be a shock that players aren't dying to come like they used to be).

 

I agree that it's harsh to say much of the current situation of Kenny's own making. He's inherited a bit of a mess, taken a couple of expensive gambles (which he probably had to make), and it's not worked out. There's not a top team in the land who've not done the same...

 

I just don't think the owners have really grasped the TRUE cost of trying to accelerate team progress through purchases... it's very expensive (ask Spurs and City).

 

The only real way forward has to be back to basics with youth players coming through... but do the fans have the patience? (they've been patient for a long time already)

[Liquid football]

Agree with code. That's twice in a week, pal!

[KopOut]

Shelvey is the only one that will make it at Liverpool' date=' Spearing and Henderson are fucking shite.

 

Stuck up for Henderson all season, he does nothing.[/quote']

 

How many seasons did Lucas take utter shit from Liverpool fans, before he finally won acknowledgement?

 

Time is everything.