Avram Grant: worst manager in the Premiership?

[That fella]

Off topic but I know someone who wanted Darren Ferguson to replace Rafa.

 

I had a massive argument with him.

[PestiRed]

Alex Ferguson?

[sir roger]

Not the worst manager obviously, but I absolutely hate Dave Bassett & his wooden teeth.

[Anubis]

[studsup]

Lawrie Sanchez at Fulham was pretty shit. Didn't last long. Attempted to rebuild Fulham into Northern Ireland II with his purchases, had his team playing shit football, and ended his tenure with a 4W - 8D - 12L record.

[TheDrowningMan]

Lawrie Sanchez at Fulham was pretty shit. Didn't last long. Attempted to rebuild Fulham into Northern Ireland II with his purchases, had his team playing shit football, and ended his tenure with a 4W - 8D - 12L record.

 

He could just pip Grant to the post. Always making snide comments about us when presented with the opportunity, too. It's a shame that some risible defending and a Dave Beasant save from a dreadful penalty made his career what it was.

[skowser]

Avram Grant was appointed as Portsmouth DOF by Alexandre Gaydamak who is of Jewish descent. Gaydamak's father is a Russian-Israeli businessman who previously owned Beitar Jerusalem.

 

Roman Abramovich is Jewish and has close ties to Israel and appointed Grant as Chelsea DOF and then Caretaker Manager manager.

 

Grant is now manager of West Ham United who are co-owned by David Gold who also a four by two.

 

Bit racist...

[RoboRiise]

Bit racist...

 

 

Fuck off troll.

[Hakuna-Matata]

Warnock is a dick but he is a talented dick possibly the best English manager.

[satansmutt]

2 ex reds to add to the list Graeme Souness and John Barnes

[moof]

Warnock is a dick but he is a talented dick possibly the best English manager.

 

Fuck me, you're a stupid bastard.

[skowser]

Fuck off troll.

 

Nice...kiss your mother with that mouth? full tongue?

[RoboRiise]

Nice...kiss your mother with that mouth? full tongue?

 

 

Yeah, when I'm done with yours.

 

The message still stands by the way. If you managed to work out how to use a keyboard you can't possibly be stupid enough to interpret those comments as racist, so stop trying to manufacture a controversy where none exists.

[Strontium]

Yeah, it's not racist, it just intimates that all of Avram Grant's employers are racists.

[skowser]

Is this bollock-faced fucking goon the biggest fucking chancer in Premiership history?

 

He's only ever got jobs because of his contacts, or the fact that he's an Israeli.

 

This does have a hint of racism about it, you don't have to agree, its my opinion.

[RoboRiise]

Yeah, it's not racist, it just intimates that all of Avram Grant's employers are racists.

 

 

You know, I had a feeling that you were going to make an appearance in this thread SD. You know I'm not one to make light of the issue, if I thought there was any racist intent here I'd be the first to pull someone on it, but is there really an implication of racism of any kind in that post?

 

I interpreted it as meaning that his stock may be perceived as being somewhat higher by those members of the football community who are of Jewish descent. That isn't in itself racist, it depends on why that may be. If it was just because "he's a Jew and so must be a good egg," I'd agree with you but there are other, more subtle explanations.

 

Perhaps some have a greater awareness of his achievements in Israel due to their familial links to the country. I'm also sure he has strong contacts within the Jewish football community (by which I don't mean some kind of secret sect within the game, merely those people who are involved in fooball and other business concerns at board level and are also Jewish*) and that may also lead to those people looking at his achievements more favourably, not specifically and solely because he is Jewish but because people tend to cut their friends more slack when evaluating their actions.

 

It's hardly an unknown phenomenon for people who share a common racial or religious heritage to be drawn to work together anyway; for years LFC was almost a Scottish enclave - did anyone suggest that was due to inherent racism?

 

Here's a couple of questions to ponder:

 

1. Would we have been successful in signing Pepe Reina, Xabi Alonso, Fernando Morientes and Fernando Torres if we didn't have a Spanish manager at the time?

 

2. Is that racist?

 

 

*Feels ridiculous that I even have to point that out, but with the way this thread is going I think I should.

 

 

This does have a hint of racism about it, you don't have to agree, its my opinion.

 

See above for mine. If you genuinely felt that was a racist comment and weren't trolling then I apologise for suggesting otherwise. I respect your right to an opinion but as you say, I don't agree with it in this case.

[Strontium]

I interpreted it as meaning that his stock may be perceived as being somewhat higher by those members of the football community who are of Jewish descent.

 

 

That's just a different way of saying what I said. The claim is that Avram Grant has only been getting jobs because he is Jewish, rather than because he is a good manager. That would mean his employers are making his race/ethnicity a relevant factor in their recruitment decisions, which would make them racists.

[silverlining]

That's just a different way of saying what I said. The claim is that Avram Grant has only been getting jobs because he is Jewish, rather than because he is a good manager. That would mean his employers are making his race/ethnicity a relevant factor in their recruitment decisions, which would make them racists.

 

Avram Grant has been getting jobs based at least partly on his ethnicity and place of birth, and anyone who tries to dispute that is a twat.

 

I don't care if it makes his employers "racist" but I would argue that it would be a rathe difficult thing to prove.

[DooooodekNo5]

Avram Grant was appointed as Portsmouth DOF by Alexandre Gaydamak who is of Jewish descent. Gaydamak's father is a Russian-Israeli businessman who previously owned Beitar Jerusalem.

 

Roman Abramovich is Jewish and has close ties to Israel and appointed Grant as Chelsea DOF and then Caretaker Manager manager.

 

Grant is now manager of West Ham United who are co-owned by David Gold who also a four by two.

 

 

Next stop Spurs then surely.

[Strontium]

Avram Grant has been getting jobs based at least partly on his ethnicity and place of birth, and anyone who tries to dispute that is a twat.

 

I don't care if it makes his employers "racist" but I would argue that it would be a rathe difficult thing to prove.

 

 

I suppose Harry Redknapp is secretly Jewish too, then, since he's been employed by Jews in the Premier League for even longer than Grant.

[RoboRiise]

I interpreted it as meaning that his stock may be perceived as being somewhat higher by those members of the football community who are of Jewish descent.

That's just a different way of saying what I said. The claim is that Avram Grant has only been getting jobs because he is Jewish, rather than because he is a good manager. That would mean his employers are making his race/ethnicity a relevant factor in their recruitment decisions, which would make them racists.

 

 

Did you read the rest SD or stop there? It's not a different way of saying it at all, it's more of an analysis of cause and effect and I really thought you'd grasp the intellectual distinction that I'm trying to make because it's a pretty important one.

 

If he was only employed by any of those clubs because he was Jewish then I agree completely - their actions would be racist.

 

If on the other hand he was employed by them because their owners thought he could do a decent job, their actions would not be racist.

 

If they'd formed their impression that he could do a decent job in part because they had a greater awareness of his achievements in a league which I think it's fair to say most English fans, managers and club owners have little detailed knowledge of, then he's still got the gig because they have the impression that he can do a decent job; they're just making a judgment based on what they know about him same as any club would do, but they perhaps have the impression that they know a little more about him than most. Nothing racist about that at all.

 

It's no different to a manager who comes to a club from another country having a greater awareness of the quality of particular domestic players playing in his former league and making a decision to buy one or more of them based on that. They may be the same nationality as he is but that's not specifically why he signs them, he signs them because he thinks they're good players. The issue of nationality would nevertheless be an indirect precursor to that decision because his nationality and the fact that he managed in their country are the reasons that he was in a position to acquire that knowledge in the first place. There's nothing racist about it though and it happens all the time.

 

One further question to go with the two unanswered ones in my earlier post. Substitute the word Scottish for Jewish - would we even be having this discussion?

 

For what it's worth, I can certainly understand a need to look more deeply into why any club owner feels that Grant is a good manager because he quite clearly isn't. He did reasonably well with Chelsea compared to an average league side's expectations, but at the time they had a squad packed out with top class talent - Fat Sam could have got them a top three finish and a cup final. He fucked Portsmouth. He's now fucking West Ham.

 

Incidentally, I don't believe Gold appointed him on the basis of his Jewish heritage,or because of any in-depth knowledge he felt he had of Grant's career in Israel. I'm fairly sure that Gold appointed him because he's a fucking imbecilic dildo salesman.

[Wor Horse]

Oy.

[PestiRed]

I'm fairly sure that Gold appointed him because he's a fucking imbecilic dildo salesman.

 

Spot on. These are the owners that kept the "poor man's Redknapp" Barry Fry for years

[silverlining]

I suppose Harry Redknapp is secretly Jewish too, then, since he's been employed by Jews in the Premier League for even longer than Grant.

 

Are you trying to miss the point on purpose?

 

Redknapp gets jobs because he's a decent manager who can get results.

 

Are you trying to suggest that Average Grunt got the fucking CHELSEA job based on his achievements in football alone?

 

Or are you a bigger twat than even I thought you were?

[Hakuna-Matata]

Fuck me, you're a stupid bastard.

 

ah another person on this site that doesn't know enough about football to enter into a discussion about it. Well done.