Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

How is that the same thing? I didn't elect David Cameron. If I was a Tory, you would have a point.

 

You need to think about it and try again. Firstly, Paul Kenny ran unopposed. Secondly, it doesn't matter whether or not you voted for Cameron, in your example he'd still be talking for you. I said it to point out the utter idiocy of your remarks.

 

To be more clear, I'm backing up my comments about it being a person, not 'people'.

[Rocky Sullivan]

"ten-a-penny grunts." That's an illuminating turn of phrase.

[Strontium]

You need to think about it and try again. Firstly, Paul Kenny ran unopposed. Secondly, it doesn't matter whether or not you voted for Cameron, in your example he'd still be talking for you. I said it to point out the utter idiocy of your remarks.

 

To be more clear, I'm backing up my comments about it being a person, not 'people'.

 

 

I acknowledge that it's a person, singular, all I'm saying is that when that person is the head of the union, what he says can hardly be put down as the rantings of some fringe lunatic. This kind of hyperbole is extremely unhelpful.

 

"ten-a-penny grunts." That's an illuminating turn of phrase.

 

 

It's an unfortunately realistic one. Labour is incredibly cheap in our global economy.

[sparta7]

I acknowledge that it's a person, singular, all I'm saying is that when that person is the head of the union, what he says can hardly be put down as the rantings of some fringe lunatic. This kind of hyperbole is extremely unhelpful.

 

 

 

 

It's an unfortunately realistic one. Labour is incredibly cheap in our global economy.

 

The answer of a politician who left the microphone on. Arrogance in the extreme.

[Strontium]

The answer of a politician who left the microphone on. Arrogance in the extreme.

 

 

What are you fucking talking about? Facts are neutral, expressing them cannot be arrogant.

[sparta7]

What are you fucking talking about? Facts are neutral, expressing them cannot be arrogant.

 

I'm talking about the fact that you are a typical fucking Tory. You know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

[VladimirIlyich]

How is that the same thing? I didn't elect David Cameron. If I was a Tory, you would have a point.

 

 

 

 

Is there any need for that? That is well out of order.

 

 

 

 

Not quite the same level of threat if it's ten-a-penny grunts threatening to leave the country though. There's hardly a national labour shortage at the moment, in case you hadn't noticed.

 

You seem to moan (a lot) but I don't know what you want us to do about the mobility of the wealthy and of capital. Should we bar the wealthy from leaving the country? Tax them on their wife's assets, perhaps, even when their wife lives in Monaco?

 

Lots of hot air, but come back when you have some practical ideas.

 

No, we should buy them all one way tickets to Marbella,with the other robbers and create new wealth by employing people who realise how fucking lucky they are to be paid big salaries for doing a relatively easy job.

 

Its not as if they've done anything worthwhile in recent years is it apart from contribute to bringing the world to its knees and make themselves richer at the public's expense.

[Stu Monty]

Is there any need for that? That is well out of order.

 

Not quite the same level of threat if it's ten-a-penny grunts threatening to leave the country though. There's hardly a national labour shortage at the moment, in case you hadn't noticed.

 

You seem to moan (a lot) but I don't know what you want us to do about the mobility of the wealthy and of capital. Should we bar the wealthy from leaving the country? Tax them on their wife's assets, perhaps, even when their wife lives in Monaco?

 

Lots of hot air, but come back when you have some practical ideas.

 

It's not out of order at all. It's bang on the money. I was going to post a picture of that Jew from Schindler's List that is helping to herd everyone else to their fate but took it down a notch out of some remaining respect; still applies though.

 

So let me get this straight, you come on telling us that people thinking of striking need to be told some home truths but then with your next post point out what patheticly small amounts of power they have as individuals. Yes, they know that you fucking mong, that's why they need to strike; because they can't just offshore all their cash to Monaco and whip the Tories a few more quid for their next election budget.

 

You really are horribly caught between two stools. You bang on about talk of goverments being under the thumb of private wealth as being conspiracy theories but then throw up your hands at how futile it is to actually govern those people.

 

I've said many, many times that I'd set up tax laws where they either pay or they fuck off. They'd pay. And if they didn't then there's be a queue of people to jump in their shoes in one of the most developed countries in the world with a good infrastructure. The flaw in that is in thinking that government actually want to change the current situation, as they don't, they'll just take from the masses and give to the bloated.

 

That aside, I don't have to offer practical ideas to rip to shreds something that is clearly completely fucked. I can happily stand here and denounce it without actually knowing the solution, that doesn't strip me of my right to voice the obvious. The difference between us is that we're both at the circus but whilst I call it for what it is you try and call it a play, whilst having a bucket of confetti thrown in your face by a bloke in size twenty three shoes.

 

Know your enemy.

[Strontium]

I'm talking about the fact that you are a typical fucking Tory. You know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

 

I apologise for using unemotive, neutral things like "facts" and "figures". I'll try to ramp up the hysterically emotional polemic more in future for the benefit of you, and everyone else who thinks ill-informed ranting is a substitute for proper debate.

 

 

It's not out of order at all. It's bang on the money. I was going to post a picture of that Jew from Schindler's List that is helping to herd everyone else to their fate but took it down a notch out of some remaining respect; still applies though.

 

 

Yeah, well you can fuck right off with that.

 

So let me get this straight, you come on telling us that people thinking of striking need to be told some home truths but then with your next post point out what patheticly small amounts of power they have as individuals. Yes, they know that you fucking mong, that's why they need to strike; because they can't just offshore all their cash to Monaco and whip the Tories a few more quid for their next election budget.

 

 

There's something missing from your posts, most commonly referred to as logic.

 

Maybe you can tell me what good striking is going to do in this instance, and what it can achieve?

 

I mean, call me old-fashioned, but I like to think industrial action should have, you know, a purpose. "Sticking it to the man" might be good enough reason for the Marxist ideologues desperate to martyr themselves in holy jihad against the Tories, but it's not going to do your average worker any good is it?

 

You really are horribly caught between two stools. You bang on about talk of goverments being under the thumb of private wealth as being conspiracy theories but then throw up your hands at how futile it is to actually govern those people.

 

 

Eventually Stu you are going to have to deal with the world as it really is, rather than the world as you would like it to be.

 

I've said many, many times that I'd set up tax laws where they either pay or they fuck off. They'd pay.

 

 

I think that's somewhat optimistic. What the fuck would they hang around here for to be bled dry by punitive tax rates when they can just up sticks and live somewhere else?

 

That aside, I don't have to offer practical ideas to rip to shreds something that is clearly completely fucked.

 

 

Clearly. Unfortunately, just being able to recognise imbalances and loopholes in the system is practically useless if you have no idea what to do about them. The unions can pull this voodoo figure of £120bn a year out of the ether, but writing "£120 billion" and collecting it are such very different things.

[Stu Monty]

Bled dry by punitive rates? Were talking about getting them to pay tax, just some tax, any tax. Just to pay maybe the same rate that the lass who cleans the shit off their toilet bowl does. Collective action is the only thing the masses have left to fight against the fucking land-grab that's going on with regard to public resources, and you think that it has no purpose? Lunacy.

 

And for "Sticking it to the man" you can insert "Standing up for yourself to shelve destructive plans", although that is clearly not the sort of talk the Lid Dems are cool with. I'm loving your "It's hard to do so let's not bother" approach to collecting tax from them too, maybe that should be applied to all law?

 

Keep trying to talk down to me with your "clearly" bollocks and I'll have to go on your Liberal forum and see how many times you've gone back there with questions from here and taken a completely different tone, like the last time with your question about public and private incentivisation. I deal with the world how it is, it's you that likes to play politician and pretend that the game isn't completely fucking rigged. Do you take that tone with people on the doorstep? "Well if you don't have a plan for closing the loopholes in the tax laws then why the fuck are you bleating to me?" What an asset you must be.

 

The don't have clown cars at the RSC you know.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Stu Monty

[TheBitch]

[Liverpool Lad] Can anyone sum this thread up please? [/Liverpool Lad]

[Strontium]

Bled dry by punitive rates? Were talking about getting them to pay tax, just some tax, any tax.

 

 

They do pay some tax, what you want is for them to pay more. That's fine, you will find very few people who disagree with you, even in the Tory party. It's all rather impotent stuff if you don't have a way of getting it though.

 

Just to pay maybe the same rate that the lass who cleans the shit off their toilet bowl does. Collective action is the only thing the masses have left to fight against the fucking land-grab that's going on with regard to public resources, and you think that it has no purpose? Lunacy.

 

 

So let's assume the strikes achieve whatever they're supposed to achieve, and the government changes its mind about whatever it's supposed to be changing its mind about. This leaves the country in the same position as it was before, spending way more money than it brings in. What is your alternative solution to the problem? Or are you one of these deficit deniers who doesn't even believe there is a problem, that we can just let the debt keep mounting and never deal with it?

 

And for "Sticking it to the man" you can insert "Standing up for yourself to shelve destructive plans", although that is clearly not the sort of talk the Lid Dems are cool with. I'm loving your "It's hard to do so let's not bother" approach to collecting tax from them too, maybe that should be applied to all law?

 

 

It's not about not collecting tax for them because it's too hard. There is no tax to collect from them. Someone like Philip Green is paying all the tax he is legally obliged to pay. He is not breaking any laws. What are you proposing to do there? Seize his businesses (or, more accurately, his Monaco-based wife's businesses) from him because it's not "fair"? Well, I guess there's a precedent for that kind of thing in history (oh yes, we can both make lazy comparisons to the Nazis, Stu).

 

Keep trying to talk down to me with your "clearly" bollocks and I'll have to go on your Liberal forum and see how many times you've gone back there with questions from here and taken a completely different tone, like the last time with your question about public and private incentivisation.

 

 

You've got that ass-backwards. I asked questions on that forum (which no longer exists) years before someone asked me similar questions on this one.

 

I deal with the world how it is, it's you that likes to play politician and pretend that the game isn't completely fucking rigged. Do you take that tone with people on the doorstep? "Well if you don't have a plan for closing the loopholes in the tax laws then why the fuck are you bleating to me?" What an asset you must be.

 

 

No, what I would say is that Labour had 13 years to close these loopholes, and they didn't manage it either.

[dennis tooth]

Know your enemy.

 

Ignore him hes an idiot.

[dennis tooth]

A complete total woppa who predicts and then revises after facts and the next prediction is even surer about how right he is.

 

Everything is black and white to him which tells you he is a sure fire class A idiot banned under the mental health act.

 

I don't understand why anyone bothers to even engage him and his little childs book of politics telling you anything worth doing is rather impotent stuff and tell you this is 'grown up politics', he is the dullest dusty dullard but pull his political pant leg up and theres the clownest shoe you ever spotted, squeeze his lapel and a gush of water shoots out, his hands are like spades, give his something delecate such as a glossy magazine to fiddle with and watch him struggle to open and then smash it down in anger. Then he say that Labour couldn't get it open either!

He's a joke make who flitters between a very narrow spectrum of the elite consensus and thinks he is some sort of radical for being conservative.

 

He looks down on people like binmen and says they are grunts, lesser peoples, not worth a carrot.

 

Me and Stu say we take off and nuke the site from orbit, this fool wants to collect Phillip Green specimens back home or failing that impregnate our minds with apathy and hope that a Phillip Green hatches on the return trip destroying us all. The worst kind of treacherous cretin, I can see why he hates communist russia so much as he'd be hung from a lamppost for being such a brownnose, sucking up to the power centres and turning round to push the ladder down behind him telling the poor theres no more room at the top.

 

Reason, compassion and such things are alien to him, he likes facts and figures like all concentration camp guards who just like to follow black and white orders from above and reduce humans to numbers becuase it's a bit easier than dealing with all the complexities of real life so why pursue him?

 

Stu its about as useful as buying as wristwatch for your cat in the end, don't fuel the fool with attention and let him die out.

[Rocky Sullivan]

Dennis you're so much more readable when you use paragraphs.

[torahboy]

A complete total woppa who predicts and then revises after facts and the next prediction is even surer about how right he is.

 

Everything is black and white to him which tells you he is a sure fire class A idiot banned under the mental health act.

 

I don't understand why anyone bothers to even engage him and his little childs book of politics telling you anything worth doing is rather impotent stuff and tell you this is 'grown up politics', he is the dullest dusty dullard but pull his political pant leg up and theres the clownest shoe you ever spotted, squeeze his lapel and a gush of water shoots out, his hands are like spades, give his something delecate such as a glossy magazine to fiddle with and watch him struggle to open and then smash it down in anger. Then he say that Labour couldn't get it open either!

He's a joke make who flitters between a very narrow spectrum of the elite consensus and thinks he is some sort of radical for being conservative.

 

He looks down on people like binmen and says they are grunts, lesser peoples, not worth a carrot.

 

Me and Stu say we take off and nuke the site from orbit, this fool wants to collect Phillip Green specimens back home or failing that impregnate our minds with apathy and hope that a Phillip Green hatches on the return trip destroying us all. The worst kind of treacherous cretin, I can see why he hates communist russia so much as he'd be hung from a lamppost for being such a brownnose, sucking up to the power centres and turning round to push the ladder down behind him telling the poor theres no more room at the top.

 

Reason, compassion and such things are alien to him, he likes facts and figures like all concentration camp guards who just like to follow black and white orders from above and reduce humans to numbers becuase it's a bit easier than dealing with all the complexities of real life so why pursue him?

 

Stu its about as useful as buying as wristwatch for your cat in the end, don't fuel the fool with attention and let him die out.

 

 

Must we wait? Can't someone just kill him now?

[Strontium]

Must we wait? Can't someone just kill him now?

 

 

Gutless little shithouse hiding behind an anonymous name and telling other members they should be killed.

 

Rashid, WATB and PB15 were banned for less.

[Stu Monty]

They do pay some tax, what you want is for them to pay more. That's fine, you will find very few people who disagree with you, even in the Tory party. It's all rather impotent stuff if you don't have a way of getting it though.

 

No, they don't pay tax. Any tax. At all. Loads of massive corporations and wealthy individuals avoid tax completely. They pay NO tax. I'd be happy with them paying the same as me, it would be a start.

 

 

So let's assume the strikes achieve whatever they're supposed to achieve, and the government changes its mind about whatever it's supposed to be changing its mind about. This leaves the country in the same position as it was before, spending way more money than it brings in. What is your alternative solution to the problem? Or are you one of these deficit deniers who doesn't even believe there is a problem, that we can just let the debt keep mounting and never deal with it?

 

It's not about not collecting tax for them because it's too hard. There is no tax to collect from them. Someone like Philip Green is paying all the tax he is legally obliged to pay. He is not breaking any laws. What are you proposing to do there? Seize his businesses (or, more accurately, his Monaco-based wife's businesses) from him because it's not "fair"? Well, I guess there's a precedent for that kind of thing in history (oh yes, we can both make lazy comparisons to the Nazis, Stu).

 

Then you oblige them to pay it. What part of that aren't you getting? You govern the country for the majority, not the minority. You legislate instead of thowing up your hands and saying "Oh deary me". You have some bottle and call some of them on their bluffs. You really think that if Tesco left nobody would fill that void and sell groceries, even if they knew they'd be chased aggresively for corporation and income tax? Laughable. Getting everyone in the country to pay their share sorts the deficit in no time at all, it isn't rocket science.

 

No, what I would say is that Labour had 13 years to close these loopholes, and they didn't manage it either.

 

Once again your partizanship has blinded you to the sight of a man who could not give one bright shiny fuck about what Labour did, and pities you for the fact that you would use "But we're all as shit as each other" as a defence mechanism. If you were in a coalition with Labour, I'd still be making these points on the same issues and you'd be defending your Labour partner and littering your posts with "We" and "Us".

 

I find this whole exercise daft though. We are having a discussion about what, in theory, a government might do if it wasn't completely at the demands of the wealthy and actually had any desire to change the situation. It doesn't, and if it looked like it might do then the 1% would soon crush it.

 

Are your posts an admission that governments can no longer exercise power over the minority of the world's wealthy, and are actually subserviant to them? Are you accepting that? And as such we are only going to be given the options that suit them to choose from?

 

Oh, and the reason you're getting so much stick, some undeserved, is because you take assaults on the government on board as personal attacks. You respond to a post about the NHS with "What can WE do". If you are deciding to be the TLW face of the Liberal Party then when someone is raging because their hospital is being closed down they are quite likely to make quips about you popping off this mortal coil. I'd have a proper belly laugh if Cameron smashed his car up tomorrow. Stop personifying the government and you'll get less shit.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Gutless little shithouse hiding behind an anonymous name and telling other members they should be killed.

 

Rashid, WATB and PB15 were banned for less.

 

Grow the fuck up, SD.

[lifetime fan]

Gutless little shithouse hiding behind an anonymous name and telling other members they should be killed.

 

Rashid, WATB and PB15 were banned for less.

 

[Strontium]

People are telling me I should be killed for expressing an opinion and I'm the one who needs to grow up. Righto.

 

Couple of irredeemably evil posters now added to an ignore list.

[Stu Monty]

You're not expressing an opinion, you're governing the country. If you keep saying stupid things like "What do you expect us to do?" then you're not giving an opinion are you? You're here as a Liberal Party representative and will take what comes with that. People are pissed off with the country being dismantled, take the rossette off if you don't want people treating you like shit.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

People are telling me I should be killed for expressing an opinion and I'm the one who needs to grow up. Righto.

 

This is you in full victim mode. Again. He's not actually suggesting you should be killed, he was making an off the cuff joke. I suspect you already know this, what with it being so clear, but decided to go into another woe is me session. Knock it off.

[torahboy]

Gutless little shithouse hiding behind an anonymous name and telling other members they should be killed.

 

Rashid, WATB and PB15 were banned for less.

 

 

 

Danny boy, you're a fucking child. I would refer you to your 'neg', well, several 'negs', but a particular one when you added the advice "Kill yourself". Now you are accusing me of 'hiding' behind an anonymous name. Check your messages, you horrible Zionist pile of prejudice and we'll take it from there.

[Strontium]

You're not expressing an opinion, you're governing the country.

 

 

I'm not, though, am I? I really am just expressing an opinion.

 

People are pissed off with the country being dismantled, take the rossette off if you don't want people treating you like shit.

 

 

That is absolutely pathetic. I should be able to identify as a Lib Dem without people treating me like shit for it.

 

Would you treat me like shit if you spoke to me in a bar? At the match? Just because you disagree with me on... whatever it is you disagree with me about?

 

This is you in full victim mode. Again. He's not actually suggesting you should be killed, he was making an off the cuff joke. I suspect you already know this, what with it being so clear, but decided to go into another woe is me session. Knock it off.

 

 

Jokes are funny. Being threatened by an anonymous racist shithouse on the Internet isn't funny. PaddyBerger15 got banned for less, that is an absolute fact. I have never done anything to "torahboy" but he is congenitally incapable of having a civilised conversation.

 

Fuck yes he means it, absolutely he does. Why wouldn't he? I do. He is a piece of worthless shitscum who hates me for no reason. A gutless coward who regularly attacks me for who I am and what I am from behind a veil of anonymity.