I am Losing Faith

[Jose M]

I read Anny's post as implying that if he thought the owner/budget restrictions were too great then he shouldn't have signed the contract in the 1st place.

 

I was responding to that. If he didn't mean that, then cool.

 

Even if he did, so what? I really couldn't care less if he's as shallow and wealth obsessed as you and only here for the money, that still doesn't excuse the complete regression and he needs replacing with someone who can make better use of the money available to him and instill confidence in his players and build a consistant brand of good quality football.

[Anny Road]

I read Anny's post as implying that if he thought the owner/budget restrictions were too great then he shouldn't have signed the contract in the 1st place.

 

I was responding to that. If he didn't mean that, then cool.

I did mean that. If he signed the contract purely for the money with no aspirations to win anything all the more reason to sack him.

Torres and Gerrard both have whacking great contracts but I be pretty sure winning things is what motivates them more. You can see it in them they are winners. I would totally understand if they both fucked of to somewhere else to win trophies.

[Guest the boy]

After we finished second?

 

No; after we scored 8 against United and Madrid. Wait, what?

[Delmar]

I did mean that. If he signed the contract purely for the money with no aspirations to win anything all the more reason to sack him.

Torres and Gerrard both have whacking great contracts but I be pretty sure winning things is what motivates them more. You can see it in them they are winners. I would totally understand if they both fucked of to somewhere else to win trophies.

 

Torres could probably almost double his salary, he is incredibly loyal, as he was at Atletico. Gerrard would find it harder, unless he moved abroad, which is not within his nature. And he would just lose faith after all the promises made in public. Money plays a huge part, winning plays a huge part, it depends a lot on the individual, and mostly we here can just guess.

 

A previous poster said that Mourinho would probably come here for the salary of Benitez. Let's turn this around a bit. Would you or anyone here go and work for LFC for 40-50% of what you are making now?

[Warwick Hunt]

I'd do the job for half of Mourinho's salary, not my current one

 

Seriously though, these poll results are becoming quite damning

[betterman]

Torres could probably almost double his salary, he is incredibly loyal, as he was at Atletico. Gerrard would find it harder, unless he moved abroad, which is not within his nature. And he would just lose faith after all the promises made in public. Money plays a huge part, winning plays a huge part, it depends a lot on the individual, and mostly we here can just guess.

 

A previous poster said that Mourinho would probably come here for the salary of Benitez. Let's turn this around a bit. Would you or anyone here go and work for LFC for 40-50% of what you are making now?

 

Well i guessed last season that I Alonso would playing in a white kit next year with Ronaldo beside him. Im now guessing Torres will be playing in some shade of blue next season.

[G Richards]

should have got rid last year but nobody would listen.

 

After going closer to winning the Prem than we've ever been before? After scoring goals for fun and playing the sort of football that captures hearts?

 

I have to disagree with you on that one Tom.

[Jose M]

After going closer to winning the Prem than we've ever been before? After scoring goals for fun and playing the sort of football that captures hearts?

 

Come on, football that captures the hearts? Do you remember West Ham at home? We were hopeless for a good third of the season, mainly thanks to the manager's tinkering and public contract negotiations, and threw away a massive lead. If not for our usual end of season spurt when the pressure was off and the mancs taking their foot off the gas, probably through boredom, we'd have finished way behind.

 

We should have gone all the way last season but it's indicative of our current standards that so many were happy with 2nd and a win over the mancs and Madrid.

[betterman]

After going closer to winning the Prem than we've ever been before? After scoring goals for fun and playing the sort of football that captures hearts?

 

I have to disagree with you on that one Tom.

 

How many games did we draw against shit teams? Dont just mention the good points? I really dont get this Rafa is untouchable shit. It is plain to see he aint capable of delivering the league title. And in fairness that is the one that matters.

[G Richards]

Come on, football that captures the hearts?

 

Of course I'm only talking about the last half of the season (maybe even last third).

 

My point is that we signed off last season on a positive note and could look forward with relish to this campaign. We were top scorers. We were wiping the floor with teams. We were playing great football. Granted, we hadn't won the title, but we had gone closer than ever before in the Prem era. In other words, the trend was upward. Anyone could see that.

 

To sack Rafa in the summer would have been strange beyond belief.

 

Obviously we have regressed this season, so Rafa is, rightly, on thin ice.

 

I would say wait to see what this season brings and be ready to act in the summer if necessary.

[betterman]

Of course I'm only talking about the last half of the season (maybe even last third).

 

My point is that we signed off last season on a positive note and could look forward with relish to this campaign. We were top scorers. We were wiping the floor with teams. We were playing great football. Granted, we hadn't won the title, but we had gone closer than ever before in the Prem era. In other words, the trend was upward. Anyone could see that.

 

To sack Rafa in the summer would have been strange beyond belief.

 

Obviously we have regressed this season, so Rafa is, rightly, on thin ice.

 

I would say wait to see what this season brings and be ready to act in the summer if necessary.

 

Well the only one thing we can say with an degree of certainty is it cant get any worse. Well provided we dont see Vor... dont even want to say his name.

[G Richards]

How many games did we draw against shit teams? Dont just mention the good points? I really dont get this Rafa is untouchable shit. It is plain to see he aint capable of delivering the league title. And in fairness that is the one that matters.

 

We all know we drew loads of games against rubbish teams last season. That is a point that doesn't need to be made any longer.

 

The point I am making is simply this: changing manager last summer would have been a strange decision, given we went closer than ever before to the Prem title, given we were top scorers and given the positive way in which we played out the last third of the season.

 

I know what went before, and frankly, had the rest of the season been a series of draws and underperformance, resulting in a damp squib fourth place also-ran finish, then perhaps Rafa would have been sacked.

 

But he wasn't sacked, and I think this was the right decision becasue he delivered the title challenge fans said they wanted at the start of the season.

 

Again - we have have regressed this season, that can't be doubted. Now is the time to be calm and wait to see what the season in its entirety brings. We should be ready to act in the summer, if necessary.

[zigackly]

If he signed the contract purely for the money with no aspirations to win anything all the more reason to sack him.

 

I don't believe that for a fraction of a second Anny. You can see he's absolutely gutted with the performances during the match and when he walks off the pitch at half time and full time. I don't think he has ever looked so dejected as he does when we're playing right now. The problem is his motives are totally irrelevent; it's whether he is capable of doing the job that counts.

[betterman]

We all know we drew loads of games against rubbish teams last season. That is a point that doesn't need to be made any longer.

 

The point I am making is simply this: changing manager last summer would have been a strange decision, given we went closer than ever before to the Prem title, given we were top scorers and given the positive way in which we played out the last third of the season.

 

I know what went before, and frankly, had the rest of the season been a series of draws and underperformance, resulting in a damp squib fourth place also-ran finish, then perhaps Rafa would have been sacked.

 

But he wasn't sacked, and I think this was the right decision becasue he delivered the title challenge fans said they wanted at the start of the season.

 

Again - we have have regressed this season, that can't be doubted. Now is the time to be calm and wait to see what the season in its entirety brings. We should be ready to act in the summer, if necessary.

 

I can see where you are coming from. When was his contract due to be up before it was renewed?

[G Richards]

PS - I voted in the middle category - 'Losing faith, but waiting until the summer'.

 

Rafa has made mistakes and he hasn't got the best out of the players thus far this season, even taking into account injuries and so on.

 

I still can't escape the nagging feeling that he hasn't really spent any money in the past two seasons and moved the team on. All he has been allowed to do is stand still.

 

Rafa is, at the moment, a problem because he needs to up his game. Perhaps he will. Perhaps he won't. If he doesn't, then come the summer he should rightly be moved on.

 

But by far the biggest problem is above Rafa and I can't lose sight of that fact. It overshadows any discussion about the manager's performance.

[Steve Holt]

I never thought I'd say this but I feel like I am starting to lose faith in Rafa. Its gutting cos I think the man is a legend. I just don't know if there is anything more he can do here. Which is particularly gutting after the season we had last season. How different things would be now if we had won the league. But we'll never know.

 

I don't want to see him sacked, not yet. But I don't know how he can get the players performing, short of playing united every week.

[G Richards]

I can see where you are coming from. When was his contract due to be up before it was renewed?

 

I'm not sure, but I think it was a mistake to give him 5 years.

 

You want the right balance. One year, and he could potentially be poached by a moneybags team, especially if we do well. Five years, and he becomes 'safer' and harder to remove if it goes badly.

 

I would have split the difference and given him no more than three years.

[Ted]

We can't afford to sack him, but equally can we afford not to?

 

If the rot continues to spread throughout Winter and into the New Year we simply can not sit twiddling our thumbs and pretending we'll turn a corner.

[Hooch]

Not having a go here LFD, but can I just say private polls are badly gay.

 

Rightly or wrongly I like to see who thinks what.

[Anny Road]

I don't believe that for a fraction of a second Anny. You can see he's absolutely gutted with the performances during the match and when he walks off the pitch at half time and full time. I don't think he has ever looked so dejected as he does when we're playing right now. The problem is his motives are totally irrelevent; it's whether he is capable of doing the job that counts.

 

Zig I'm not suggesting he isn't upset to lose but I am thinking they maybe he had an inkling that we were not going to be competitive given the financial constraints imposed upon him. That's why he insisted on 5 years.

Develop the academy and meet the owners minimum requirement of top 4 every year. Remember it's not about winning trophies as he said.

I genuinely believe he had been told don't worry you will not be sacked for finishing 4th every year.

 

And if it all goes tits up there is 8m reasons a year not to worry too much.

[Xherdan]

If Inter fail to beat Rubin they are out of the CL and chances are Morinho will either get the axe or walk away. If this happens I think we should go for him.

 

Will he be better than Rafa? Who knows. BUt at least it would bring something different to the team, different to the shite we have been watching recently.

 

If I was asked this question two weeks ago I would have said keep Rafa but I am very close to the point of no return. A loss on Sunday and I will be officially calling for his head.

[old skool tom]

Well i guessed last season that I Alonso would playing in a white kit next year with Ronaldo beside him. Im now guessing Torres will be playing in some shade of blue next season.

 

i'll go for red and black stripes...........didnt he say that to an italian journo a couple of years back?

[billybonzo]

Yeah lets get Jose twatface in cause his style of football was enthralling...

 

 

Alexi Lalas on the other hand....

[Ian Sea]

I'm losing faith but would stick with Rafa until at least the summer.

 

My reasons being; he's got us into this mess and to sack him now would almost be the easy way out for him. Let's give him the opportunity to right his wrongs.

 

Also, if we wait until the end of the season the ownership situation may have been resolved (although I won't hold my breath). Or it could be closer to being resolved. If new owners were to come in they could then either bring in their own man (which wouldn't bother me in the slightest) or they could stick with Rafa (and I'd love to see him manage us when we're owned a competant person and well ran - something that Rafa has never had in his time here).

 

I have to say though, if Rafa is sacked during this season I won't shed any tears. If it were up to me though, I would wait until summer.

[Catch22]

I did mean that. If he signed the contract purely for the money with no aspirations to win anything all the more reason to sack him.

Torres and Gerrard both have whacking great contracts but I be pretty sure winning things is what motivates them more. You can see it in them they are winners. I would totally understand if they both fucked of to somewhere else to win trophies.

 

Fair enough & i do see your point.

Rafa has won the top trophy in club football & the best League in world football so he can hardly be classified as not a winner though.

 

I also agree with your last point:

Realistically & it feels dirty to write it,if either of them want to win the PL they have to fuck off to City or the Chavs.

However,going forward, unless there is a substantial purse loosening at Arse & the Mancs that applies to any of their players too....

 

Whilst if they want to win La Liga there are only 2 teams they can possibly join, 1 of whom Torres won't.