In Rafa we trust? Go fuck yourself

[Antynwa]

Keane was used as a political pawn.

 

People point to the fact he was sold on, he shouldn't have been there in the first place.

[zigackly]

Keane was unremittingly shite. A decent player would have forced the manager to use him more by showing it on the pitch. In the same way that Alonso did last season even though many would have you believe he and Rafa couldn't stand each other.

[Catch22]

Keane was used as a political pawn.

 

People point to the fact he was sold on, he shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

He can't have been a political pawn AND wanted by Rafa, which you have accused him of before.

 

He was Rafa's 2nd choice & Parry overstepped his mark to move him up the list.

 

This is incidentally exactly the same way that Shevchenko ended up at the Chavs.

He was 2nd on Jose's wanted list & the owner decided to jump him up.

 

In my book, Rafa (& Jose) are still responsible though.

He should never have been anywhere near any list, let alone 2nd.

 

When he got here, he wasn't nearly good enough.

 

There is a very good reason for that: He hasn't got it either ability wise or mentally at the very highest level.

He was 28 & had never managed 1 CL outing before we got him, which is a damning statistic.

 

He has twice been at a very big club, failed dismally & been shipped out asap.

Was Rafa responsible for his dreadful time at Inter?

 

Terrible signing & i still thank our lucky stars (& maybe our stationary department for arranging an extra large consignment of brown envelopes) that we managed to get rid of him as quickly & at such a good price as we did.

[Liverpool lad]

So what actually happened with Keane? I have heard a few different stories

[RedBrian84]

Whatever your thoughts and feelings about the manager- we are a poisoned chalice.

 

I'm not getting into the whole "I hate Rafa get him out" vs "no, he's still the right man for the job" debacle at the minute because I don't believe changing the manager mid-season is the right course of action at all. Shit like that very rarely works, and even then it's only with teams that manage to haul their arses out of the drop zone before the end of May.

 

All I will say is that- as so many have pointed out here- no top class manager in their right mind would see our club as a healthy prospect. No money, gobshite, mercenary fuckwit owners, a MD that seems like he crawls out of the said owner's arses to make stupid comments, and a squad that is severely demorilised.

 

Hiddink? He'd laugh in your face.

 

Although I do feel it necessary to point out here that some of the attitudes from our players are fucking shocking. Regardless of the manager, they owe it the fans to give their absolute best week in, week out. They owe it to the fucking shirt. And yet some of them don't look like they give a fuck.

 

Being in the Europa League should be a fucking wake up call to both the players and the management. Don't want to be there? Well fucking try harder. Show some fucking guts and desire to be in the competitions you and the fans want to be in. It would be very easy for some players to hide behind the manager at a time like this and point to bad luck, rotation, the allignment of the stars and planets or some other pile of shite ecuse, but come the end of the season, I'm not just going to hold the manager responsible for the mess we're in- and we may not be yet, even now you never know- I'll be holding the players to account too.

 

From now- starting with Everton on Sunday- I want to see the players give absolutely everything to win absolutely every game. Go out an try their damned hardest to win the Europa League, regardless of what your thoughts are about it. The way I see it is tht the management team and the squad of players owe every fan something a hell of a lot better than this. Especially those who travel the length and breadth of England and Europe to watch the team.

 

I truly hope that Tuesady night was the bottom of a very long, dark drop. Now we need to start climbing back up again.

[Cij]

This is key I think. There needs, for example, to be some sign that he’s recognising how shit we are from set pieces (both attacking and defending) and rectifying that over the coming weeks. In the past I think we’ve seen Rafa spot problems and fix them; so far this season he hasn’t dealt with this glaring problem and I’m not sure why.

 

I think our set piece vulnerability is attributable to the loss of Hyppia, Riise, Crouch, Sissoko and Alonso over recent seasons. All of these players were significantly taller than their replacements and this has undoubtedly contributed to our problems.

 

Our team this season regularly includes Mascherano (5’7’’), Lucas (5’8’’), Insua (5’8’’), Carragher (5’10’’), Benayoun (5’8’’) and Aurelio (5’8’’). When the team contains only four outfield players over 6 foot we are going to have trouble defending corners and free kicks irrespective of whether we employ zonal or man to man marking.

 

This is constantly overlooked by the media but we will continue to struggle until we address the lack of height within the team. The introduction of Riera (6’1’’) and Aquilani (6’1’’) should help alleviate the problem to some degree but height should definitely be taken into consideration when contemplating any future signings.

 

Ultimately Rafa must shoulder the blame for our persistent shortcomings at set pieces as his transfer dealings and team selections have drastically reduced the aerial ability within the team. Having said all that, I think we can easily rectify the problem and hopefully Rafa will in the near future.

 

This management lark is a piece of piss... :whistle:

[Unrighteous]

Carragher is 6'1"

 

Also, something to take into consideration is that El Zhar is 5'5", Eccleston is 5'10", Spearing is 5'6"/5'7", Stephen Darby is 5'8", etc.

[Cij]

I am just working off Carra's stats on the offal but then again we all know how reliable that is...

[navbasi]

Speak to most Tottenhan fans on what they think of Keane and they'll tell you he's shite. I think we did fantastically well to get £16m for him when we did.

[navbasi]

I think our set piece vulnerability is attributable to the loss of Hyppia, Riise, Crouch, Sissoko and Alonso over recent seasons. All of these players were significantly taller than their replacements and this has undoubtedly contributed to our problems.

 

Our team this season regularly includes Mascherano (5’7’’), Lucas (5’8’’), Insua (5’8’’), Carragher (5’10’’), Benayoun (5’8’’) and Aurelio (5’8’’). When the team contains only four outfield players over 6 foot we are going to have trouble defending corners and free kicks irrespective of whether we employ zonal or man to man marking.

 

This is constantly overlooked by the media but we will continue to struggle until we address the lack of height within the team. The introduction of Riera (6’1’’) and Aquilani (6’1’’) should help alleviate the problem to some degree but height should definitely be taken into consideration when contemplating any future signings.

 

Ultimately Rafa must shoulder the blame for our persistent shortcomings at set pieces as his transfer dealings and team selections have drastically reduced the aerial ability within the team. Having said all that, I think we can easily rectify the problem and hopefully Rafa will in the near future.

 

This management lark is a piece of piss... :whistle:

 

© Jamie Redknapp

[Guest LFD]

Why are people against changing the manager mid season?

 

Sure it can't work - as Newcastle have shown.

 

But if you get the right man it can - as Hiddink showed last season with Chelsea, doing a great job when he took over.

 

The key is getting the right man. If there is someone available who can do a better job than Rafa - get him. If there isn't stick with Rafa.

 

I personally think Hiddink would get more out of these players than Rafa has. He'd start by improving the set plays, he'd probably drop Lucas, play players in form (sorry Kuyt) and sign another striker for when Torres gets injured. Not rocket science.

[Funkasy]

He saw he kicked he missed

 

Then he got sold

[RedBrian84]

I think our set piece vulnerability is attributable to the loss of Hyppia, Riise, Crouch, Sissoko and Alonso over recent seasons. All of these players were significantly taller than their replacements and this has undoubtedly contributed to our problems.

 

Our team this season regularly includes Mascherano (5’7’’), Lucas (5’8’’), Insua (5’8’’), Carragher (5’10’’), Benayoun (5’8’’) and Aurelio (5’8’’). When the team contains only four outfield players over 6 foot we are going to have trouble defending corners and free kicks irrespective of whether we employ zonal or man to man marking.

 

This is constantly overlooked by the media but we will continue to struggle until we address the lack of height within the team. The introduction of Riera (6’1’’) and Aquilani (6’1’’) should help alleviate the problem to some degree but height should definitely be taken into consideration when contemplating any future signings.

 

Ultimately Rafa must shoulder the blame for our persistent shortcomings at set pieces as his transfer dealings and team selections have drastically reduced the aerial ability within the team. Having said all that, I think we can easily rectify the problem and hopefully Rafa will in the near future.

 

This management lark is a piece of piss... :whistle:

 

 

The word you're looking for is RESPONSIBILITY. Nobody in a red shirt in our own penalty area wants to take responsibilty. Zonal vs Man to Man marking doesn't even come into it when our players will not see the ball coming and think, "right, that's my fucking ball, and nobody here is going to stop me getting to it and getting rid of it"

 

The Adebayor goal was a supreme case in point. That goal wouldn't have mattered if it was zonal or not, because none of our players showed any kind of guts to go and attack it.

 

Martin Skrtel wound me up with his comments after the game, saying that he was "one of about three players" who didn't go for the ball. Fuck the other players- go and fucking get it yourself. Berate your fellow defenders afterwards, for fucks sake.

 

It isn't just against set pieces either, it's everywhere. Like my previous post said, it's very easy to hide behind the manager and the tactical decisions, but when you are playing Debrecen, and one of our players breaks out of the box from an opposing corner, you expect to see red shirts streaming forward to support.

 

Not on Tuesday, oh no. Nobody wanted to stick their necks out and take some fucking responsibilty. Too scared of making a mistake and getting a hiding for it. Well I'm more pissed off with those players than I am with the manager or the owners at this moment in time.

 

The lack of backbone and fight, the lack of courage in the squad is what really, really makes me angry at the minute. I'll always be pissed off with the owners and I'll always hate them and wish them gone- but right at this very minute, noboday out there in a red shirt is standing up and taking responsibility for what goes on on the pitch.

[Unrighteous]

The word you're looking for is RESPONSIBILITY. Nobody in a red shirt in our own penalty area wants to take responsibilty. Zonal vs Man to Man marking doesn't even come into it when our players will not see the ball coming and think, "right, that's my fucking ball, and nobody here is going to stop me getting to it and getting rid of it"

 

The Adebayor goal was a supreme case in point. That goal wouldn't have mattered if it was zonal or not, because none of our players showed any kind of guts to go and attack it.

 

Martin Skrtel wound me up with his comments after the game, saying that he was "one of about three players" who didn't go for the ball. Fuck the other players- go and fucking get it yourself. Berate your fellow defenders afterwards, for fucks sake.

 

It isn't just against set pieces either, it's everywhere. Like my previous post said, it's very easy to hide behind the manager and the tactical decisions, but when you are playing Debrecen, and one of our players breaks out of the box from an opposing corner, you expect to see red shirts streaming forward to support.

 

Not on Tuesday, oh no. Nobody wanted to stick their necks out and take some fucking responsibilty. Too scared of making a mistake and getting a hiding for it. Well I'm more pissed off with those players than I am with the manager or the owners at this moment in time.

 

The lack of backbone and fight, the lack of courage in the squad is what really, really makes me angry at the minute. I'll always be pissed off with the owners and I'll always hate them and wish them gone- but right at this very minute, noboday out there in a red shirt is standing up and taking responsibility for what goes on on the pitch.

 

Good post, and spot on about our players not taking responsibility.

[piscinin]

The word you're looking for is RESPONSIBILITY. Nobody in a red shirt in our own penalty area wants to take responsibilty. Zonal vs Man to Man marking doesn't even come into it when our players will not see the ball coming and think, "right, that's my fucking ball, and nobody here is going to stop me getting to it and getting rid of it"

 

The Adebayor goal was a supreme case in point. That goal wouldn't have mattered if it was zonal or not, because none of our players showed any kind of guts to go and attack it.

 

Martin Skrtel wound me up with his comments after the game, saying that he was "one of about three players" who didn't go for the ball. Fuck the other players- go and fucking get it yourself. Berate your fellow defenders afterwards, for fucks sake.

 

It isn't just against set pieces either, it's everywhere. Like my previous post said, it's very easy to hide behind the manager and the tactical decisions, but when you are playing Debrecen, and one of our players breaks out of the box from an opposing corner, you expect to see red shirts streaming forward to support.

 

Not on Tuesday, oh no. Nobody wanted to stick their necks out and take some fucking responsibilty. Too scared of making a mistake and getting a hiding for it. Well I'm more pissed off with those players than I am with the manager or the owners at this moment in time.

 

The lack of backbone and fight, the lack of courage in the squad is what really, really makes me angry at the minute. I'll always be pissed off with the owners and I'll always hate them and wish them gone- but right at this very minute, noboday out there in a red shirt is standing up and taking responsibility for what goes on on the pitch.

 

That's really quite ironic because at the start of the season Carragher was playing like a lunatic doing all sorts of crazy stuff precisely because he was trying to take responsibility, unfortunately though, for everything. Heading balls (or jaws) that Skrtel had covered, vacating his zone to deal with someone else's and now we have the opposite scenario, no-one taking responsibility. With unfortunately similarly haphazard results.

[Tom R]

Carra isn't six foot one. I'm six foot one and I'm taller than him.

[navbasi]

He saw he kicked he missed

 

Then he got sold

 

X 20

[Funkasy]

X 20

 

indeed. :wallbutt:

[Stu Monty]

I agree with the points that Keane didn't do enough to demand any more time than he got and the point about height but some comments are a bit off target here. He wasn't shit; not being amazing doesn't make you shit. Also it's not really fair to name Aurelio and Insua and then claim them both as a percentage of a starting line-up, as it'll usually be one or the other in the side.

[me1]

antynwa - just out of interest - who the fuck do you think you are?

Are we supposed to give a toss for your sad little outburst.

If you can't handle things - just fuck off.

And take the rest of your bandwagoning post Istanbul acolytes with you.

[Antynwa]

antynwa - just out of interest - who the fuck do you think you are?

Are we supposed to give a toss for your sad little outburst.

If you can't handle things - just fuck off.

And take the rest of your bandwagoning post Istanbul acolytes with you.

 

lol shut up

[isr]

No we weren't.

 

You're right we weren't, wasn't that Thomsons professional foul moment? If memory serves he was found £400 English pounds for that comment. And that's without google help, that's pure fogey power!

 

??

 

I'm sure we were in white (with black shorts?), and Forest in red. Well, I was 7 at the time ...

 

The abiding memory I have of that game is how well Liverpool played, and how unlucky they were to lose (the Forest goalkeeper was great).

 

EDIT: just saw the youtube video posted. Hmm, I wonder if I'm mixing the replay with the first game? What colours did we wear for the first game? (Damn you all, screwing with my childhood memories).

[King Emlyn]

??

 

I'm sure we were in white (with black shorts?), and Forest in red. Well, I was 7 at the time ...

 

The abiding memory I have of that game is how well Liverpool played, and how unlucky they were to lose (the Forest goalkeeper was great).

 

EDIT: just saw the youtube video posted. Hmm, I wonder if I'm mixing the replay with the first game? What colours did we wear for the first game? (Damn you all, screwing with my childhood memories).

Easily done mate, i'm always doing it; you were bang on about us hammering them though, Forest were very lucky that night.

[Stu Monty]

I can't wait for the days when young people ask me about the olden days of football.

 

"Is it true that Djimi Traore played for three seasons with bovine spongiform encephalopathy, grandad?"

 

"Yes son, it is, although nobody knew until he'd retired. Apparently it was the feed they gave him; it was packed with ground up French full-backs, terrible business".

[dennis tooth]

*You must spread it around....yah yah

 

Any word that starts encep and ends in opathy deserves the rep it get's and I'll be serving this notice to St Peter at the Gareth gates of heaven before I bumrush my way in so I can sit in the corner and git low with my blow.

The fact that I can't rep it is an inflaminous injustice good sah!

Dear Dave, OOOh mad one, we see your trap, you can never escape your fate. Submit with honour to a duel with my 1st born. I see you're using an old style, I wondered where you learnt it.