Star Trek - The Shit, or Just Shit?

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

10 out of 10 for Discovery season 4 finale? It was utter shite. In my opinion, of course.

Mine too. The point here is being missed. Lots of people like it. They’re making it for them. I think it’s terrible. 

[dockers_strike]

Just now, Numero Veinticinco said:

Mine too. The point here is being missed. Lots of people like it. They’re making it for them. I think it’s terrible. 

Yeah, they like it because the sci fi is a minimalist back issue to the point of being non existent while inter species relationships and generally current times gender types are the main story lines.

 

[Section_31]

Starting to think I may have been sucker punched with the new stuff.

 

The previews of the next episode of Picard seem to show the plot will revolve around his ancestor, a strong and Independent woman astronaut.

 

The previews of Strange New Worlds seems to show a sizeable chunk of the cast are young, strong, independent women. Few lines along the 'I like science' spirit too.

 

We've been ratted out here boys. Watch it.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Starting to think I may have been sucker punched with the new stuff.

 

The previews of the next episode of Picard seem to show the plot will revolve around his ancestor, a strong and Independent woman astronaut.

 

The previews of Strange New Worlds seems to show a sizeable chunk of the cast are young, strong, independent women. Few lines along the 'I like science' spirit too.

 

We've been ratted out here boys. Watch it.

Repped for the Jack Napier quote 

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Starting to think I may have been sucker punched with the new stuff.

 

The previews of the next episode of Picard seem to show the plot will revolve around his ancestor, a strong and Independent woman astronaut.

 

The previews of Strange New Worlds seems to show a sizeable chunk of the cast are young, strong, independent women. Few lines along the 'I like science' spirit too.

 

We've been ratted out here boys. Watch it.

Have you seen the character introductions for SNW that they've been showing over the last few days? The show looks way more Star Trek-ish than the others new shows, all of which have made a point in departing from the standard format quite heavily. This looks to have an actual crew, not a lead and a few supporting actors nobody knows the name of. They've deliberately left the three main crew (Pike, Spoke, Number One) out of it. 

 

This one is Hemmer, the Aenar (a blind, white subspecies of the Andorians, features alongside the Shran stories in Enterprise). 

 

 

 

This one is La'An, and judging by some of the clips in this teaser, the episodic format is deffo going to be a thing and they're going to have proper stories for the cast. You know, like Star Trek. 

This one is M'Benga. Looks interesting, though I was hoping to see the doctor from The Cage. I guess that'll come later. 

This one is Ortegas. Some of the shots in this look fucking unreal. 

 

[Section_31]

Yeah they're the ones I was referring to. All the birds look the same, asexual, young and hard as nails and incredibe at what they do. Speaks 37 languages, best pilot in Starfleet etc. But of course they would be.

 

It's a Rey fest no doubt.

 

Lt badass reporting for duty. 

 

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Yeah they're the ones I was referring to. All the birds look the same, asexual, young and hard as nails and incredibe at what they do. Speaks 37 languages, best pilot in Starfleet etc. But of course they would be.

 

It's a Rey fest no doubt.

 

Lt badass reporting for duty. 

 

Way to kill my enthusiasm for a show I'll probably never see as it's on P+ and I have no intention of subscribing. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Yeah they're the ones I was referring to. All the birds look the same, asexual, young and hard as nails and incredibe at what they do. Speaks 37 languages, best pilot in Starfleet etc. But of course they would be.

 

It's a Rey fest no doubt.

 

Lt badass reporting for duty. 

 

Uhura was always talented, so no issue from me there. Ortegas does seem to have that vibe, but she also has a bit of the Reno vibe too, and she is one of the few remaining decent things about Disco. They put a nurse Chapel one out too. 
 

 

[Section_31]

Nah Uhura was rewritten as a genius by the Abrams films, she was just a Comms officer.

 

These new writers don't know how to create rounded characters, they just don't.

 

The Enterprise in next gen was the federation flagship yet they weren't an infallible crew.

 

Riker finished eighth in his class, Worf was thick as fuck, Picard had been court martialled for losing his only other command, a 40 year old piece of shit Stargazer. Ensign Ro was an absolute fuckup.

 

The only character back then that was top of the class was Bashir and they all hated him for it in the first season, Kira and O Brien used to bully him.

 

The new dynamic in Trek seems to be generic, asexual, badass super young women solving every problem. Heterosexual men only exist in the shoes to be womansplained to by said women.

 

I was actually thinking about the character of Raffi or whatever her name is, and she seems to have been created - as a black woman - to give shit to Picard, an older white man, at every opportunity. Literally across both series, all she does is give him shit about his 'privelege' and 'arrogance'.

 

It's not very subtle, and not very entertaining, and altogether quite bizarre.

[Pete]

Do any of Gene's offspring have any input in these new shows as whilst usually entertaining they are as far removed from his vision of Trek as could be. I could sit and watch any TOS/TNG/DS9 episode over & over again. These new shows are a one and done.  When was the last time we had an episode like Measure of a Man, The Drum Head, The Inner Light etc?  

It's all flashing lights and whizz bang now. Looks pretty, leaves you wanting more (The McDonalds of Star Trek??).  I know am older now and my likes have changed as I have matured (gotten grumpier as my wife says) but give me a decent story over some pretty lights and flashes.  It's telling that the episode of Picard I most enjoyed was the one with Riker & Troi on their land last season.  

 

[Section_31]

On your first point a definite no, did you never clock the reference in this scene?

 

"My name's Gene"

"I've already forgotten that."

 

With regards you other points, Nerdrotic on YouTube made a good point about Abrams, who Kurtzman worked with, that he 'goes straight to the desert". He does emotional scenes without no buildup, no real groundwork, so they're hollow.

 

 

[Pete]

18 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

On your first point a definite no, did you never clock the reference in this scene?

 

"My name's Gene"

"I've already forgotten that."

 

With regards you other points, Nerdrotic on YouTube made a good point about Abrams, who Kurtzman worked with, that he 'goes straight to the desert". He does emotional scenes without no buildup, no real groundwork, so they're hollow.

 

 

If I did see that scene it's been forgotten already. Which season of Discovery? 

I'll seek out Nerdotic then as it seems like they share the same feelings as I do. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Nerdrotic is a clueless lying cunt who needs putting down. Other than that, too bloke. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

 

Nah Uhura was rewritten as a genius by the Abrams films, she was just a Comms officer.

 

Need to rewatch TOS there buddeh. Absolutely wasn’t just a comms officer. She was already chief comms officer under Kirk, but also took control of the ship, and of other stations. 
 

I agree in part with your overall point but there are plenty of these types of characters beyond just Bashir. The only one of those who really fits the previous description in those teasers is Ortegas. We deffo need to wait to see if they’re rounded. 
 

[Section_31]

8 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Need to rewatch TOS there buddeh. Absolutely wasn’t just a comms officer. She was already chief comms officer under Kirk, but also took control of the ship, and of other stations. 
 

I agree in part with your overall point but there are plenty of these types of characters beyond just Bashir. The only one of those who really fits the previous description in those teasers is Ortegas. We deffo need to wait to see if they’re rounded. 
 

Yeah she was rally good at her job, loved her in Star Trek IV, but she was never pegged as some kind of linguistic genius, none of them were except Spock. Scotty was a great engineer but also 'flawed' to say the least!  

 

 

[Pete]

17 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Nerdrotic is a clueless lying cunt who needs putting down. Other than that, too bloke. 

Most of these types are tho! 

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Yeah she was rally good at her job, loved her in Star Trek IV, but she was never pegged as some kind of linguistic genius, none of them were except Spock. Scotty was a great engineer but also 'flawed' to say the least!  

 

 

You shut your whore mouth, laddie. Scotty was perfect in every way. 
 

I really am looking forward to being disappointed by SNW though. An episodic format might well give these characters space to breathe in a way the serialised ones haven’t. A full 50 minute story that wraps up there and then. Essentially give me longer versions of short Treks. 

[mars]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Yeah they're the ones I was referring to. All the birds look the same, asexual, young and hard as nails and incredibe at what they do. Speaks 37 languages, best pilot in Starfleet etc. But of course they would be.

 

It's a Rey fest no doubt.

 

Lt badass reporting for duty. 

 

I would have thought that La'an Noonien-Singh, given her relative, would be Lt Badass; I'd be disappointed if she wasn't. It's like Lt. B'Elanna Torres never existed.

 

Asexual? Are you sure you don't just mean short hair cut and no heaving cleavage? And wouldn't that be Lieutenant Tasha Yar?

[dockers_strike]

5 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Uhura was always talented, so no issue from me there. Ortegas does seem to have that vibe, but she also has a bit of the Reno vibe too, and she is one of the few remaining decent things about Disco. They put a nurse Chapel one out too. 
 

 

Hmmm, they're messing with canon again! Chapple didnt join the Enterprise until Doctor McCoy became the ship's CMO.

 

Pike's Enterprise's doctors where Dr Boyce seen in The Cage \ Menagerie, who was succeeded by Dr Piper (Where no man has gone before) by the time Kirk assumed command.

 

McCoy doesnt appear until S1 EP3.

5 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Nah Uhura was rewritten as a genius by the Abrams films, she was just a Comms officer.

 

 

 

Nay, Uhura was an electronics and linguistic expert. Cant remember the TOS episode, Spock is left in command and something causes Uhura's console to burn out. She's repairing it and Spock asks how long she's going to take?

 

She explains it's not just a few circuits to which Spock say he can 'think of no one better suited to do the necessary repairs as quickly as possible.'

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

Hmmm, they're messing with canon again! Chapple didnt join the Enterprise until Doctor McCoy became the ship's CMO.

You say Chapel didn't join until then, but all we know is that she did serve under him. We don't know what date SNW covers just yet, though Kirk was Captain from 2265, so it'd have to be the case that she came and went. The Cage was 2254, Discovery was 2255, so we have a roughly 10 year period to play with. It's not inconceivable that she could have been the Nurse at one or more other times. As long as her character is more interesting than Gene's wife's pet project, I'll be happy. 

 

On Uhura, she was some record sprinter too. Top lass. 

[dockers_strike]

2 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

You say Chapel didn't join until then, but all we know is that she did serve under him. We don't know what date SNW covers just yet, though Kirk was Captain from 2265, so it'd have to be the case that she came and went. The Cage was 2254, Discovery was 2255, so we have a roughly 10 year period to play with. It's not inconceivable that she could have been the Nurse at one or more other times. As long as her character is more interesting than Gene's wife's pet project, I'll be happy. 

 

On Uhura, she was some record sprinter too. Top lass. 

Not me who says Chapel didnt join until McCoy came aboard, canon says it.

[Numero Veinticinco]

39 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Not me who says Chapel didnt join until McCoy came aboard, canon says it.

Canon doesn't say anything, what happens and what is said becomes canon. So where is it said that she didn't join until then and not before - which is what you said is the canon? Before responding I checked MA - which is not canon but is a decent wiki - which seems to indicate that she served in Starfleet from 2261, it says she was assigned to the Enterprise, then it states that she served under McCoy on Enterprise from 2266-2270. They work this out from something that is said in the episode 'What Are Little Girls Made Of?' which is set in 2266, so, being the fun guy that I am, I read the script. All I can see that is relevant is that she says she is staying with the ship, indicating she was on it before then. 

 

So, you say that it's canon that she didn't join the Enterprise until 66, so which piece of canon am I missing? I'm not saying you're wrong (though, I suspect you are), I'm just asking you to back it up and educate me.

[Numero Veinticinco]

 

There's a man in it? That big women-hater, Secsh 31, will be pleased. 

[dockers_strike]

1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Canon doesn't say anything, what happens and what is said becomes canon. So where is it said that she didn't join until then and not before - which is what you said is the canon? Before responding I checked MA - which is not canon but is a decent wiki - which seems to indicate that she served in Starfleet from 2261, it says she was assigned to the Enterprise, then it states that she served under McCoy on Enterprise from 2266-2270. They work this out from something that is said in the episode 'What Are Little Girls Made Of?' which is set in 2266, so, being the fun guy that I am, I read the script. All I can see that is relevant is that she says she is staying with the ship, indicating she was on it before then. 

 

So, you say that it's canon that she didn't join the Enterprise until 66, so which piece of canon am I missing? I'm not saying you're wrong (though, I suspect you are), I'm just asking you to back it up and educate me.

According to official Star Trek, canon is 'the events that take place within the episodes and movies.'

 

That's good enough for me that Chapel doesnt join the Enterpise medical staff until McCoy does. Guess well have to disagree again!

[Numero Veinticinco]

8 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

According to official Star Trek, canon is 'the events that take place within the episodes and movies.'

 

That's good enough for me that Chapel doesnt join the Enterpise medical staff until McCoy does. Guess well have to disagree again!

 

Yes, that's what canon is. We can definitely agree on that, because Star Trek say it and it is inline with what I said above. Now, which 'event that takes place within the episodes and movies' makes you say that she doesn't join Enterprise until McCoy does? Not at which point do we first see her, but you said they were messing with canon and that she didn't join until, and that's canon. I'm just asking you to back up your statement, that's all. It's not really something to disagree over, it's either there or it's not. They can't be messing with it if it's unstated.