Should we be playing Gerrard in the Holding Midfield position?

[stringvest]

I look at it in a different way. Our defending isn't that great at the moment, and I think Gerrard is part of the problem especially with our current back 4. I do think Lucas protects the defence better than Gerrard does (and that's not a slight on Gerrard, as he's better than Lucas at pretty much everything else). Against better teams I would play Lucas holding and Gerrard as one of the two in front of him.

 

It doesn't work though.  We've seen it too many times over the last several seasons.    The difference between you and I is that you believe Lucas protects the defence better than Gerrard.  I don't believe that, and I also think we should play Allen and Henderson in the mf against United.  

[aRdja]

It doesn't work though. We've seen it too many times over the last several seasons.

I remember us playing them as double pivots in a 4-2-3-1, but never a 4-3-3. I maybe wrong though. If we improve our defence next season, then I wouldn't play Lucas at all.

[Boss]

I don't. Please share, which player would you play as a defensive midfielder?

 

Gerrard, he's better in every single department. John Terry has scored 34 goals for Chelsea as a central defender, yet Lucas has scored 1 goal in 170 games and provided virtually no assists. A completely pointless player that gets raved about for doing nothing but the bare minimum of what his role dictates. 

[aRdja]

Gerrard, he's better in every single department. John Terry has scored 34 goals for Chelsea as a central defender, yet Lucas has scored 1 goal in 170 games and provided virtually no assists. A completely pointless player that gets raved about for doing nothing but the bare minimum of what his role dictates.

Ah I get it, so we're going to limit our search for this new DM that we 'desperately need' this summer to someone who has scored more and provided more assists than Steven Gerrard?

 

So in the event that Busquets became available, then we really shouldn't go for his, since he's only got one goal to his name and even less assist.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I don't. Please share, which player would you play as a defensive midfielder?

Which player would I prefer as...

 

GK: Gerrard

RB: Gerrard

CB: Gerrard

LB: Gerrard

Lib: Gerrard

 

DM: Gerrard

HM: Gerrard

CM: Gerrard

AM:: Gerrard

RM: Gerrard

LM: Gerrard

 

ST: Gerrard

CF: Gerrard

[Major Tom]

Gerrard, he's better in every single department. John Terry has scored 34 goals for Chelsea as a central defender, yet Lucas has scored 1 goal in 170 games and provided virtually no assists. A completely pointless player that gets raved about for doing nothing but the bare minimum of what his role dictates. 

 

That's Code72ish use of stats, that is. Masch scored 2 in 140 games for us. So what, is he pointless as well? And Terry? What's the point of that comparison? His goals will be largely - nay exclusively - from set plays.

 

You may have a decent argument for Gerrard as a deep-lying midfielder (or whatever the kids are calling it these days) but you didn't show it there.

[aRdja]

Which player would I prefer as...

 

GK: Gerrard

RB: Gerrard

CB: Gerrard

LB: Gerrard

Lib: Gerrard

 

DM: Gerrard

HM: Gerrard

CM: Gerrard

AM:: Gerrard

RM: Gerrard

LM: Gerrard

 

ST: Gerrard

CF: Gerrard

If we had 11 of him, we'd be close to being the best team in the world I would say.

[TheHowieLama]

We are playing by far the best stuff we have for many years.

Gerrard is playing his best as well for at least the last three - and people are still talking about this?

[Major Tom]

Someone's eaten the pudding.

[Boss]

Ah I get it, so we're going to limit our search for this new DM that we 'desperately need' this summer to someone who has scored more and provided more assists than Steven Gerrard? So in the event that Busquets became available, then we really shouldn't go for his, since he's only got one goal to his name and even less assist.

 

Redundant argument because Busquets is a far better player both technically and tactically than Lucas. The argument really lays with Gerrard vs Lucas in that role. For me Lucas offers us nothing, he's slow, he gives fouls away regularly at the edge of our box, he doesn't provide the passing range, the dictation of play or the set pieces / penalty advantages that Gerrard provides.

 

I don't think we need a DM and theres been no indications from the club that they are looking for one, which tells you everything you need to know about how they view Gerrard in that role.

[Pureblood]

Owwwwwwwww my fucking eyes.

[aRdja]

Redundant argument because Busquets is a far better player both technically and tactically than Lucas. The argument really lays with Gerrard vs Lucas in that role. For me Lucas offers us nothing, he's slow, he gives fouls away regularly at the edge of our box, he doesn't provide the passing range, the dictation of play or the set pieces / penalty advantages that Gerrard provides.

 

I don't think we need a DM and theres been no indications from the club that they are looking for one, which tells you everything you need to know about how they view Gerrard in that role.

You could've just said that instead of comparing their goal/assist stats.

[Salte]

Redundant argument because Busquets is a far better player both technically and tactically than Lucas. The argument really lays with Gerrard vs Lucas in that role. For me Lucas offers us nothing, he's slow, he gives fouls away regularly at the edge of our box, he doesn't provide the passing range, the dictation of play or the set pieces / penalty advantages that Gerrard provides.

 

I don't think we need a DM and theres been no indications from the club that they are looking for one, which tells you everything you need to know about how they view Gerrard in that role.

A word of advice son, stick to FM.

[Boss]

Can someone please explain to me without sniping remarks how Lucas offers more than Gerrard? i'm curious to know.

[TheHowieLama]

You ever see Gerrard try to make one of these?

 

[Saintslfc13]

Redundant argument because Busquets is a far better player both technically and tactically than Lucas. The argument really lays with Gerrard vs Lucas in that role. For me Lucas offers us nothing, he's slow, he gives fouls away regularly at the edge of our box, he doesn't provide the passing range, the dictation of play or the set pieces / penalty advantages that Gerrard provides.

 

I don't think we need a DM and theres been no indications from the club that they are looking for one, which tells you everything you need to know about how they view Gerrard in that role.

 

You're bringing up a lot of old myths about Lucas, all of which have been proven incorrect statistically but I suppose you can continue to beat a dead horse. The only thing that has any merit is that he's slow but then again Gerrard isn't exactly pacey now either. Do I think Gerrard should be the DM? No, I'd prefer to see him further forward with less defensive responsibility. Do I think he's capable? Of course, Gerrard is capable of playing any position on the pitch besides keeper, and for all I know he'd be good at that as well I've just never seen him try. 

 

Is Lucas the best DM at the club? In my opinion yes he is. He knows his role and relishes it, and he is capable of both keeping play ticking over and providing the occasional assist (or pass before the assist as the case may be) not to mention his discipline means he's rarely out of position, and he's very good at reading what's going on in front of him. Should we bring competition or a replacement in for him? Of course, especially as if we keep form we'll need the depth for the CL.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Whilst I have some reservations about Gerrard playing so deep, he's vastly superior to Lucas. Why is it even a 'thing'? Nobody could credibly argue that Lucas should be included if Gerrard is willing to do the job he is now. I think Gerrard needs a bit more support in midfield on the days Coutinho isn't giving a great midfield performance or Hendo is slack positionally, but regardless of those things he's so much better at it than Lucas it's not even funny. Lucas rarely ever plays a progressive forward pass.

 

You just have to compare their performances this season to see what one offers over the other (assists, pens, progressive forward passing). I was discussion Lucas on the MF a little whilst back, and somebody chose the Hull game - his most recent 90 minutes - as an example of his forward passing percentage and how I was incorrect to talk about his lack of forward passing as the stats showed a very high percentage of his passes were forward. Technically, yes, that's true. His passes are technically forward from 45 degrees. In reality, this is the difference between Gerrard playing that position and Lucas playing it. One creates and defends, the other is just a bit 'meh'.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYfjOM24L_w

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJvHiNz5JMc

 

Can't find Gerrard vs Everton, but that's worth a rematch.

[king7]

Obviously Gerrard is a better player than Lucas, he´s a better player than most! I´m absolutely delighted that Stevie has proven he can be a top class holding midfielder for us and I want him to continue in that role. But I can´t understand why the Lucas-bashing train has restarted because of this. Lucas has been brilliant for us in that role and we need several players for the same position. 

 

Hate the "I like this player, so that other player is shit" - attitude of some of our "fans". 

[stringvest]

Is Lucas the best DM at the club? In my opinion yes he is. He knows his role and relishes it, and he is capable of both keeping play ticking over and providing the occasional assist (or pass before the assist as the case may be) not to mention his discipline means he's rarely out of position, and he's very good at reading what's going on in front of him. Should we bring competition or a replacement in for him? Of course, especially as if we keep form we'll need the depth for the CL.

He knows his role and he relishes it? What has that got to do with whether he is any good?

In everything else you mention here, Gerrard is convincingly better. How you can suggest that Lucas is better is mind-boggling. I'm not slagging Lucas here, but he has never been brilliant and there really is no argument for him vs Gerrard.

[Dr Nowt]

The thread is about whether Gerrard should be playing the holding midfield position, which Lucas has held in recent years.  The comparison is likely to be made in such a discussion, as it has by people who would prefer Lucas in that role. 

 

Unfortunately for the latter, who seems a great bloke, a brilliant professional and has more than had his moments particularly pre-injury of being a good player for us, he is being compared to a living legend in this instance.  Standards are high here, this is Liverpool Football Club. 

 

Personally I think he is currently more than adequate back-up for Stevie, but I would pick the Captain first every time.  My own view has shifted on this, I wasn't one of the forward thinking group who saw him in that role, a year ago I was adamant Stevie should remain further forward where he could do more damage as he is still comfortably one of the best few finishers at the club. 

 

Having seen them both play DM with others in front of them this season, I've come to the opinion Lucas and Gerrard together is more the problem, and with two others who can press in front it can work with either behind them.  At present, and also in terms of things which transcend a specific position such as influence on other players through their actions, importance to the club, affect from set pieces and goal threat, ability to rise to big games etc, Gerrard gets the nod for me.

[stringvest]

Yes. If Henderson or Allen get injured, play Lucas as their replacement until we bolster the MF.

[Barnesey]

A pointless argument in my view but I'll have my twopenneth anyway.

 

No doubt who the better player is but Luko is better at defensive headers, particularly from long balls.

 

And if we remember the Villa game, Benteke was holding the ball up unchallenged until Luko came on when our man kept stepping in on his touch and negated their best weapon. if he'd stayed on we'd have won that game.

 

Lucas will never offer as much as Stevie G but he's a very valuable member of the squad.

[stringvest]

A better header of the ball than Gerrard?  well, everyone's entitled to an opinion.  

 

What I'm happy with is Gerrard is really bang up for every game these days - you can see it in every tackle, every ball - the way he chases back at pace.  Fantastic to see he has real belief that this season could be the one.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

A better header of the ball than Gerrard? well, everyone's entitled to an opinion.

 

What I'm happy with is Gerrard is really bang up for every game these days - you can see it in every tackle, every ball - the way he chases back at pace. Fantastic to see he has real belief that this season could be the one.

Perhaps there's something missing in your analysis of Lucas? Or maybe you've actually watched him play.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I don't think it's a straight Gerrard or Lucas scenario; the roles have changed even though they occupy similar areas on the pitch. It's equally about how the rest of the midfield have been performing.

 

The away game to Spurs seemed to awaken something in those players who'd previously offered energy and attacking intent, but little hardened nous. Had they wilted, the onus still would have been on Gerrard. The fact that they didn't and have continued to progress has freed him up.

 

It's no great shock that as Coutinho, Allen and most importantly Henderson have raised their all round game the focus has shifted from who excels in a specialist role to which players complement one another.