Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[magicrat]

I couldn't agree less.  When people stop calling him a racist, he should stop proclaiming the truth about it.  Until then...

Firstly let me say from following events at the time I think Suarez was done up like a kipper.

He shouldn't have been sledging Evra in the way he did but after Evra complained about it and the wheels were in motion and the whole thing was stitch up by Utd and the FA. No way was Evra going to ever going to retract.

People that follow football closely and Liverpool especially know or suspect this. The rest either don't care or its faded from memory, I am not saying Suarez should not be able to defend himself just that he should refuse to discuss the Evra incident. Christ we are in the  mix for the first time in years at the top of league, Suarez has had a brilliant season and done his talking on pitch and frankly I care more about the success of the club than getting embroiled in another media frenzy over this and if Suarez feels aggrieved then there are 200,000 reason every week why he can swallow his pride for the sake of the hand that feeds him   

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Firstly let me say from following events at the time I think Suarez was done up like a kipper.

He shouldn't have been sledging Evra in the way he did but after Evra complained about it and the wheels were in motion and the whole thing was stitch up by Utd and the FA. No way was Evra going to ever going to retract.

 

The subject came up because he was talking about how he regrets the bad things he's done - the biting - and how he's grown up and cut it out.  So what's he supposed to do about the Evra allegations?  Not mention them, as if they never happened?  Apologise, as if he's guitly?  Or be honest about it?

 

The trouble with Evra's lies is - like all lies - if they get repeated enough people begin to believe them (or, at least, think that "there's no smoke without fire").  Look how easily it happens - you're talking about Suarez "sledging" Evra?  What the fuck does that mean?  What did Suarez say to Evra - in real life - that was worse than what Evra said to him?

[magicrat]

The subject came up because he was talking about how he regrets the bad things he's done - the biting - and how he's grown up and cut it out.  So what's he supposed to do about the Evra allegations?  Not mention them, as if they never happened?  Apologise, as if he's guitly?  Or be honest about it?

 

The trouble with Evra's lies is - like all lies - if they get repeated enough people begin to believe them (or, at least, think that "there's no smoke without fire").  Look how easily it happens - you're talking about Suarez "sledging" Evra?  What the fuck does that mean?  What did Suarez say to Evra - in real life - that was worse than what Evra said to him?

Probably nothing other than trying to wind him up in the heat of very emotionally charged game . I think he probably did say something  that Evra took offence to and the pussy made a complaint .All the lies followed and rather than man up and retract the thing snowballed . Daresay Slur fanned the flames as well.

I do believe he can defend himself without raking over the details of the Evra thing. I don't agree with you about the lies thing repeated make it worse. I think what people see now is a brilliant footballer scoring stunning goals and his arms round Sterling and Sturridge every week. Those pictures have a subliminal message and will say much more than protestations of innocence over Evra will ever do. I hope he dos try and set the record straight in future but on his own time.    

[Pureblood]

 

 

This is why Suarez should not shut up until his name is cleared.

 

I respect your view but I don't think Suarez will change anybody's mind by talking about it.  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I respect your view but I don't think Suarez will change anybody's mind by talking about it.  

And by not talking about it?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Probably nothing other than trying to wind him up in the heat of very emotionally charged game . I think he probably did say something  that Evra took offence to and the pussy made a complaint .All the lies followed and rather than man up and retract the thing snowballed . Daresay Slur fanned the flames as well.

I do believe he can defend himself without raking over the details of the Evra thing. I don't agree with you about the lies thing repeated make it worse. I think what people see now is a brilliant footballer scoring stunning goals and his arms round Sterling and Sturridge every week. Those pictures have a subliminal message and will say much more than protestations of innocence over Evra will ever do. I hope he dos try and set the record straight in future but on his own time.    

Funny thing is, in the FA report, Evra admits that he heard Suarez use the Spanish word "negro" (which he subsequently accepted is not in itself insulting or racist - although it can be used that way) and that he mistakenly thought it was equivalent to the French word "negre", which genuinely is insulting and racist.  I honestly think he thought he had been racially abused, he lost his shit and when he (quite rightly) reported it, couldn't help blowing it up into something it wasn't (ie saying Suarez used the word 10 times; saying Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks" etc) because he's instinctively a snidey lying cunt.  He told his team mates this blown-up tale, they got him to tell Slur, Slur got him to tell the referee and from then on he's in too deep to come clean (because he's a shithouse).

[magicrat]

Funny thing is, in the FA report, Evra admits that he heard Suarez use the Spanish word "negro" (which he subsequently accepted is not in itself insulting or racist - although it can be used that way) and that he mistakenly thought it was equivalent to the French word "negre", which genuinely is insulting and racist.  I honestly think he thought he had been racially abused, he lost his shit and when he (quite rightly) reported it, couldn't help blowing it up into something it wasn't (ie saying Suarez used the word 10 times; saying Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks" etc) because he's instinctively a snidey lying cunt.  He told his team mates this blown-up tale, they got him to tell Slur, Slur got him to tell the referee and from then on he's in too deep to come clean (because he's a shithouse).

I am not arguing what you say isn't a reasonable approximation of what happened. Personally I don't want to see the club embroiled in another battle over it. Much as I admire Luis as a footballer ,and I don't think for a moment he's a racist, we are after all talking about a guy that spent most of last summer agitating for a move to Real Madrid and at one point was prepared to play for one of main rivals in the PL . Unless the club is prepared to re-open this matter ( which I can't imagine they are ) then Suarez should respect their wishes .I am not defending the slimy lying turd Evra is any way shape or form but Suarez can't expect the same solidarity from the club or the fans this time around after he treated both with such indifference just 6 months ago 

[Trumo]

Among the many discrepancies in the report, one of those which I found baffling is the supposed evidence provided by the LFC employee (I think it was the stadium manager or kit man or somebody) which was used to determine the number of times Suarez said the word 'negro'. The LFC employee said that he'd overheard Whiskeynose saying that Suarez had used the word 5 times. Whiskeynose (for whatever reason) wasn't asked to give evidence at the hearing and his signed statement was deemed sufficient. But his signed statement made no mention of the number of times Suarez was supposed to have used that word. So basically the FA panel went by some unprovable hearsay from an LFC employee, used it as evidence against Suarez, added a few more repeated uses of the word with some more unprovable 'evidence' and then presented it as fact, thus coming to the conclusion that they did.

 

That's not the only lack of logic about the whole thing.

[magicrat]

Among the many discrepancies in the report, one of those which I found baffling is the supposed evidence provided by the LFC employee (I think it was the stadium manager or kit man or somebody) which was used to determine the number of times Suarez said the word 'negro'. The LFC employee said that he'd overheard Whiskeynose saying that Suarez had used the word 5 times. Whiskeynose (for whatever reason) wasn't asked to give evidence at the hearing and his signed statement was deemed sufficient. But his signed statement made no mention of the number of times Suarez was supposed to have used that word. So basically the FA panel went by some unprovable hearsay from an LFC employee, used it as evidence against Suarez, added a few more repeated uses of the word with some more unprovable 'evidence' and then presented it as fact, thus coming to the conclusion that they did.

 

That's not the only lack of logic about the whole thing.

It's pretty obvious the conclusion was written first. 

Bit like most FA enquires in fact .

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Sadly, the onus appeared to be on us to prove him innocent, and we cocked it up. Our reaction to the possibility that this might escalate, and our defence afterwards was pretty shit.

 

The FA wanted someone to tar and feather and we left the door open.

[Newport]

Luis is spot on and that bollocks was a major attack on his integrity. Of course he won't let it just slip away.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Sadly, the onus appeared to be on us to prove him innocent, and we cocked it up. Our reaction to the possibility that this might escalate, and our defence afterwards was pretty shit.

 

The FA wanted someone to tar and feather and we left the door open.

Exactamundo!  Presumed guilty from Day One.  The fact that the FA didn't have a shadow of a case against him turned out to be immaterial.

[xerxes]

The standard for Crown Courts is "proof beyond reasonable doubt": Terry just about made the cut for that.  The standard for the FA is "balance of probabilities": the footage of Terry saying "fucking black cunt" to Ferdinand carried some sway in that argument.

 

The case of Suarez was completely different: read the FA panel's report into the reasons for their decision.  They called Suarez guilty on seven counts: five were the utterly unsubstantiated, implausible and inconsistent claims of a known liar; one was Suarez addressing Evra as "negro", which the two Spanish language experts brought in by the FA agreed was neither insulting nor racist in the context in which it was used; the seventh one was a bit of shit which the FA made up, which was not claimed by either player or supported by any witnesses or evidence.

 

This is why Suarez should not shut up until his name is cleared.

In retrospect things look clearer now.

 

Firstly, the only thing he was found guilty of, using a word referencing colour, he admitted to, and KK and Comolli (un) helpfully verified it.

 

Is it likely that Suarez and Evra , in a grudge match against our fiercest enemies, were being polite in their exchanges? No. Would we want or expect them to? No. The cod expertise on international semantics became embarrassing.

 

As a club we cocked it up off the field from start to finish. It should never have got further than a mutual apology, in the Boardroom, after the game, Evra’s insults were hardly less offensive. By far the most embarrassing administrative debacle in our entire history?

 

Was Luis being racist, is he a racist? No. And that is what he rightly baulks at.

[Trumo]

It should never have got further than a mutual apology, in the Boardroom, after the game, Evra’s insults were hardly less offensive. By far the most embarrassing administrative debacle in our entire history?

 

 

I've no doubt that both the Liverpool side (and even the Man Utd side to a lesser extent) were caught cold by the allegations, largely because I've long suspected that Evra spoke to the Canal+ journalist first, made all his wild allegations without clearly thinking through any repercussions, and only later did he speak to his manager and make the claims official via the referee when they realised he had to back up his earlier - highly extravagant - claims. They were able to get their story in order before anyone from the Liverpool side was even aware there was a problem.

 

If when it happened it was really as bad as Evra claimed it was, then why did Marriner not deem it serious enough to deal with the matter there and then on the pitch? The seriousness with which the issue was treated and dealt with from the moment it came to light would suggest that Marriner could not brush it off as something trivial at the time it happened right? Also, why would Man Utd have let Evra run his mouth off to the media AFTER he'd made an official complaint? They'd have told him to keep his mouth shut so that there is only one version of events - the one in the referee's report.

 

No. I think Evra fucked up and then had the Man Utd manager and officials scrambling to cover his and their arses. They then got additional help from the FA to get his story together and still managed to fuck it up, only for all of that to be conveniently ignored thanks in part to the FA's own agenda against FIFA with regards to the issue of tackling racism, and thanks in part to the muddled manner in which Liverpool went about handling their side of the equation.

[xerxes]

I've no doubt that both the Liverpool side (and even the Man Utd side to a lesser extent) were caught cold by the allegations....

 

A good post in full, with an insightful take.

 

I agree that this careered way out of hand. But I also think that our inexperience at Board level was a major factor in that escalation.

[Kevin D]

Love this.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/13/iverpool-luis-suarez-race-row-patrice-evra-all-false

 

Luis Suárez has risked reopening his race row with Manchester United defender Patrice Evra by claiming he has no regrets over the incident which he described as "all false".

 

The Liverpool striker was banned for eight games after being found guilty of racially abusing the Frenchman in 2011. However, Suárez says the only mistakes he regrets in his career involved twice biting an opponent. He told Sport890 AM: "Let me tell you, I've made only two mistakes in my career. My first was when I was playing for Ajax and I bit an opponent. My second was when I bit [branislav] Ivanovic [against Chelsea].

 

"The case with Evra was all false. I was accused without proof. But that's in the past. I was sad at that moment, but I'm happy today. I have grown up. I have thought more about things before doing them.

 

"Now people in England can't talk about me because I'm not doing anything wrong. They have to talk about me only as a footballer. I said I'm sorry [after the Ivanovic bite] and that was all, end of story. I've nothing else to regret. All the other things were like a movie that people in England believed in."

 

Suárez also admitted to fears over his fitness as he prepares to play for Uruguay at this summer's World Cup. "The truth is that I am scared of what happened to [Radamel] Falcao and [Theo] Walcott," he said, referring to the serious injuries picked up by the Monaco and Arsenal forwards.

 

"But you live in the present and you always give your best for your club - you can't be thinking about that all the time. It is a unique opportunity and we all want to be there but I prefer to focus my mind on the English league. The moment to think about the national team will arrive later."

 

 

and and why the fuck should he let it go? I wouldn't. Repairing his reputation then bringing up again is smart. About playing the game unfortunately.

Only two mistakes? What about coming off the bench against Mansfield with diabolical intent?

[KMD7]

A good post in full, with an insightful take.

 

I agree that this careered way out of hand. But I also think that our inexperience at Board level was a major factor in that escalation.

Come on xerxes, we all know you're itching to mention ian ayre!

[xerxes]

Come on xerxes, we all know you're itching to mention ian ayre!

It's been difficult...

[KMD7]

It's been difficult...

Your reticence has done you credit sir

[magicrat]

A good post in full, with an insightful take.

 

I agree that this careered way out of hand. But I also think that our inexperience at Board level was a major factor in that escalation.

Yes it was good post and I think we now know or can pretty much work out how the situation arose and with hindsight see how it was so badly mishandled by the Liverpool management.

Even with all that I still don't particularly want it all picked over again in the tabloid press and I doubt the club do either. This year has been refreshing for the reason its been about events on not off the pitch dominating the agenda ,and  of course Taggart has fucked off. 

[Pureblood]

And by not talking about it?

 

It's just my opinion.  By not talking about it people talk more about his brilliant football, less about whether or not he's racist.  I think he is more accepted by fans of other clubs now out of respect for his talent.  There will always be ignorant idiots who draw their own conclusions and dickheads in the press wanting a story.  Don't give them the satisfaction.

 

As I say I don't have a problem with you thinking he should be vocal about it and try to put the record straight, I just don't think it will have the desired effect.  

[magicrat]

It's just my opinion.  By not talking about it people talk more about his brilliant football, less about whether or not he's racist.  I think he is more accepted by fans of other clubs now out of respect for his talent.  There will always be ignorant idiots who draw their own conclusions and dickheads in the press wanting a story.  Don't give them the satisfaction.

 

As I say I don't have a problem with you thinking he should be vocal about it and try to put the record straight, I just don't think it will have the desired effect.  

Exactly. The subliminal message of him being a fantastic player scoring great goals and celebrating with Sterling and Sturridge says a million times more than protestations of innocence over Evra 

[Anubis]

Given that on other teams' forums he's referred to almost universally as a 'racist cannibal', and that opposition fans still sing 'you know what you are' at him, it's clear the hate's never gone away accept in mainstream media, and none of them seem to give a fuck now they're free of Ferguson's insidious incluence.

 

As such, if he's asked about it he should state his mind - as any of us would if we felt we were innocent.

[Pureblood]

I don't spend enough time on other teams' forums to know about that.  Personally I don't think people hate him as much as they used to.  I'm sure if he was playing for them they'd get over it.  A bit like Bellers, everyone hated him until he was playing for their team.  But deep down there is a grudging respect for his talent.  

[xerxes]

Even with all that I still don't particularly want it all picked over again in the tabloid press and I doubt the club do either. This year has been refreshing for the reason its been about events on not off the pitch dominating the agenda ,and  of course Taggart has fucked off.

I agree. Credit to Brendan, the playing staf, and the management, for delivering that too.