Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[Antynwa]

It's unwise to pre judge the outcome of the report.

 

I for one hope one way or another it has some definitive facts. I see someone else has spoken out against the T Shirts in the Mirror as well.

[Gym Beglin]

Stop reading the fucking Mirror?

 

Dunno, just a suggestion like.

[caracaracara]

Let the facts speak for themselves......

 

My guess is that the club have put the FA on the back foot with their statement and that has added to the time delay in producing the report.

[dave u]

Re the failing to control our players charge.

 

Just read that Independent article that says we admitted the charge but disputed the fine?? It was 20k, if you admit the charge what kind of fine are you expecting??? It's not a fucking parking ticket for Christ's sake. 20k seems pretty low to me, and even if it isn't it's still ONLY 20k, in other words 1/5 of what we were paying Milan Jovanovic each week.

 

If that's true I'm baffled as to what we were thinking.

[Antynwa]

Re the failing to control our players charge.

 

Just read that Independent article that says we admitted the charge but disputed the fine?? It was 20k, if you admit the charge what kind of fine are you expecting??? It's not a fucking parking ticket for Christ's sake. 20k seems pretty low to me, and even if it isn't it's still ONLY 20k, in other words 1/5 of what we were paying Milan Jovanovic each week.

 

If that's true I'm baffled as to what we were thinking.

 

I was thinking that.

[Guest TK-421]

Maybe we wanted to be a ballache and create more work for them.

[piscinin]

Re the failing to control our players charge.

 

Just read that Independent article that says we admitted the charge but disputed the fine?? It was 20k, if you admit the charge what kind of fine are you expecting??? It's not a fucking parking ticket for Christ's sake. 20k seems pretty low to me, and even if it isn't it's still ONLY 20k, in other words 1/5 of what we were paying Milan Jovanovic each week.

 

If that's true I'm baffled as to what we were thinking.

 

Forcing the appeals committee to meet over the christmas period just to fuck with them no doubt.

[zigackly]

Let the facts speak for themselves......

 

My guess is that the club have put the FA on the back foot with their statement and that has added to the time delay in producing the report.

 

The report was never intended to be out until mid January as far as I know. That's how the FA roll.

[LFC64]

Maybe we wanted to be a ballache and create more work for them.

 

Caught me out with 'ballache' there for a moment. I was thinking 'sounds french but never heard of it!'.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Why is there still so much mystery surrounding what Suarez is alleged to have said ? The club wasted no time in releasing a statement supporting Suarez, and then backed him up again with the T- shirts. Why not come out and just let everyone know exactly what he said to Evra. Also, in what language and try to explain the context it was said in, instead of allowing rumours to spread ?

 

If the club are so sure there's been an injustice, then why wait on the findings to be released ? Everyone seems to be up in arms at the way the process has been handled and the way Suarez has been hung out to dry by the media while waiting . If the club are so convinced in the innocence of Suarez then why not give us his Suarez's of the story ?

[RedPaul]

A 50 page report written by an expert QC, worded in such a way as to ensure there is very little or any room for the club and player to appeal and argue against the written reasons why the decision was made. I am sure it will make it very clear that they are not labelling him a racist, even though he has been widely labelled one as such by the media and public as a result of their ban and how it has been interpreted. They will legally cover their arses.

 

One thing intrigues me. Luis has been found guilty on two counts. Firstly for using abusive language. SO he obviously said, and admitted to, as there is no video evidence that we have been made aware of, saying something abusive in the game. All football players make abusive comments, and although there are fa rules outlawing such behaviour, they have decided to make an example of Luis in this case, for some reason. So for me the 'por que negro/negrito?' isn't the phrase he has been disciplined for as this is not abusive language.

 

The second part of the ban was for referring to Evra's colour/ethnicity (in that abusive context?). So according to strict fa rules it is clear how they can easily stitch him up and trust me, the expert QC will do so, such that he is "bang to rights". He has admitted to using a Spanish word that refers to Evra's colour and that is all the fa need to stitch him up good and proper on this second charge. I have been involved with QCs through previous work and they are expertly clever at phrasing legal argument in such a way as to point blame somewhere even where there is none. It's a game and I have absolutely no doubt that this QC will be writing a well worded document wholly supporting the fa's case using strict interpretation of the rules.

 

Throughout this whole process it has been clear to me, and many others on here, that the fa were determined to make an example out of Luis. It's very convenient to choose a foreigner to be labeled as racist indirectly, even if he is not, and I expect they are going to use wording that, whilst stipulating they do not think Luis is racist, will paint him as a racist abuser on the pitch. They can do this easily with the rules they are using.

 

What will be interesting for me is how the fa have dealt with the linguistic nuances of the case, for they have to make detailed reference to these for it to be in any way fair, and how they have dealt with both Evra's "at least 10 times" accusation and the order of events which led to the charge...who reported what to whom first and whether Canal+ were the first to know. Also was the abuse reported to the referee during the game and if not why not? Also did Evra accuse the referee of only booking him because he was a black player? If so what are the conclusions drawn from this. And finally, if Evra has admitted to using abusive language which refers directly or indirectly to Luis' ethnicity what will be done about this? I suspect I know the answers to most of these questions already.

 

I do expect the QC will address all of these points in his written report and it will be interesting to see the reasons and conclusions given. It is a thorough stitch up from my point of view, but I am also very worried that there will be very little room for us to manoeuvre in following publication of it. In my opinion, it is disgusting how this case has been handled by the fa from the start and this unacceptable delay to publish a report on such a serious accusation against a human being, even though they have branded him guilty, is beyond the pale.

[piscinin]

Agree Paul. But baring the application of some massive political clout, which we shamefully do not possess, it was ever going to be thus.

 

All we can do now is paint the picture of the FA that the rest of the world is already all too familiar with. Ignorant, arrogant and completely lacking in self-awareness.

[Antynwa]

Why is there still so much mystery surrounding what Suarez is alleged to have said ? The club wasted no time in releasing a statement supporting Suarez' date=' and then backed him up again with the T- shirts. Why not come out and just let everyone know exactly what he said to Evra. Also, in what language and try to explain the context it was said in, instead of allowing rumours to spread ?

 

If the club are so sure there's been an injustice, then why wait on the findings to be released ? Everyone seems to be up in arms at the way the process has been handled and the way Suarez has been hung out to dry by the media while waiting . If the club are so convinced in the innocence of Suarez then why not give us his Suarez's of the story ?[/quote']

 

That's a fair point. I suppose they're trying to go by the book. Whatever the book is in the FA.

[LFC64]

Really? They watched John Barnes be abused by England fans and did nothing.

 

Pearce v Ince; Ferguson v Boa Morte; Emre v Yobo; Schmeical v Wright were all brushed under the carpet.

 

 

With regard to the Ferguson Boa Morte affair and in view of the furore coming from across the Park directed at Suarez and Liverpool and their empathy with Evra you'd be forgiven for thinking Everton fans would have been equally sypathetic toward Boa Morte...

 

Duncan has pleaded guilty to the charges of violent conduct and improper behaviour after his sending off against Leicester. He has asked for a personal hearing which should be sometime next month.

 

Better news for Duncan is he has been cleared of any wrong doing over the Boa Morte shite. Souldn't Boa Morte be now charged by The FA for being a fuckin liar and a gobshite.

 

FA spokesman said:" “The FA can announce that it found insufficient evidence to charge Mr Ferguson, following allegations of racial abuse by Fulham player Luis Boa-Morte.”(30/03/04)

(from Blue Kipper)

[Dougie Do'ins]

That's a fair point. I suppose they're trying to go by the book. Whatever the book is in the FA.

To late for going by the book Ant. We've as good as thrown the book back at them.

[LFC64]

Interesting to read a few excerpts from similar cases handled by the FA over recent years like the Ferguson Boa Morte affair case which was thrown out due to lack of evidence;

 

Fulham have made a formal complaint to the Football Association about racist abuse allegedly aimed at Luis Boa Morte by Duncan Ferguson. In a document faxed to Soho Square, the club named at least one Everton player who they believe heard the alleged comments and listed at least one member of their own squad as backing Boa Morte's claims.

 

The FA is unimpressed that Boa Morte went to the press with his allegations rather than pursue the matter through the disciplinary channels. He has also been criticised by his manager Chris Coleman.

[Guest San Don]

The 'judgement' will be out very soon. Allegedly. The club will also be given the 'judgement' before it is publically published. Allegedly.

 

The fa were 'surprised' at us appealling the 20k fine since this was agreed as the standard amount by PL clubs before the season began. Allegedly.

[Guest TK-421]

On Sky they'll give it some fancy over-the-top headline attracting name just to get hits, like "Judgment Day".

[norwichlfc]

That is your opinion fella. A number of clubs would probably feel they ended up worse off.

 

The Heysel disaster was a blessing for UEFA at the time. The banned English clubs from the tournament because of the hooligan problems that followed English clubs everywhere.

 

Now change the clubs to two Italian clubs, would there have been bannings? No i do not think so, it was a way to get the English clubs out of the cups for a while.

 

( I am in no way belittling the lives of those lost in the disaster, just airing my views on UEFA)

[TheDrowningMan]

On Sky they'll give it some fancy over-the-top headline attracting name just to get hits, like "Judgment Day".

 

A snippet of Terminator music, too.

[dlfc]

A 50 page report written by an expert QC, worded in such a way as to ensure there is very little or any room for the club and player to appeal and argue against the written reasons why the decision was made. I am sure it will make it very clear that they are not labelling him a racist, even though he has been widely labelled one as such by the media and public as a result of their ban and how it has been interpreted. They will legally cover their arses.

 

One thing intrigues me. Luis has been found guilty on two counts. Firstly for using abusive language. SO he obviously said, and admitted to, as there is no video evidence that we have been made aware of, saying something abusive in the game. All football players make abusive comments, and although there are fa rules outlawing such behaviour, they have decided to make an example of Luis in this case, for some reason. So for me the 'por que negro/negrito?' isn't the phrase he has been disciplined for as this is not abusive language.

 

The second part of the ban was for referring to Evra's colour/ethnicity (in that abusive context?). So according to strict fa rules it is clear how they can easily stitch him up and trust me, the expert QC will do so, such that he is "bang to rights". He has admitted to using a Spanish word that refers to Evra's colour and that is all the fa need to stitch him up good and proper on this second charge. I have been involved with QCs through previous work and they are expertly clever at phrasing legal argument in such a way as to point blame somewhere even where there is none. It's a game and I have absolutely no doubt that this QC will be writing a well worded document wholly supporting the fa's case using strict interpretation of the rules.

 

Throughout this whole process it has been clear to me, and many others on here, that the fa were determined to make an example out of Luis. It's very convenient to choose a foreigner to be labeled as racist indirectly, even if he is not, and I expect they are going to use wording that, whilst stipulating they do not think Luis is racist, will paint him as a racist abuser on the pitch. They can do this easily with the rules they are using.

 

What will be interesting for me is how the fa have dealt with the linguistic nuances of the case, for they have to make detailed reference to these for it to be in any way fair, and how they have dealt with both Evra's "at least 10 times" accusation and the order of events which led to the charge...who reported what to whom first and whether Canal+ were the first to know. Also was the abuse reported to the referee during the game and if not why not? Also did Evra accuse the referee of only booking him because he was a black player? If so what are the conclusions drawn from this. And finally, if Evra has admitted to using abusive language which refers directly or indirectly to Luis' ethnicity what will be done about this? I suspect I know the answers to most of these questions already.

 

I do expect the QC will address all of these points in his written report and it will be interesting to see the reasons and conclusions given. It is a thorough stitch up from my point of view, but I am also very worried that there will be very little room for us to manoeuvre in following publication of it. In my opinion, it is disgusting how this case has been handled by the fa from the start and this unacceptable delay to publish a report on such a serious accusation against a human being, even though they have branded him guilty, is beyond the pale.

 

A sensible post sir!

 

Paul has it right in that the document will be worded such that it will be difficult for the Liverpool lawyers to find a way around it. I expect it'll boil down to Luis not being a racist but using language which was considered racist given the fact that Evra wasn't South American and wasn't aware of the "non-racist" term used. How that justifies an 8 match ban rather than a warning and clarification of what constitutes racist language in this country I don't know.

 

The strength of Liverpool's response and the specific allegations must have worried the FA enough to take so long over producing this report and making it the most detailed ever, according the The Independent.

 

Maybe they're running scared that making an "example" of Suarez has not worked out quite the way they expected.

 

There is of course, the awful possibility that Luis knew exactly what he was saying and that's what he told the inquiry, in which case there's little space for argument. If that were the case though surely the FA wouldn't need a 50 page document to justify the decision as it'd be cut and dried and explained on a page of A4.

 

Just call him a cunt next time Luis and save us all this grief.

[xerxes]

A 50 page report written by an expert QC, worded in such a way as to ensure there is very little or any room for the club and player to appeal..........................etc

 

 

 

I agree with the first half of your post, but think that you go off the deep end in the second half.

 

I agree that Goulding’s judgement, combined with the obligation on member clubs to be bound by the findings of the Tribunal are likely to be tight.

 

I disagree that Suarez was a pre-meditated target for the FA. The case had little profile because so little information was in the public domain. This case has gone wrong because of the delay between verdict and judgement. The John Terry case is the big one and will soon overtake Luis’ as soon as it gets going.

 

In advance of the adjudication we are all guessing, but I think the odds are on the Club being found to have handled this poorly, and it may well suit us for the detail to be lost in the forthcoming Terry Media Firestorm.

[MacDeGoal]

Negrito | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

Sorry if posted before.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

I agree with the first half of your post, but think that you go off the deep end in the second half.

 

I agree that Goulding’s judgement, combined with the obligation on member clubs to be bound by the findings of the Tribunal are likely to be tight.

 

I disagree that Suarez was a pre-meditated target for the FA. The case had little profile because so little information was in the public domain. This case has gone wrong because of the delay between verdict and judgement. The John Terry case is the big one and will soon overtake Luis’ as soon as it gets going.

 

In advance of the adjudication we are all guessing, but I think the odds are on the Club being found to have handled this poorly, and it may well suit us for the detail to be lost in the forthcoming Terry Media Firestorm.

 

So all the delay with the outcome wasnt because they were waiting to hear if Mongo was going to be charged first then?

 

I was blatant from the start they were going to make a example of luis and wait to see if Terry was going ot be charged.

 

If Mongo wasn t going to be charged Luis wouldnt of either,its no coincidence they held on till they new about Mongo(they wouldo f known about his case the day before announcement).

 

Less than 24 hours before decision announced smells like this being the case.

 

They were so proud of the no racism in the premiership,but as soon as they knew the ex captain of England was t ob e charged ,they release the Luis charge the day before.

[Newport]

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