Israel president Shimon Peres accuses Britain of pro-Arab bias

[Jairzinho]

The West Bank and Gaza serve two completely different purposes for Israel. Its ludicrous to assume that without Hamas they'd be exactly the same.

[Stu Monty]

He knows that.

 

Obviously.

[Jairzinho]

I agree. Its why I am often startled by your patience.

[Strontium]

So are you claiming that the Palestinians are bulldozing their own homes and pulling themselves off the street to be beaten and tortured? What difference does the word you choose use make to the situation? I think if you have control the walled-in territory utterly, to the level of the calories being available to the population, then it's not really misleading to suggest they are occupied. And more to the point the word makes no difference the the quality of life that is being discussed.

 

Whether Israel or Hamas has control over Gaza is very much the pertinent question given you were asked if life would be better without the Israeli occupation, a question which also stands for the West Bank.

 

Nobody asked you if you thought life might be mildly less intolerable if Hamas were not there but they were still under occupation, they asked you if you thought there would be more quality of life if the Israeli's took their boots off their throats (again a question you can answer for the West Bank if you so wish).

 

So, again, a very simple question, under Hamas:

 

Do you accept it would almost certainly be a better life than they are currently experiencing with Israel's illegally BLOCKADING boot on their throats?

 

Words make a big difference. One is factually accurate, the other isn't.

 

So okay, you've altered the question to more accurately reflect the facts at least.

 

Would life in Gaza or the West Bank be better if Israel weren't occupying/blockading/taking other measures?

 

I presume it probably would, for most people at least, with the proviso that I don't think life under Islamists would be much fun either way.

 

My preference would be for a democratic Palestine, which is obviously not possible under Hamas.

 

I'm not really sure about the purpose of the question though.

[Spy Bee]

My preference would be for a democratic Palestine, which is obviously not possible under Hamas.

Weren't Hamas democratically elected?

[torahboy]

Weren't Hamas democratically elected?

 

 

They certainly were. But that was the sort of 'democracy' that Israel and the USA didn't like.

[Strontium]

Weren't Hamas democratically elected?

 

So were the Nazis.

 

Would you say Palestine was currently a democracy or that Hamas are democrats?

[Anubis]

Wait, Hamas used the wall they built to deny their own people a water source, turning fertile land arid and destroying their ability to feed themselves?

[Stu Monty]

Words make a big difference. One is factually accurate, the other isn't.

 

So okay, you've altered the question to more accurately reflect the facts at least.

 

Would life in Gaza or the West Bank be better if Israel weren't occupying/blockading/taking other measures?

 

I presume it probably would, for most people at least, with the proviso that I don't think life under Islamists would be much fun either way.

 

My preference would be for a democratic Palestine, which is obviously not possible under Hamas.

 

I'm not really sure about the purpose of the question though.

 

You were inferring Hamas wouldn't bring people freedom. I apparently had to waste my time pointing out they would bring more than there currently is, which Palestinians might prefer. How is that hard to see?

 

You realise they would probably elect someone you wouldn't like don't you?

[ZonkoVille77]

Wait, Hamas used the wall they built to deny their own people a water source, turning fertile land arid and destroying their ability to feed themselves?

Yes. This is the new version of events. Everything we've known previously is wrong. Thankfully SD is showing us the error of ours ways.

 

Israeli's are good, Palestinians are bad. Mkay...

[Strontium]

You were inferring Hamas wouldn't bring people freedom. I apparently had to waste my time pointing out they would bring more than there currently is, which Palestinians might prefer. How is that hard to see?

 

You realise they would probably elect someone you wouldn't like don't you?

 

No, you're presenting a false dichotomy there. You're making it sound like the only alternative to Israeli blockade/occupation/whatever is Hamas. You're also ignoring the impact that a Hamas government has on the freedom of those living in Israel.

 

So long as the Palestinians elect a government that will respect their neighbours' right to live, I don't especially care who they elect.

 

You do make it sound like Israel has been occupying Gaza and the West Bank forever. Once upon a time, neither of those places were blockaded or occupied. If you had any appreciation of why we got from that state to the current state, I'd get a lot less frustrated myself.

[Anubis]

 

"Er...er...er...er.....LOOK, ISIS!"

[stringvest]

Words make a big difference. One is factually accurate, the other isn't.

 

So okay, you've altered the question to more accurately reflect the facts at least.

 

Would life in Gaza or the West Bank be better if Israel weren't occupying/blockading/taking other measures?

 

I presume it probably would, for most people at least, with the proviso that I don't think life under Islamists would be much fun either way.

 

My preference would be for a democratic Palestine, which is obviously not possible under Hamas.

 

I'm not really sure about the purpose of the question though.

 

So you live in ignorance of what Hamas actually do when they are not not killing hundreds of Israelis?  You have no idea that they build and support the hospitals, schools, pensions and other social infrastructure?

 

Thought so.  

[stringvest]

No, you're presenting a false dichotomy there. You're making it sound like the only alternative to Israeli blockade/occupation/whatever is Hamas. You're also ignoring the impact that a Hamas government has on the freedom of those living in Israel.

 

So long as the Palestinians elect a government that will respect their neighbours' right to live, I don't especially care who they elect.

 

You do make it sound like Israel has been occupying Gaza and the West Bank forever. Once upon a time, neither of those places were blockaded or occupied. If you had any appreciation of why we got from that state to the current state, I'd get a lot less frustrated myself.

 

Does it begin with Z?

[Strontium]

So you live in ignorance of what Hamas actually do when they are not not killing hundreds of Israelis?  You have no idea that they build and support the hospitals, schools, pensions and other social infrastructure?

 

Thought so.

 

Yeah, that kind of is what governments everywhere do, from the Tories to the Nazis.

 

 

Does it begin with Z?

 

Israel isn't going anywhere, get over it.

[stringvest]

Yeah, that kind of is what governments everywhere do, from the Tories to the Nazis.

 

 

 

 

Israel isn't going anywhere, get over it.

 

Israel won't be the Israel we suffer now.  It will be unrecognisable from that cunt state well within my lifetime.  And it will happen despite rather than because of the Israelis and America.

[Strontium]

What suffering does Israel cause you? Are you Palestinian?

[stringvest]

mental, physical, spiritual

[Strontium]

So suffering in other countries doesn't distress you, but suffering in Palestine does?

[Arl arse]

Israel isn't going anywhere, get over it.

http://www.juancole.com/images-ext/2010/03/map-story-of-palestinian-nationhood.jpg

 

Looks to me like Israel is constantly on the move.....

[stringvest]

So suffering in other countries doesn't distress you, but suffering in Palestine does?

 

it does.  I'm not the hypocrite in this exchange.  

[Strontium]

http://www.juancole.com/images-ext/2010/03/map-story-of-palestinian-nationhood.jpg

 

Looks to me like Israel is constantly on the move.....

 

Almost as if events occurred which precipitated territorial changes, isn't it.

 

it does.  I'm not the hypocrite in this exchange.

Funny how you never seem to moan about anyone except Israel.

 

I guess I must be the "hypocrite" for not prioritising Palestinian suffering over and above everyone else's.

[Arl arse]

Almost as if events occurred which precipitated territorial changes, isn't it.

You call them 'events' I call it mass genocide.

[Strontium]

You call them 'events' I call it mass genocide.

 

Yes, I'm sure Israel's neighbours had genocide on their mind when they repeatedly attacked it, fortunately for freedom and democracy they were able to repel the barbarian hordes and ensure that the Middle East retained one functioning liberal democracy.

[Strontium]

http://www.juancole.com/images-ext/2010/03/map-story-of-palestinian-nationhood.jpg]

 

Looks to me like Israel is constantly on the move.....

 

The Israelis are fucking amateurs: